Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[Benotti69]

Re:

So, has Lance found redemption in an unshaven podcast?

Nah, just some guys who are using him as clickbait.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Re:

19:20

https://youtu.be/0E7G5xGVZXk

Loving Lances podcast at the moment

He called it. I think most pro's could see that coming. He just called it.

 

[Alpe73]

Re: Re:

So, has Lance found redemption in an unshaven podcast?

Nah, just some guys who are using him as clickbait.

Nah, outperforming The Cycling Podcast + Rapha, Cycling News Podcasts, Velonews Podcasts, Cycling Tips Podcasts, Race Radio and Off the Balll ... combined! Ouch! :lol:

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

So, has Lance found redemption in an unshaven podcast?

Nah, just some guys who are using him as clickbait.

Nah, outperforming The Cycling Podcast + Rapha, Cycling News Podcasts, Velonews Podcasts, Cycling Tips Podcasts, Race Radio and Off the Balll ... combined! Ouch! :lol:

Not that many cycling fans, so as i said it is car crash podcasting, people rubber necking to hear if the biggest sporting fraud has anything to say.

Poor Armstrong was on his way to a political career via Governor of Texas, then possible POTUS, now podcasting, not even on TV and heck there are at least 64 channels and there is nothing on. :lol:

Now where can i get a goddamn yella wrist band these days......

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Re:

So, has Lance found redemption in an unshaven podcast?

Nah, just some guys who are using him as clickbait.

Nah, outperforming The Cycling Podcast + Rapha, Cycling News Podcasts, Velonews Podcasts, Cycling Tips Podcasts, Race Radio and Off the Balll ... combined! Ouch! :lol:

Not that many cycling fans, so as i said it is car crash podcasting, people rubber necking to hear if the biggest sporting fraud has anything to say.

Poor Armstrong was on his way to a political career via Governor of Texas, then possible POTUS, now podcasting, not even on TV and heck there are at least 64 channels and there is nothing on. :lol:

Now where can i get a goddamn yella wrist band these days......

Honest question, have you listened to it? I don't begrudge anyone not wanting to hear what this guy has to say after all the horrible stuff he's done, but I have a hard time reconciling this analysis with the content of this podcast, which is actually very good.

 

[Benotti69]

Yes i have listened.

He dont come across as a 7 time winner to me and the most disappointing aspect is he is not giving, which a guy in his position could, the real inside into riding a TdF and where and when the doping goes down.

 

[red_flanders]

Re:

Yes i have listened.

He dont come across as a 7 time winner to me and the most disappointing aspect is he is not giving, which a guy in his position could, the real inside into riding a TdF and where and when the doping goes down.

Pretty unrealistic expectation regarding doping IMO. Glad you've at least heard it.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

So, has Lance found redemption in an unshaven podcast?

Nah, just some guys who are using him as clickbait.

Nah, outperforming The Cycling Podcast + Rapha, Cycling News Podcasts, Velonews Podcasts, Cycling Tips Podcasts, Race Radio and Off the Balll ... combined! Ouch! :lol:

Race Radio must be crying over the podcast being successful. I'm sure he's trying to find reasons why it's bad and not as successful as the iTunes state.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Yes i have listened.

He dont come across as a 7 time winner to me and the most disappointing aspect is he is not giving, which a guy in his position could, the real inside into riding a TdF and where and when the doping goes down.

Pretty unrealistic expectation regarding doping IMO. Glad you've at least heard it.

Yep it is unrealistic as Armstrong still sees himself as part of something that doesn't exist for him. He is just in the 'caught doping but ostracised club', not part of the sport.

I dont see how Armstrong has anything to lose over tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Unless him and Bruyneel are concocting something for Bruyneel's return to the sport, which might be as successful as Manolo Saiz's is.

 

[red_flanders]

It's simply not what most people want to hear.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

It's simply not what most people want to hear.

Glad not to be part of the herd.

 

[Boeing]

I'm not sure about redemption and what not and if that is even his intention, which I doubt, but he is on point.


(especially regarding Jens being UN-listenable)

and Boulder dude!!!

 

[The Hegelian]

I think the desire to turn Armstrong into some distinct category of moral evil, is itself an expression of moral evil.

Namely, a basic failure to understand human beings as complex mixes of virtue and vice - which goes alongside a demand that humans should be all virtue and no vice.

Those who uphold that standard are hoisted on their own petard: they themselves demonstrate the vice of hatred and the lack of any kind of virtue of compassion or tolerance for those who have done some sh*t things in their lives. So it's a moral standard of: everyone ought to be a moral saint, except me.

 

[Alpe73]

Re:

I think the desire to turn Armstrong into some distinct category of moral evil, is itself an expression of moral evil.

