Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[Race Radio]

If the UCI directs USADA to reduce the ban that seems to me that USADA can only comply. But, I really don't know. And again, the IOC would have to be okay with it.

No, USADA can easily say no. Cookson and Howman agree that USADA is the decision maker when it comes to the length of sanction.

regardless I doubt there will be a conflict, USADA and the UCI are on the same page

 

[thehog]

Yes. There are no rules that apply to Wonderboy. It's the foundation of his athletic career and worked brilliantly. Like Hog posted, he wants to 'get something for himself' out of it anyway.

I'm unclear how a ban reduction would actually work in this situation. If the UCI directs USADA to reduce the ban that seems to me that USADA can only comply. But, I really don't know. And again, the IOC would have to be okay with it.

When I look at the CIRC and Cookson has already stated as such; that in certain circumstances the rule book won't apply. I think they are acknowledging that for this specific era the rules just can't be applied to enmasse doping on epic scales with UCI acceptance.

Be interesting to see what are the outcomes. Cookson appears to want to go down a criminal route and no doubt if Armstrong assists, then he gets 4-8 years.

Tygart doesnt have much choice in the matter considering the 6 month bans he handed out for far less information. Not that he'll object.

But yes, Lance won't speak unless he has ban reduction.

 

[Fausto's Schnauzer]

Lance has actually talked and met Travis several times. Until recently they were still in discussion for a deal but very recently that stopped. Regardless of who he talks to the Feds can get their hands on his testimony via multiple channels. Lance knows this so he will not go under oath with any of them.

Travis is of the opinion that Lance would have little to add that is not already known. Perhaps, but I can think of a few things that could be of value.

It would be good if he exposes some the administrators of the sport. Steve Johnson, Verbruggen, McQuaid, Stapleton, Weisel. All should be concerned.

Current riders would be a key target. He has told friends he has dirt on Horner. Meh.....I would be more interested to hear about Contador. I can't think of any other current top riders he might have something on.

Some staff, like Freddy Viane, could be a target.....but again few that are currently active. Bruyneel is an interesting target, but he doesn't really even deny that he ran a doping program. His defense is all about jurisdiction.

I tend to agree with Travis, doubt Lance has much to add to the discussion......but who knows, he could surprise us.

 

[Digger]

Was good to hear Derval O'Rourke tonight on Off the ball having a go at travis about how hard he was on Lance, yet said gatlin deserved a shot at redemption, after two positives - Gay was also mentioned.

If only lance had wore Rosary beads.

 

[86TDFWinner]

Lance has actually talked and met Travis several times. Until recently they were still in discussion for a deal but very recently that stopped. Regardless of who he talks to the Feds can get their hands on his testimony via multiple channels. Lance knows this so he will not go under oath with any of them.

Travis is of the opinion that Lance would have little to add that is not already known. Perhaps, but I can think of a few things that could be of value.

It would be good if he exposes some the administrators of the sport. Steve Johnson, Verbruggen, McQuaid, Stapleton, Weisel. All should be concerned.

Current riders would be a key target. He has told friends he has dirt on Horner. Meh.....I would be more interested to hear about Contador. I can't think of any other current top riders he might have something on.

Some staff, like Freddy Viane, could be a target.....but again few that are currently active. Bruyneel is an interesting target, but he doesn't really even deny that he ran a doping program. His defense is all about jurisdiction.

I tend to agree with Travis, doubt Lance has much to add to the discussion......but who knows, he could surprise us.

I'd love to see him spew info on: Och/Comical, and a few others(and even more if he has it on McIllvane & the ******s @ Trek), but we can't all have what we want.

 

[DirtyWorks]

...
Be interesting to see what are the outcomes. Cookson appears to want to go down a criminal route and no doubt if Armstrong assists, then he gets 4-8 years.

How would that work exactly? Race in France, rider from somewhere else, UCI in Switzerland and doping not a criminal offense anywhere.

Tough talk from Cookson before the next Vrijman report. Och/Carmichael would be good. However, I think Wiesel, Johnson and the rest of the Tailwind grifters are safe.

I would not be happy to see a reduction in the ban no matter what, but I'm an anonymous Internet w@nker and it's the only way they could keep Armstrong quiet for so long.

 

[Fausto's Schnauzer]

12 Hours of Redemption?

Wonderboy has apparently asked the promoter of a Southern California 12 Hour mountain bike radce if he'd be allowed to attend. The promoter posed the question on Facebook. The sheer cluelessness in the comments is amazing. Wonderboy's PR team has apparently done a very effective job as virtually all of the usual points have been posted. Sad.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

He has told friends he has dirt on Horner.

Wow! Really? That would be awesome.

 

[uspostal]

Wonderboy has apparently asked the promoter of a Southern California 12 Hour mountain bike radce if he'd be allowed to attend. The promoter posed the question on Facebook. The sheer cluelessness in the comments is amazing. Wonderboy's PR team has apparently done a very effective job as virtually all of the usual points have been posted. Sad.

