Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[thirteen]

Aspen is about as upscale as you can get in the U.S. Haven for the wealthy. Quit guessing about a place you never been.

been there, done that... it's just as likely that he's right.

Haven was there too? Wish I had of been there to see that.

 

[ChrisE]

So after Outside have gone to all the trouble of stalking out LA and predicting his return and that he was going to be sitting at the bar at the exact time Tyler felt 'the urge' they then miss it completely by sitting at the patio enjoying dessert?

Is Cache Cache the only place to eat in Aspen? Did TH know LA hung out there alot? An argument can be made that TH went to fark with LA.

Anybody can eat whereever they like and shouldn't be harrassed, if that is what happened. Yeah, I say "if". I don't trust the media in this country as far as I can throw them. And though I am waffling from what I said upthread I still find it hard to believe LA would do this. Not because he is not an a-hole, but because of the legal ramifications.

This will all come out in the wash. Until then not too much to get excited about IMO.

 

[Race Radio]

all you really have to have is the # of his jet

It is indeed easy to trace the movements of most commercial and private jets. There are websites, like flightaware, that you can do this easily......that is of course if the owner of the plane has not made a special request to make the public tracking of their tail number off limits. Armstrong's tail number, N7LA, is marked as private. You cannot trace it.

Wonder what he is trying to hide?

 

[ChrisE]

It is indeed easy to trace the movements of most commercial and private jets. There are websites, like flightaware, that you can do this easily......that is of course if the owner of the plane has not made a special request to make the public tracking of their tail number off limits. Armstrong's tail number, N7LA, is marked as private. You cannot trace it.

Wonder what he is trying to hide?

I wouldn't want mine public either if I was famous. Nothing to hide, just not into having my whereabouts easily obtained by the media.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Is Cache Cache the only place to eat in Aspen? Did TH know LA hung out there alot? An argument can be made that TH went to fark with LA.

Anybody can eat whereever they like and shouldn't be harrassed, if that is what happened. Yeah, I say "if". I don't trust the media in this country as far as I can throw them. And though I am waffling from what I said upthread I still find it hard to believe LA would do this. Not because he is not an a-hole, but because of the legal ramifications.

This will all come out in the wash. Until then not too much to get excited about IMO.

According to tripadvisor there are 160 restaurants in Aspen and I have not seen it anywhere that Cache Cache was a LA hangout before last Saturday. In fact the Japanese restaurant Matsuhia appears to be his preferred restaurant.

More importantly - this place was booked by Outside and Tyler would have assumed LA was out of town as the event in Tennessee was well publicized.

I would have assumed it was a chance encounter until Larner said that she let LA know Hamilton was eating there - and even then LA should not have talked to him.

 

[D-Queued]

So let me get this straight. LA rides a 100-mile fundraiser in Franklin, TN. Flies back to Aspen the same day just to hunt down TH at a favourite restaurant of his? A reporter and editors from Outside at a eatery next door. Do you think they might have had a view of the patio. How could Armstrong "keep the home field advantage?" LA must be some kind of evil wizard if he had the power to force TH and crew (spell bound) to his turf.

The truth is TH and his friends from Outside look to be the ones seeking out Armstrong in this case. Outside reporter Abe Streep never mentions if he was "working" during this foray into Armstrong country. I worked almost 20 years as a journalist. I find it hard to believe the Streep and Outside where not their for a reason. We will see if Outside gets a cover story out of this one.

One of the reasons I left the trade is that too many, but not all, reporters and some editors where approuching stories as already written and seeking quotes and events that already fit their narrative. Journalist do poke around. They have to. I will always look on this one though as suspicious. I doubt they didn't know that the Cache Cache was not a LA hang out. Reporters live and die by tips and information that lead to a story. There is nothing wrong with this, unless your using information to create a story. I doubt we will ever know the full part Outside and Streep played in this affair. Where they looking to place TH in the way of LA?

None of us where there. The exact events reported should not be taken as fact until something more concrete comes up.

So after Outside have gone to all the trouble of stalking out LA and predicting his return and that he was going to be sitting at the bar at the exact time Tyler felt 'the urge' they then miss it completely by sitting at the patio enjoying dessert?

Not only that, not a single one of these "Reporters and some editors" either bothered to ask Armstrong for an interview or engaged him in a conversation. Not even a cell phone picture.

They did pay the bill, though.

Pretty expensive example of press negligence if it was all about a focus on Armstrong.

Billythekid - in your own "20 years as a journalist" was this what you did? Did you commonly show up for the interview and then not bother asking any questions? While you lay stalking your celebrities, did you forget to take the picture?

If they really wanted to get him, surely one of the "Reporters" would have contacted Armstrong themselves, tweeted, emailed, texted... rather than Jodi Larner? Surely they would have taken Lance's picture at the 'scene of the crime'?