Namely, a basic failure to understand human beings as complex mixes of virtue and vice - which goes alongside a demand that humans should be all virtue and no vice.

Those who uphold that standard are hoisted on their own petard: they themselves demonstrate the vice of hatred and the lack of any kind of virtue of compassion or tolerance for those who have done some sh*t things in their lives. So it's a moral standard of: everyone ought to be a moral saint, except me.

After 41/2 years and 14,000 posts on this thread ... this is a most timely and compelling observation of organics.

 

[yaco]

Have companies like Lotto Soudal or FDJ or Lotto NLM Jumbo or their previous incarnations sued their teams for doping. All these teams are effectively government organisations.

 

[StryderHells]

Re:

Have companies like Lotto Soudal or FDJ or Lotto NLM Jumbo or their previous incarnations sued their teams for doping. All these teams are effectively government organisations.

It would be difficult for the dutch government to go after Lotto Jumbo seeing as the team wide doping program ws when they were sponsored by Robobank. As to the Belgian Lotto and FDJ, while they have had doping positives has it been proven they had a team wide doping program? (personally I think they had one) Isn't that how the US Government is going after the ex US Postal team. And anyway what point are you trying to make?

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Have companies like Lotto Soudal or FDJ or Lotto NLM Jumbo or their previous incarnations sued their teams for doping. All these teams are effectively government organisations.

It would be difficult for the dutch government to go after Lotto Jumbo seeing as the team wide doping program ws when they were sponsored by Robobank. As to the Belgian Lotto and FDJ, while they have had doping positives has it been proven they had a team wide doping program? (personally I think they had one) Isn't that how the US Government is going after the ex US Postal team. And anyway what point are you trying to make?

The point I am making is that teams sponsored by Government affiliates have a history of doping, but only the US Government wants to sue for damages. Why would the US Government be any different to other countries.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Have companies like Lotto Soudal or FDJ or Lotto NLM Jumbo or their previous incarnations sued their teams for doping. All these teams are effectively government organisations.

It would be difficult for the dutch government to go after Lotto Jumbo seeing as the team wide doping program ws when they were sponsored by Robobank. As to the Belgian Lotto and FDJ, while they have had doping positives has it been proven they had a team wide doping program? (personally I think they had one) Isn't that how the US Government is going after the ex US Postal team. And anyway what point are you trying to make?

The point I am making is that teams sponsored by Government affiliates have a history of doping, but only the US Government wants to sue for damages. Why would the US Government be any different to other countries.

Becuase the damages are tripled.

Because the USA is a litigious society and when people feel wronged they automatically sue, look at Armstrong he ran to his lawyers every time someone said something about doping.

Because Armstrong is the biggest sporting fraud (currently till they catch Froome) in history and they can use that to turn peoples heads away from other problems plaguing USPS.

In other words plenty of reasons.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

Re:

So, has Lance found redemption in an unshaven podcast?

There is no redemption without contrition, and Pharmstrong has been anything but contrite. He had his opportunity for redemption when he was asked to reveal all that he knew about pro cycling's doping culture, and chose chose omertà over the integrity of the sport that had made him rich and famous.

Goethe said, “You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him.” Pharmstrong has a track record of treating underlings who refuse to be complicit in his criminal enterprise as if they were dog *** on his shoe. He is a pariah and should be being shunned, not admired. That he insists on remaining a public figure is only further evidence of his hubris, narcissistic nature and utter lack of empathy. You're fawning over a messianic who would visit his rage on you the minute you stopped worshiping at his feet.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

Re: Re:

The point I am making is that teams sponsored by Government affiliates have a history of doping, but only the US Government wants to sue for damages. Why would the US Government be any different to other countries.

Becuase the damages are tripled.

Because the USA is a litigious society and when people feel wronged they automatically sue, look at Armstrong he ran to his lawyers every time someone said something about doping.

Because Armstrong is the biggest sporting fraud (currently till they catch Froome) in history and they can use that to turn peoples heads away from other problems plaguing USPS....

Because karma is a beyotch.

 

[The Hegelian]

Re: Re:

So, has Lance found redemption in an unshaven podcast?

There is no redemption without contrition, and Pharmstrong has been anything but contrite. He had his opportunity for redemption when he was asked to reveal all that he knew about pro cycling's doping culture, and chose chose omertà over the integrity of the sport that had made him rich and famous.

Goethe said, “You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him.” Pharmstrong has a track record of treating underlings who refuse to be complicit in his criminal enterprise as if they were dog *** on his shoe. He is a pariah and should be being shunned, not admired. That he insists on remaining a public figure is only further evidence of his hubris, narcissistic nature and utter lack of empathy. You're fawning over a messianic who would visit his rage on you the minute you stopped worshiping at his feet.

