Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[MarkvW]

We'll never know all the other riders that Hein might have helped out. Hein's never going to talk, and we can assume that the riders themselves are not likely to out themselves.

 

[Opalius]

Hrm. Danny Pate is definitely not happy about Armstrong recent accusations towards the UCI and CO. His recent tweet:

"Sick to death of this LA bull****. Either come out with the proof of these cover ups and corruption, or **** off."

Right you are Danny. We want to see LA's evidence too

 

[Briant_Gumble]

Yes, that was also what made the Chicken consider suicide.

You can hardly blame him for thinking like that for a bit.

 

[Bosco10]

Hrm. Danny Pate is definitely not happy about Armstrong recent accusations towards the UCI and CO. His recent tweet:

"Sick to death of this LA bull****. Either come out with the proof of these cover ups and corruption, or **** off."

Right you are Danny. We want to see LA's evidence too

uhhh.. poor lance said it has to be in the proper forum lol

 

[Granville57]

Hrm. Danny Pate is definitely not happy...

Yeah? Well, Pate is doosh. The disrespectful way in which he treats his then-wife (on camera, no less) in the documentery Blood, Sweat + Gears is inexcusable. So f'ck him.




They were seperated by film's end
(It's part of the doc)

 

[Granville57]

Apparently I'm going to have to keep reposting this, as people who are otherwise far too smart are acting far too stupid in regards to this topic.

Armstrong was not handed more severe sanctions just because he is a ***. He was handed more severe sanctions because of the more extensive violations (as listed below). And it was well within USADA's rights to do so (as also explained below).

Should be pretty easy to figure out.
You're welcome.

FFS, this argument has been gaining WAY too much traction lately by people that should, quite frankly, know better. It's not like USADA didn't provide us all with the details behind their decision, ya' know a REASONED DECISION?

It's all right there. There is absolutely no need to employ short-term memory or selective reading when evaluating exactly what actions USADA took against Armstrong and why. IT'S ALL RIGHT THERE!
-----------------

USADA Reasoned Decision
Page 7

II. CHARGES AGAINST LANCE ARMSTRONG

The anti-doping rule violations for which Mr. Armstrong was sanctioned include:

(1) Use and/or attempted use of prohibited substances and/or methods including EPO,
blood transfusions, testosterone, corticosteroids and/or masking agents.
(2) Possession of prohibited substances and/or methods including EPO, blood transfusions and related equipment (such as needles, blood bags, storage containers and other transfusion equipment and blood parameters measuring devices), testosterone, corticosteroids and/or masking agents.15
(3) Trafficking of EPO, testosterone, and/or corticosteroids.
(4) Administration and/or attempted administration to others of EPO, testosterone, 
and/or cortisone.
(5) Assisting, encouraging, aiding, abetting, covering up and other complicity 
involving one or more anti-doping rule violations and/or attempted anti-doping rule violations.
(6) Aggravating circumstances (including multiple rule violations and participated in a sophisticated scheme and conspiracy to dope, encourage and assist others to dope and cover up rule violations) justifying a period of ineligibility greater than the standard sanction.

-----------
Further clarification is provided later in the same document:
-----------

Page 146
VI. EVIDENCE OF ARMSTRONG’S EFFORTS TO SUPPRESS THE TRUTH ABOUT HIS ANTI-DOPING RULE VIOLATIONS

Article 2.8 of the World Anti-Doping Code includes as an anti-doping rule violation, “assisting, encouraging, aiding, abetting, covering up or any other type of complicity involving an anti-doping rule violation or any Attempted anti-doping rule violation.”

Additionally, proof that an athlete “engaged in deceptive or obstructing conduct to avoid the detection or adjudication of an anti-doping rule violation” can be grounds for increasing a sanction. Fraudulent concealment or other efforts to subvert the legal process, such as perjury or witness intimidation can also result in suspension or waiver of the statute of limitations.

Accordingly, in this section USADA discusses some of the evidence of efforts by Armstrong and his entourage to cover up rule violations, suppress the truth, obstruct or subvert the legal process and thereby encourage doping.
---------

The USADA document then provides the specifics behind this reasoning. It's all right there for everyone to read. No mystery. No behavior on the part of USADA that they are not fully entitled to. None.