Nope, your press lying in wait argument is specious. In fact, it is so obvious that this is not the case that we are back to the obvious. It went down just like Tyler said it did. The only difference between the two narratives is that Armstrong seems to infer that he didn't threaten Tyler.

What actually happened:

Lance showed up in spite of being warned by the owner of the restaurant, and accosted Tyler.

Tyler's group, which included "Reporters and some editors" were so surprised and flummoxed that they didn't even bother to take a snapshot.

Dave.

 

[ChrisE]

According to tripadvisor there are 160 restaurants in Aspen and I have not seen it anywhere that Cache Cache was a LA hangout before last Saturday. In fact the Japanese restaurant Matsuhia appears to be his preferred restaurant.

More importantly - this place was booked by Outside and Tyler would have assumed LA was out of town as the event in Tennessee was well publicized.

I would have assumed it was a chance encounter until Larner said that she let LA know Hamilton was eating there - and even then LA should not have talked to him.

You don't know who knew he was a regular there. You are not the mecca of all things to know, though I admit you make me think at times. Kudos you are higher on my respect list than benotti or berzin.

The owner is LA's buddy, and I would bet in cycling circles it was not big secret that he went there.

And, I didn't know where LA was at so how publicized was it? Of course I just cruise CN, ratemybody.com, and fark so maybe I am not looking in the right locations. You think they checked his schedule to know whether they could go to this restaurant? If there are 160 restaurants in Aspen, the chance that LA would show up if he is in town was what .6%?

You contradict your argument btw when you insinuate TH thought it was ok to book there cuz LA was out of town while saying it was not known LA went there alot.....

I don't really have much care about this, but I find the whole thing interesting because of the legal aspect. I'm not part of the *gasp* LA was mean to TH crowd, who I am sure would have an opposite opinion if it was found out that TH was the actual aggressor here. Hypocrisy runs amok in the clinic when LA is involved.

I freely admit I don't know what happened and I admitted upthread I am skeptical of things that show up in the paper, especially when there is not any corraborating people around singing the same tune.

 

[ChrisE]

And before anyone has an "a-ha" moment, the reason the document is dated 2005 is because it is an Application for Certificate of Authority for Tailwaind to operate as a corporation in the state of Texas. The original date of incorporattion, back in Delaware, is June 25, 2002.

Armstrong was already a director prior to Tailwind seeking authority to operate in texas in 2005.

This is a post a few days old, but is the Tailwind doc from 2002 in Delaware in the public domain? If not, why not?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

You don't know who knew he was a regular there. You are not the mecca of all things to know, though I admit you make me think at times. Kudos you are higher on my respect list than benotti or berzin.

The owner is LA's buddy, and I would bet in cycling circles it was not big secret that he went there.

And, I didn't know where LA was at so how publicized was it? Of course I just cruise CN, ratemybody.com, and fark so maybe I am not looking in the right locations. You think they checked his schedule to know whether they could go to this restaurant? If there are 160 restaurants in Aspen, the chance that LA would show up if he is in town was what .6%?

You contradict your argument btw when you insinuate TH thought it was ok to book there cuz LA was out of town while saying it was not known LA went there alot.....

I don't really have much care about this, but I find the whole thing interesting because of the legal aspect. I'm not part of the *gasp* LA was mean to TH crowd, who I am sure would have an opposite opinion if it was found out that TH was the actual aggressor here. Hypocrisy runs amok in the clinic when LA is involved.

I freely admit I don't know what happened and I admitted upthread I am skeptical of things that show up in the paper, especially when there is not any corraborating people around singing the same tune.

I wrote quite clearly that it was Outside who would have booked.

On Armstrong's twitter he announced that he would be away as he was at the opening of the stadium in Kansas on Friday and it was announced a week before the event that he was riding in Tennessee on the Saturday.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

This is a post a few days old, but is the Tailwind doc from 2002 in Delaware in the public domain? If not, why not?

Because Delaware do not have their records available by electronic means for 2002 filings:

If you are requesting the $20 detailed information option, this application will not return actual images of the documents on record. This application will return a page listing the 5 most recent filings, franchise tax assessment, total authorized shares if applicable and tax due. Officer and Director names and addresses are maintained on the images of the annual reports and are not available through this application.

https://delecorp.delaware.gov/tin/controller

 

[ChrisE]

Because Delaware do not have their records available by electronic means for 2002 filings:


https://delecorp.delaware.gov/tin/controller

Well that sux, doesn't it? Is there proof that this document exists?

Whether or not he was an owner is the crux of the issue of course.

I wrote quite clearly that it was Outside who would have booked.

On Armstrong's twitter he announced that he would be away as he was at the opening of the stadium in Kansas on Friday and it was announced a week before the event that he was riding in Tennessee on the Saturday.

