Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[Dr. Maserati]

To quote you: "Can you please quit with the personal stuff, which I highlighted in Blue." Oops, never mind I forgot that it's ok for you to get personal but not for me to do it.

I was responding to YOUR post - not you personally, which is why I quote your posts.

I have not needed to make up anything about you nor have I insulted you or tried to put you in to some group.

Does it really matter what message I have brought since you have already taken a simple concept and played dumb because it hit too close to home? Because you and your buddies have taken many things I have and turned them into things I have not said. You guys have no desire to hear anything that is not 100% in agreement with yourselves. Go back and look through this thread from the start and see how often you guys attack people who don't agree with everything. As a mod on another forum (not cycling) I can tell you that a thread that includes about 90% non topic BS like this one would have been shot down a long time ago.

The message I have brought is about how the extremes on both sides simply can't have a rational, logical, intelligent discussion without insults, attacks, bullying and making things up to push your agenda. People like Polish do it from one extreme and people like brodeal do it from the other. Just today their has been an abundance of proof about what I have said coming from the extreme you sit on.

Deny, spin, insult, attack, ignore, whatever. The facts are their for all to see and the only people who can't see them are those who are doing it.

And am Mr. Armstrong? Any thoughts or comments....

 

[Louison]

I was responding to YOUR post - not you personally, which is why I quote your posts.

As did I.

I have not needed to make up anything about you nor have I insulted you are tried to put you in to some group.

You have made up things, like when you said: "Which post have I said I hate Armstrong?" in response to me saying "Perhaps you don't, but your posts sure make it seem otherwise." (cue you playing the "I don't get it" routine)

Perhaps you have not outright insulted me.

And am Mr. Armstrong? Any thoughts or comments....

I'll just use a quote by you for this one: "I have read this twice and cannot get your point -I assume you wrote it in haste."

Perhaps I am wearing you down and your mind will soon open and leave the extreme for reality...nah.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

As did I.



You have made up things, like when you said: "Which post have I said I hate Armstrong?" in response to me saying "Perhaps you don't, but your posts sure make it seem otherwise." (cue you playing the "I don't get it" routine)

Perhaps you have not outright insulted me.



I'll just use a quote by you for this one: "I have read this twice and cannot get your point -I assume you wrote it in haste."

Very simple point - this is a thread about Lance Armstrong. The quoted post did not mention him, only the posters here - I was wondering if you were going to address the subject of the thread or keep on discussing the posters here?

Perhaps I am wearing you down and your mind will soon open and leave the extreme for reality...nah.

Please point out the reality, I would be more than happy to read it.

 

[BroDeal]

Please point out the reality, I would be more than happy to read it.

His only reality is blind rage that appears to come from knowing that people talk about Armstrong's fraud. He has not raised a single point except complaints about "you guys" and their buddies.

 

[BroDeal]

You have made up things, like when you said: "Which post have I said I hate Armstrong?" in response to me saying "Perhaps you don't, but your posts sure make it seem otherwise." (cue you playing the "I don't get it" routine)

Perhaps you have not outright insulted me.

I would suggest that people with a persecution complex are not the best judge to determine when they have been insulted. Here is a clue. You probably won't take because I am one of "you guys." Just using the word "you" is not an insult unless you are ashamed of you being you, which may very well be the case.

 

[Louison]

Very simple point - this is a thread about Lance Armstrong. The quoted post did not mention him, only the posters here - I was wondering if you were going to address the subject of the thread or keep on discussing the posters here?

I have addressed the subject of Armstrong, as a matter of fact you responded on that subject. The comment you put in bold was about your posting "And am Mr. Armstrong?" (which makes no sense) yet you respond talking about something else (of course you conveniently ignored some other points or was it that mental condition again).

Please point out the reality, I would be more than happy to read it.

I have pointed it out multiple times. You have conveniently ignored it.


You seem to be struggling to remember things and to be able to understand simple concepts, is this because they don't fit your agenda or because you have recently had a crash and hit your head?