Allow me to reiterate a few important and pertinent points in all of the above:

"Aggravating circumstances...justifying a period of ineligibility greater than the standard sanction."

"Additionally, proof that an athlete “engaged in deceptive or obstructing conduct to avoid the detection or adjudication of an anti-doping rule violation” can be grounds for increasing a sanction. Fraudulent concealment or other efforts to subvert the legal process, such as perjury or witness intimidation can also result in suspension or waiver of the statute of limitations".







"...can be grounds for increasing a sanction."

 

[sniper]

Yeah? Well, Pate is doosh. The disrespectful way in which he treats his then-wife (on camera, no less) in the documentery Blood, Sweat + Gears is inexcusable. So f'ck him.




They were seperated by film's end
(It's part of the doc)

The aggrerssion in that tweet speaks volumes, me thinks.
what an utter fool.

 

[ChrisE]

I think of all the guys the Federation weren't protecting. The biggest names at the time-Vino, Ullrich, Basso, Landis, etc.

So just as I believe that Ferrari handling The USPS doping program exclusive of any other tour team was a major advantage for many reasons, so was Armstrong's relationship with Hein Verbruggen.

Armstrong could say his doping practices were conservative, they were not if you include all this.

Yes, they all got busted after he retired except for JU and his partying act.

Don't think to hard about why that is. It might throw a wrench in your narrative.

 

[42x16ss]

Yes, they all got busted after he retired except for JU and his partying act.

Don't think to hard about why that is. It might throw a wrench in your narrative.

WTF does Manzano blowing the whistle have to do with Armstrong? Puerto was a police investigation

 

[D-Queued]

Hrm. Danny Pate is definitely not happy about Armstrong recent accusations towards the UCI and CO. His recent tweet:

"Sick to death of this LA bull****. Either come out with the proof of these cover ups and corruption, or **** off."

Right you are Danny. We want to see LA's evidence too

Not arguing with other posters above, but there is some sense in this.

Armstrong the liar has accused Hein of throwing him under the bus.

With a bit of time to reflect on this, it rather looks the other way around. Lance is throwing Hein under the bus.

Not that Hein doesn't deserve it, or that the claim itself is a falsehood. But Lance is driven by Lance, and accusing yet another person or persons with harming him is the consistent narrative.

Once upon a time weren't these guys going to buy the ASO together? I know, that is so 2008.

Dave.

 

[blackcat]

Not arguing with other posters above, but there is some sense in this.

Armstrong the liar has accused Hein of throwing him under the bus.

With a bit of time to reflect on this, it rather looks the other way around. Lance is throwing Hein under the bus.

Not that Hein doesn't deserve it, or that the claim itself is a falsehood. But Lance is driven by Lance, and accusing yet another person or persons with harming him is the consistent narrative.

Once upon a time weren't these guys going to buy the ASO together? I know, that is so 2008.

Dave.

Lance is <strikethru>throwing Hein under the bus</strikethru>

Dave, Dear Wiggo obviously ain't informed you of Clinic memes and idiom.

that is bus-throwundery, or, i like to portmanteu<verb> it, busthrowundery.

whatever it is, some preposition/adverb grammar bs

 

[MarkvW]

So far, our only evidence that the UCI helped Lance cheat are words out of Lance Armstrong's mouth and the Sysmex money donation.

Hein could almost persuade me that Lance is a big fat Liar . . . right up until the point where Hein took Lance's big fat check.

I still kinda have problems with that. . . ..

 

[Opalius]

Who wouldn't...

I think the problem is what the reason behind LA's new crusade is.

Surely it is not solely beneficial to cycling; where/what is Armstrong's carrot?

 

[ChrisE]

WTF does Manzano blowing the whistle have to do with Armstrong? Puerto was a police investigation

Beats me. Ask Berzin, he is the one that tied LA and Verbruggen to riders getting busted from OP. But you are only halfway there.

In the future, to keep logical conversation flow it is best to reply to the person making the claim, bro.