Outside and TH are not entities on an island totally clueless to one another.

Again, even if LA was in town there was a .6% random chance he would show up at Cache if everybody was totally clueless about his dining habits. Why would whether or not he was in town influence where Outside/TH ate dinner?

 

[MacRoadie]

Well that sux, doesn't it? Is there proof that this document exists?

Whether or not he was an owner is the crux of the issue of course.

Well, the Texas application prepared by Tailwaind represents that it exists and that all the information they have provided is accurate.

Basically, the texas app says "This is our company, it was incorporated in Delaware in 2002, and these are the officers and directors. We'd like to do business in Texas based on our current standing as a Delaware corporation."

It still doesn't say WHEN Armstrong became a director, just that he was one beginning at some point in time prior to the filing of the Texas application.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Well that sux, doesn't it?

Whether or not he was an owner is the crux of the issue of course.

The document I showed earlier (from Texas) has Armstrong as an officer.

Outside and TH are not entities on an island totally clueless to one another.

Again, even if LA was in town there was a .6% random chance he would show up at Cache if everybody was totally clueless about his dining habits. Why would whether or not he was in town influence where Outside/TH ate dinner?

No idea what you are on about.

I have already said (IMO) it was a chance encounter - however LA was informed that Hamilton was there and should have ignored him.

 

[MacRoadie]

Again, even if LA was in town there was a .6% random chance he would show up at Cache if everybody was totally clueless about his dining habits. Why would whether or not he was in town influence where Outside/TH ate dinner?

And once he was specifically told by Jodi Larner (by phone, at the curb, at the front door, wherever) that Hamilton was already there, there was a 100% chance the whole thing could have been avoided had he just went somewhere else. Some fancy Japanese restaurant, Mickey D's, wherever.

 

[ChrisE]

Well, the Texas application prepared by Tailwaind represents that it exists and that all the information they have provided is accurate.

Basically, the texas app says "This is our company, it was incorporated in Delaware in 2002, and these are the officers and directors. We'd like to do business in Texas based on our current standing as a Delaware corporation."

It still doesn't say WHEN Armstrong became a director, just that he was one beginning at some point in time prior to the filing of the Texas application.

Thanks Mac. I just did a search on your posts because I remembered you said there was an application in Delaware earlier than the Texas one that is in public domain. It made me curious at the time but my mind wandered and I forgot to reply to your post.

Yeah, if he was an owner he is in trouble. I still think he will not plea, though. If the altercation in cache happened like most want to believe, that to me is just more proof he will go down fighting.

 

[ChrisE]

No idea what you are on about.

I have already said (IMO) it was a chance encounter - however LA was informed that Hamilton was there and should have ignored him.

You said upthread it was not common knowledge that LA went there. Then you say it was ok for them to book there because LA was thought to be out of town. Those are inconsistent statements because why would they care if he was in town or not to book in that random restaurant, not known to be frequented by LA?

Regardless, my whole argument (which I really don't have alot of energy behind because nobody will really know what happened, unless something else like a video emerges) is based around LA not being this stupid. Even if Outside/TH knew LA was likely to be there he still should have walked away as Mac says. What Outside/TH knew about LA's whereabouts or his dining habits is irrelevant. If he did what is being alleged then he is loosing it.

The document I showed earlier (from Texas) has Armstrong as an officer

Yes, I know that. He was an officer in 2005 per that document, after the USPS years which I would assume is pretty important distinction to be made if part of the investigation is about defrauding the US govt.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Well, the Texas application prepared by Tailwaind represents that it exists and that all the information they have provided is accurate.

Basically, the texas app says "This is our company, it was incorporated in Delaware in 2002, and these are the officers and directors. We'd like to do business in Texas based on our current standing as a Delaware corporation."

It still doesn't say WHEN Armstrong became a director, just that he was one beginning at some point in time prior to the filing of the Texas application.

Even though the Delaware documents are not available online it does give information on the last 5 transactions: (from a previous post)

FILING HISTORY (Last 5 Filings)
Seq Document Code Description No. of pages Filing Date
(mm/dd/yyyy) Filing Time Effective Date
(mm/dd/yyyy)

1 0275 Dissolution 2 12/31/2007 14:36 12/31/2007

2 0245S Restated; Stock 16 10/18/2002 09:00 10/18/2002

3 0245 Restated; Domestic 17 07/16/2002 09:00 07/16/2002

4 0251S Merger; Surv; Stock Amend 17 07/16/2002 09:00 07/16/2002

5 0102S Incorp Delaware Stock Co. 2 06/25/2002 09:00 06/25/2002

Before dissolution all of the transactions are from 2002 - so it is obvious that Armstrong was a Director from at least then.