Fausto,
I think its a small band of LA pr factory at work. Most people in the US are of 2 frames of mind, 1 mostly cyclists think he's a piece of crap and should never ride again. 2nd class are people who think they were all doping so who really cares what one doper wants to do anyway. Once he realizes that he's only a drawing card to all these races he'll soon stop going anyway. As far as problems in cycling I'm sure there's more important things than an over the hill old x doping cyclist who wants to kick azz on a bunch of weekend cyclists.

 

[MarkvW]

All Lance needs to do is move to Kazakhstan.

 

[python]

i tend to agree with travis that texas hasn't much to add to what we already learned from his teammates..he must have followed the general and by now well established evolution of blood/epo/steroids doping.

yet, i do believe we dont know everything about his personal doping program and the methods he used to avoid detection. given his relatively modest talent and the facts of his total and long domination, i am convinced texas was on a special, unique program. i have suspected for a long time (still undetectable) designer steroids

THAT, i really would like to confirm. but given the zero credibility i attach to texas' words, i believe he'd still lie even if he somehow arrived at an agreement with travis.

other than THAT i could care less about his love life, his money, his continued legal fights or how much dirt he has on whoever. he's a goner for me, a deflated scumbag who had gotten what he deserved and passed into nothingness.

 

[blackcat]

zing

thats a python smackdown texas

 

[Race Radio]

i tend to agree with travis that texas hasn't much to add to what we already learned from his teammates..he must have followed the general and by now well established evolution of blood/epo/steroids doping.

yet, i do believe we dont know everything about his personal doping program and the methods he used to avoid detection. given his relatively modest talent and the facts of his total and long domination, i am convinced texas was on a special, unique program. i have suspected for a long time (still undetectable) designer steroids

THAT, i really would like to confirm. but given the zero credibility i attach to texas' words, i believe he'd still lie even if he somehow arrived at an agreement with travis.

other than THAT i could care less about his love life, his money, his continued legal fights or how much dirt he has on whoever. he's a goner for me, a deflated scumbag who had gotten what he deserved and passed into nothingness.

Very good points. Lance is never going to tell the whole truth, especially about 2009. The challenge for Lance is Travis knows a lot that is not public.

 

[Race Radio]

Anyone thirsty?

 

[thehog]

i tend to agree with travis that texas hasn't much to add to what we already learned from his teammates..he must have followed the general and by now well established evolution of blood/epo/steroids doping.

yet, i do believe we dont know everything about his personal doping program and the methods he used to avoid detection. given his relatively modest talent and the facts of his total and long domination, i am convinced texas was on a special, unique program. i have suspected for a long time (still undetectable) designer steroids

THAT, i really would like to confirm. but given the zero credibility i attach to texas' words, i believe he'd still lie even if he somehow arrived at an agreement with travis.

other than THAT i could care less about his love life, his money, his continued legal fights or how much dirt he has on whoever. he's a goner for me, a deflated scumbag who had gotten what he deserved and passed into nothingness.

I think most agree Lance knows more about his program than anyone else. And that knowledge he will use as leverage.

I don't disagree he downplays the doping to give the impression he was somewhat natural but his information on others is what will get him a reduced sentence etc.

He'll secure a deal before he talks. No way he talks without some form of benefit. Whilst he is a scumbag there are several who should be a little worried. Many banked on the fact that Armstrong would never talk. Maybe that's about to change.

Let's see.

 

[Benotti69]

Anyone thirsty?

ouch!!!!

10chara........

 

[Benotti69]

i tend to agree with travis that texas hasn't much to add to what we already learned from his teammates..he must have followed the general and by now well established evolution of blood/epo/steroids doping.

yet, i do believe we dont know everything about his personal doping program and the methods he used to avoid detection. given his relatively modest talent and the facts of his total and long domination, i am convinced texas was on a special, unique program. i have suspected for a long time (still undetectable) designer steroids

THAT, i really would like to confirm. but given the zero credibility i attach to texas' words, i believe he'd still lie even if he somehow arrived at an agreement with travis.

other than THAT i could care less about his love life, his money, his continued legal fights or how much dirt he has on whoever. he's a goner for me, a deflated scumbag who had gotten what he deserved and passed into nothingness.

Then Stapleton, Bruyneel, Ferrari, Del Moral and a few others will know what the special unique program was.

Would Bruyneel, Ferrari and Del Moral not use it on others after 2005 when Armstrong called it a day?

 

[Pazuzu]

... given his relatively modest talent and the facts of his total and long domination, i am convinced texas was on a special, unique program. i have suspected for a long time (still undetectable) designer steroids

If that were the case, why would Armstrong mess around with pedestrian PEDs like corticosteroids? Although it's possible he 'upgraded' his doping regime to avoid a repeat of his 1999 positive.

Rather than exotic PEDs, I tend to think that Armstrong's doping advantage was his 'friends-with-benefits' relationship with Hein Verbruggen, i.e., advance knowledge of tests, suspicious test results being swept under the rug, UCI pressure brought on Lance's competitors to to dial back their own doping, etc.