 

[Aapjes]

So far, our only evidence that the UCI helped Lance cheat are words out of Lance Armstrong's mouth and the Sysmex money donation.

Hein could almost persuade me that Lance is a big fat Liar . . . right up until the point where Hein took Lance's big fat check.

I still kinda have problems with that. . . ..

Exactly. "Follow the money". Money trails and their timing is usually a lot more truthful than any witness testimony.

 

[martinvickers]

So far, our only evidence that the UCI helped Lance cheat are words out of Lance Armstrong's mouth and the Sysmex money donation.

Hein could almost persuade me that Lance is a big fat Liar . . . right up until the point where Hein took Lance's big fat check.

I still kinda have problems with that. . . ..

Need to keep up with the story, man ! (I know, i know, I'm only joking as a segue into this)

Verbruggen backtracks on Armstrong claims

Hog, if you're reading - think of a recent conversation - well, the Wermacht have just announced that they won a decisive battle...at Friedrichsfelde...

 

[Puckfiend]

So, Armstrong can't remember the bedside confessional with Frankie and Betsy in the room, and he can't remember details surrounding events involving Emma; but he can remember word for word conversations with Verbruggen. How convenient.

 

[mattghg]

Need to keep up with the story, man ! (I know, i know, I'm only joking as a segue into this)

Verbruggen backtracks on Armstrong claims

Hog, if you're reading - think of a recent conversation - well, the Wermacht have just announced that they won a decisive battle...at Friedrichsfelde...

Hein is not as good a liar as Lance. He can't keep his story straight.

 

[martinvickers]

Hein is not as good a liar as Lance. He can't keep his story straight.

On the contrary, he's an excellent liar. He particularly knows when a lie doesn't have wings - Lance would have kept that crap going while the world laughed, Hein, kung fu liemaster thta he is, is already changing position, ready for attack. Frankly, Hein's lies are roughly equal to a roundhouse kick from Chuck Norris...

 

[thehog]

Need to keep up with the story, man ! (I know, i know, I'm only joking as a segue into this)

Verbruggen backtracks on Armstrong claims

Hog, if you're reading - think of a recent conversation - well, the Wermacht have just announced that they won a decisive battle...at Friedrichsfelde...

Martin it is indeed although Hitler never backtracked. (Only the Italian army!)

I did think it was rather brave of Hein to madly declare Lance was a liar. Only a rousing speech from Churchill can save us now.

I think Armstrong's best defense here is to say although doping was against the rules that the UCI "allowed" doping. That being the case then no rules were broken thus no fraud.

To do this he'll need to dish the dirt.

Hein v Lance will be a mighty battle!

 

[darwin553]

Hein v Lance will be a mighty battle!

Only Lance can be the victor. He has lost pretty much all credibility and has nothing to lose while Hein is holding on to the only shreds of credibility and standing he has left.

 

[mattghg]

Only Lance can be the victor. He has lost pretty much all credibility and has nothing to lose while Hein is holding on to the only shreds of credibility and standing he has left.

Lance has an awful lot of money left to lose, though...

 

[thehog]

Only Lance can be the victor. He has lost pretty much all credibility and has nothing to lose while Hein is holding on to the only shreds of credibility and standing he has left.

Yes but this is Hein. He has no emotion. He owns cycling. He doesn't like when his subordinates attempt an uprising. If Lance takes on Hein and wins then that might give present day cyclists a voice. No!

Hein is actually fairly smart. He dodges bullets wherever he goes. But being a total crackpot and stuck in his old European ways will lead to his ultimate downfall.

Lance will have to blow himself up to take Hein with him.

Is Lance brave enough? Is he a fighter?

 

[thehog]

Lance has an awful lot of money left to lose, though...

No he doesn't. And trust me. No one wants to spend money when there's no more coming in through the door.

And no one likes spending money on a defense. It's only fun when you're the one lodging the suit to submit another to pain.

 

[proffate]

So, Armstrong can't remember the bedside confessional with Frankie and Betsy in the room, and he can't remember details surrounding events involving Emma; but he can remember word for word conversations with Verbruggen. How convenient.

har har har

He also can't remember whether he was or wasn't found positive in '99. Selective memory on that one fateful day.