 

[ChrisE]

Even though the Delaware documents are not available online it does give information on the last 5 transactions: (from a previous post)

Before dissolution all of the transactions are from 2002 - so it is obvious that Armstrong was a Director from at least then.

I'm still not following. They just showed Tailwind filings, not the makeup of the company????

 

[thehog]

I didn't say link, I said source. Being told something by someone who witnessed it, for example, is a source.

If you don't give any indication at all as to where you have it from, it leads one to think that it was invented.

Susan

The bar area was "upgraded" and built in 2009 with some local investment. You'd think of going to all trouble of building an entire bar area (they bought the land to expand into) they'd install functioning cameras. At least the investors would ask for them to be working because they invested in the property.

btw the yellow menu's look good... yes yellow menus.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

You said upthread it was not common knowledge that LA went there. Then you say it was ok for them to book there because LA was thought to be out of town. Those are inconsistent statements because why would they care if he was in town or not to book in that random restaurant, not known to be frequented by LA?

Regardless, my whole argument (which I really don't have alot of energy behind because nobody will really know what happened, unless something else like a video emerges) is based around LA not being this stupid. Even if Outside/TH knew LA was likely to be there he still should have walked away as Mac says. What Outside/TH knew about LA's whereabouts or his dining habits is irrelevant. If he did what is being alleged then he is loosing it.

Nice try - "they" are Outside magazine. "He" is Tyler.

Armstrong has done this before by contacting people just before the SCA case. Why do you think Armstrong is not this stupid?
His hubris and confrontational personality are well known and he may have thought Hamilton as a pushover - and he may not have known that Hamilton was with journalists and that their encounter would become public.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I'm still not following. They just showed Tailwind filings, not the makeup of the company????

No - they show when stock was amended which would be when people got involved, all those transactions were in 2002.

 

[ChrisE]

No - they show when stock was amended which would be when people got involved, all those transactions were in 2002.

And it is possible LA was not an owner in 2002. That is your opinion, which may turn out to be true. I have no opinion, I will wait for the facts. Of course hopefully we will eventually see.

Armstrong has done this before by contacting people just before the SCA case. Why do you think Armstrong is not this stupid?
His hubris and confrontational personality are well known and he may have thought Hamilton as a pushover - and he may not have known that Hamilton was with journalists and that their encounter would become public.

What would he have gained by confronting TH? Nothing. What would he have "pushed" TH over on? 60 minutes was in the past, his GJ testimony was in the past. If TH changes what he said to the GJ during a potential trial due to LA pressure, TH would go to jail.

Maybe he is that stupid. It just boggles my mind if he is. It is a new day, and what he did during SCA was a different game. We all may push the envelope until the stakes get too high. I wouldn't drive as fast as I do if speeding tickets were $10000.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

And it is possible LA was not an owner in 2002. That is your opinion, which may turn out to be true. I have no opinion, I will wait for the facts. Of course hopefully we will eventually see.

How?
If Armstrong was to become a director the documents would have to be updated, there is nothing in the filling after 2002.

What would he have gained by confronting TH? Nothing. What would he have "pushed" TH over on? 60 minutes was in the past, his GJ testimony was in the past. If TH changes what he said to the GJ during a potential trial due to LA pressure, TH would go to jail.

Maybe he is that stupid. It just boggles my mind if he is. It is a new day, and what he did during SCA was a different game. We all may push the envelope until the stakes get too high. I wouldn't drive as fast as I do if speeding tickets were $10000.

It is a new day - but for someone like Armstrong who has become used to having people bend to his will it might be impossible for him to think that he is above reproach.

 

[ChrisE]

How?
If Armstrong was to become a director the documents would have to be updated, there is nothing in the filling after 2002.
.

Ah, I see. Thanks.

 

[dbrower]

What would he have gained by confronting TH? Nothing. What would he have "pushed" TH over on? 60 minutes was in the past, his GJ testimony was in the past. If TH changes what he said to the GJ during a potential trial due to LA pressure, TH would go to jail.

Maybe he is that stupid. It just boggles my mind if he is. It is a new day, and what he did during SCA was a different game. We all may push the envelope until the stakes get too high. I wouldn't drive as fast as I do if speeding tickets were $10000.

Let's say it wasn't premeditated. Let's say he found out around the time he walked in. At that point, he chose not to go elsewhere, and later he chose not to ignore TH when he was nearby. Let's say he had no plan, and when TH came by, he internal anger led him to say things that made no sense for him to say, and which cause his attorneys to cringe, and may lead to charges.

So maybe he isn't that stupid, but is not that bright, and is prone to emotional reaction in a situation that could have been avoided if he'd been smarter about it going in.

I'm finding it hard to find fault with Hamilton by any non-conspiratorial scenario.

-dB