 

[Bluenote]

I tend to think that Armstrong's doping advantage was his 'friends-with-benefits' relationship with Hein Verbruggen

Christ, I will never be able to erase that visual. Thanks, thanks for that.

 

[python]

Then Stapleton, Bruyneel, Ferrari, Del Moral and a few others will know what the special unique program was.

Would Bruyneel, Ferrari and Del Moral not use it on others after 2005 when Armstrong called it a day?

i am only speculating, but i dont think all those creeps you mentioned would be equally informed of all the details of his unique program AT ALL TIMES. bru ? certaily 100% informed ALWAYS. ferrari ? perhaps too. certainly 100% informed in the early years. but i do not exclude another doping expert - the name that likely was not mentioned publicly - to have a hand in fine tuning his program. this person could be not necessarily connected to pro cycling and may even not be known to ferrari. i dont exclude texas keeping his know-how compartmentalized to ensure the lasting advantage.

@pazuzu
one does not have to exclude another. while i have absolutely no doubt that bruggen helped him, only god knows how many times, i'd consider relying only on the corrupt uci head too dangerous and therefore insecure. remember, all wada labs are independent and only contracted. also, there are layers and layers of international, sometimes hostile to the uci intermediaries. it's too uncertain to conceal MANY positives by the Results Managing Authority. 1-2 perhaps. may be 1-2 more. but a chain of positives - NO WAY. therefore, texas had to rely on a sophisticated, complex program.

 

[Benotti69]

i am only speculating, but i dont think all those creeps you mentioned would be equally informed of all the details of his unique program AT ALL TIMES. bru ? certaily 100% informed ALWAYS. ferrari ? perhaps too. certainly 100% informed in the early years. but i do not exclude another doping expert - the name that likely was not mentioned publicly - to have a hand in fine tuning his program. this person could be not necessarily connected to pro cycling and may even not be known to ferrari. i dont exclude texas keeping his know-how compartmentalized to ensure the lasting advantage.

For a guy who boasted so much, it would be uncharacteristic for him not to boast of a secret program. But as it is speculation, maybe Texas did keep schtum about it.

 

[DirtyWorks]

there are layers and layers of international, sometimes hostile to the uci intermediaries.

No, there isn't. The system is set up so the anti-doping authority (many times the UCI) is THE authority.

it's too uncertain to conceal MANY positives by the Results Managing Authority.

No, it's not. The anti-doping authority has the power to open cases, or not. There are no consequences for not opening cases. There are no metrics reported how many positives have not resulted in cases for the ABP.

There are metrics for non-sanctioned urine tests. The UCI did not process at least 90 event positives last year. Apparently all TUE's. Funny how so many podiums end up having TUE's.

 

[DirtyWorks]

If that were the case, why would Armstrong mess around with pedestrian PEDs like corticosteroids? Although it's possible he 'upgraded' his doping regime to avoid a repeat of his 1999 positive.

Remember the guy had insanely high T/E ratio at various times in his career and never tested positive too. Och/Brunyeel class doping that works. Carmichael's kind of doping didn't work that well.

Rather than exotic PEDs, I tend to think that Armstrong's doping advantage was his 'friends-with-benefits' relationship with Hein Verbruggen, i.e., advance knowledge of tests, suspicious test results being swept under the rug, UCI pressure brought on Lance's competitors to to dial back their own doping, etc.

Emphatically, yes. Also remember the owner of the US federation Thom Wiesel was the owner of USPS. So, national-level doping was guaranteed to never test positive. Ever.

Hein was always okay with doping. Always. Until he wanted someone gone. Yes, he was at some point an integral part of the fraud as the eternal defense of Wonderboy indicated. It would be interesting if we found out how that worked. But, likely never will.

 

[python]

No, there isn't. The system is set up so the anti-doping authority (many times the UCI) is THE authority.



No, it's not. The anti-doping authority has the power to open cases, or not. There are no consequences for not opening cases. There are no metrics reported how many positives have not resulted in cases for the ABP.

There are metrics for non-sanctioned urine tests. The UCI did not process at least 90 event positives last year. Apparently all TUE's. Funny how so many podiums end up having TUE's.

remember, my point was that relying only and solely on the corrupt uci to beat the tests is horribly unreliable. as corrupt as the uci was. as for how positive tests are managed, opened or closed - we have been several times through this in other threads - i am quite well informed. you will have to take my word or not.

thus we'll have to disagree. you're oversimplifying.

 

[DirtyWorks]

remember, my point was that relying only and solely on the corrupt uci to beat the tests is horribly unreliable. as corrupt as the uci was. as for how positive tests are managed, opened or closed - we have been several times through this in other threads - i am quite well informed. you will have to take my word or not.

thus we'll have to disagree. you're oversimplifying.

I see your point. I can be too literal.

They are okay with riders doping, until one day they are not. ex. Roman Kreuziger. Menchov's case is another example.