OK people, excuses for having closed this thread, but given the speed with which this thread kept throwing up posts that inflamed the situation more, the poor responsive by some to bite their tongue a bit whilst moderators were dealing with the various issues raised, and the misjudgements about what mods were or weren't doing, or condoning... buying some time to read 550 posts in peace, trying to judge how appropriate they were, within context, became the only manageable option from our end of the looking glass.
I tried to restore the thread by leaving only the content that was on topic, and addressing post rather than poster. I also tried to keep on topic argumentations intact as much a possible, and leave a discussion thread without "posting" holes.
More than one third of those posts have disappeared. A proportion of those didn't break any rules as such, or not in a way that would normally prompt us to intervene. Most did have issues though. Still, several of them were responses to posts that would have no place here because they were
a) off topic, and/or
b) breaking rules about how to conduct yourself here
and became part of the big purge. So even if your post went, it doesn't mean we disapproved of your post per se.
I'm not perfect, I probably have removed posts that could have remained, and left some post where there are certainly good arguments to have purged those too, in the context of what went. Trying to leave a thread that made sense complicated things a bit as well.
Also, if posts remained, it doesn't mean
a) the opinion expressed is one that the mods share or condone
b) we always like the tone of attitude taken
c) we feel that a particular discussion strand between users couldn't have taken up a lot less space and avoided fisking, or should have been taken to pms at some point.
d) we think the poster is a model poster
It means I had to make black or white calls in an ocean of grey stuff. People on all sides tend to have points that are worth making, or at least as worthy of making again as some of the counter-issues raised again. The deeper your point was buried in a post that we judge to be condescending or insulting, disrespectful of the poster you are addressing, the more likely a post was to disappear, even ifI agreed with the point made. We have a long history of saying that you can say a lot here, but it matters how you do it. We rarely gut a thread the way I did it here, but in this train-wreck that appeared over the last few days, I make no excuses for doing so. We tend to condone a bit more in this thread as people tend to be a bit animated about this issue than some others, but in the end it is still a thread that has a function too: be informative, an area for genuine discussion, engagement, and for entertainment (of sorts). Plus the rules still apply to this thread too.
Posts and discussion strands that went were flying in the face of that, or focussed on something that flew in the face of that.
I have not have time to deal with all aspects of the thread, and issues raised, nor contact all the people I intend to. That will happen shortly, as soon as I can.
I don't want to keep the thread locked until I have had time to dot all i's though. So I will be releasing the thread now.
A few rules that are in force anyway, but will be applied strictly for the foreseeable future in this thread in particular:
- address post not poster. Deal with issues, not how legit you feel a poster is, etc.
- don't raise issues or strands that have disappeared. PM where applicable, or bite your tongue. We are trying to move on and get the thread back on topic.
- don't raise issues about my intervention here in this thread . Use the "about the forum" section or pm. I or the other mods will try to address any issues raised there as best as I can, the moment I can.
- accept that people can look at the same issues and come to different conclusion, or can honestly hold a position that appears to fly in the face of some facts, or make assumptions or have expectations that don't match yours. That is allowed. People are welcome to post honestly held opinions, respectful and on topic. People are even allowed to raise things raised before, or refuted before. It doesn't mean you can slam a poster for doing so. If you feel you need to respond, address their points, or report their post to us if you feel a poster is not posting genuinely held opinions, or trolling. No individual poster is to take it upon themselves to bully another poster from this forum.
- if you can't raise your problem with another post within the constraints set out in the rules and guidelines, don't post. Report or ignore are the only two options that won't get you into trouble.
- don't assume that because you can't see any action taken, it isn't taking place, or isn't forthcoming. And certainly don't take that as a cue to make sure you will do "it" for us any way you see fit.
There are probably an infinite amount of ways to address the situation here better than I have chosen to do. What I have done I have tried to be as fair as I could, and as dispassionate as I could. Like all the mods, I am hoping to spend my time with family and friends over the coming days. If we find ourselves called back to this thread over the coming days, or any other, over and over, don't be surprised if we make sure that we won't be coming back to the same issue or poster, for a few days. I hate to take this tone with you guys, all the more as we went through a whole spell of the forum running itself nicely. Here it derailed itself in a way that we won't tolerate.
This is a red line in the sand. Heed it.
Over to you guys...
...and hope you have a great time with friends and family over the coming days. At home, or here on the forum.
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