In my book, his biggest moral crime was the constant, intense and very public lying. Second biggest was his use of power to destroy less powerful people (which was obviously connected with the first issue). I reckon he expressed genuine contrition for those, especially the latter.

If someone expresses genuine contrition, and someone else refuses to acknowledge it - the moral problem is with the someone else. It might be gratifying to shun a public figure, and turn them into a pariah - but what is at the root of that gratification? Is it really something moral, some glimmer of nobility or justice, some spark of the good within you? What ordains you to morally judge another being so definitively, without even knowing them?

For the record, I think there's clearly some narcissism in LA, and maybe hubris. But when I look into the human world, I see an ocean of those things - why must he be singled out alone as the one who failed to be a saint?

 

[aphronesis]

That he lied is utterly irrelevant (given the constricts of the sports; and US corporate, political, domestic ethos). I'd take your second point as the only one of salience: abuse of media privilege, civil juridics, etc.

Oddly the the moral stalwarts of this thread aren't carpet bombing the threads of the other known dopers, "frauds", liars. Someone brought up the Dutch cases recently.

 

[Bolder]

Re:

That he lied is utterly irrelevant (given the constricts of the sports; and US corporate, political, domestic ethos). I'd take your second point as the only one of salience: abuse of media privilege, civil juridics, etc.

Oddly the the moral stalwarts of this thread aren't carpet bombing the threads of the other known dopers, "frauds", liars. Someone brought up the Dutch cases recently.

It has always been thus. Then again, he had by far the farthest to fall, if that makes any sense. And he very publicly wrapped himself in the cloak of cancer survivor. What grates the most is that having a potentially terminal illness, for most people, should bring about a time of moral clarity and honesty. For LA it was just the opposite, or perhaps business as usual...

My father died of cancer after a two-year battle. It was horrible, the worst thing by far in my life. My mother had a Livestrong bracelet. Think about that for a bit.

As for any LA litigation, I don't particularly like the US attorney's reasoning about fraud, given that baseball has a federal antitrust exemption, and yet teams are not held accountable for sporting fraud when it's revealed that one of their stars was on the gear. Why is the US not suing the SF Giants after Balco/Barry Bonds? Or the Yankess given what we know about A-Rod?

I'm just fine with LA facing a raft of civil suits from lawyers who eat what they kill.

 

[Martin]

Re:

.........i wish lance a long and healthy life...................wish he would disappear though taking those 7 jerseys

to a luxury beach side residence...far from here

Mark L

a stinky jail instead...
But I don't think it is the doping why he should go to jail /for that matter he should only lost all properties he gained/, I found much more severe the way how he destroyed other's people life.

 

[aphronesis]

Re: Re:

That he lied is utterly irrelevant (given the constricts of the sports; and US corporate, political, domestic ethos). I'd take your second point as the only one of salience: abuse of media privilege, civil juridics, etc.

Oddly the the moral stalwarts of this thread aren't carpet bombing the threads of the other known dopers, "frauds", liars. Someone brought up the Dutch cases recently.

It has always been thus. Then again, he had by far the farthest to fall, if that makes any sense. And he very publicly wrapped himself in the cloak of cancer survivor. What grates the most is that having a potentially terminal illness, for most people, should bring about a time of moral clarity and honesty. For LA it was just the opposite, or perhaps business as usual...

My father died of cancer after a two-year battle. It was horrible, the worst thing by far in my life. My mother had a Livestrong bracelet. Think about that for a bit.

As for any LA litigation, I don't particularly like the US attorney's reasoning about fraud, given that baseball has a federal antitrust exemption, and yet teams are not held accountable for sporting fraud when it's revealed that one of their stars was on the gear. Why is the US not suing the SF Giants after Balco/Barry Bonds? Or the Yankess given what we know about A-Rod?

I'm just fine with LA facing a raft of civil suits from lawyers who eat what they kill.

I watched my grandmother die from botched surgical prelims of a tumor removal. It was slow and unsettling. But inevitable. Many posting to this thread over the years have had their own story to relate. (I didn't come to this one for mine.)

Chronologically, I can't buy what you're saying. Given the post 80s climate in the US, I can see how someone supercharged and ran with that. Subconsciously, unconsciously, managerially, whatever you want. Lance is Lance. He also enmeshed himself in multiple machineries that made him more than he is, and, that exceeded him. I would think everyone has better things to do than to sit and make him the scourge of cycling. Or make it a bit worse. All the objections I hear are common to everyone.

But hey. Lots of people don't fault the church and the people it attracts.

Poster Rhubroma would say you can't subscribe to a daily media cheapening of death and then object when someone capitalizes it.

Or, back to me, decline to see how that capitalization took place.