 

[Race Radio]

Good we can throw paranoid delusions into the mix. I've never heard of you other than this site. I'm asking if your anti-Armstrong vociferousness predated the comeback.

Seems not.

It's not a matter of the USPS being in financial trouble....

But of what will come to pass. You have all the facts. Snuggle up with them.

Seems not? You are making this up as you go along?

I have been riding since my early teens, 30 years. I first met him in the late 80's. It was clear he was troubled then.

I tried tried engage you, to understand what your point is. Your response is obfuscation, more silly questions, and claims of editorials I have written.

It is clear I wasted my time

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I have addressed the subject of Armstrong, as a matter of fact you responded on that subject. The comment you put in bold was about your posting "And am Mr. Armstrong?" (which makes no sense) yet you respond talking about something else (of course you conveniently ignored some other points or was it that mental condition again).



I have pointed it out multiple times. You have conveniently ignored it.


You seem to be struggling to remember things and to be able to understand simple concepts, is this because they don't fit your agenda or because you have recently had a crash and hit your head?

To be fair I didn't conveniently ignore it - I did briefly consider the notion that Armstrong had done "great things" - but when I asked what he did was great it didn't amount to anything that great, it was pretty ordinary really.

BTW - I am allowing you the opportunity to discuss Armstrong. If you make another comment like the personal one again I will report it, ok.

 

[Race Radio]

I find the part in bold to be quite ironic considering that most of the posts by you and your buddies today have been attacking the messenger then...maybe...addressing the message.

P.S.- Sorry not House/Hombre. If you recall he was very much in the "show me real proof" camp, unlike myself who believes that Armstrong did dope. Of course by posting that now I know who you were at that forum and am not surprised by the way you act on here. You and brodeal have always been such a cute couple. The funny part is that you and I agreed on quite a few things at that forum.

I did not say or infer that you were House or Hombre.

I have only asked you to clarify your message, that is not an attack

 

[thehog]

Armstrong reminds me a lot of Jeff Skilling and Enron. People were strongly supporting to the day it all collapsed that all was well. Look how that turned out.

No matter how much it seems like a good idea at the time it all comes crashing down in time.

The Armstrong lies are not sustainable. He honestly can't keep it up.

It's just a waiting game now....

 

[BroDeal]

Armstrong reminds me a lot of Jeff Skilling and Enron. People were strongly supporting to the day it all collapsed that all was well. Look how that turned out.

No matter how much it seems like a good idea at the time it all comes crashing down in time.

The Armstrong are not sustainable. He honestly can't keep it up.

It's just a waiting game now....

I would say that the writing has been on the wall since all his supporters started to preface their defense with "I think he doped, but..." or "I am not an Armstrong fan, but..." It's only a matter of time before that sentiment filters through the general population.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I would say that the writing has been on the wall since all his supporters started to preface their defense with "I think he doped, but..." or "I am not an Armstrong fan, but..." It's only a matter of time before that sentiment filters through the general population.

Or the attempt to define fraud - that is a bit of a turn around from when I joined here less than 3 years ago.

 

[Neworld]

What message have you(Louison) attempted to bring to this forum?

I'd have to agree Doc. It all started with the Hog's post at 10123, about CSE evaluating the best performing athletes. Then Louison (49 posts) responds to Velodude a couple of times. At post 10132 Louison responds to Velodude and spetsa with...

"I knew when I posted something that spoke about a basic concept of sport business I would get a response like this. Are you guys completely incapable of leaving out your personal dislike for Armstrong when it comes to discussing things like this?"

Are they not allowed to post their dislikes of Lance...in an Armstrong thread? Then Lou... takes a shot at the Hog again...

"If he is irrelevant then why do you and your buddies constantly talk about him? This thread is over 1000 pages. You guys attack and insult anyone who does not agree with everything you say in threads about Armstrong but don't do that in other doping threads. It sure doesn't sound like he is irrelevant...at least in the minds of you and your buddies."

But at that point no one had attacked or insulted Lou? Another post discordant with reality. I got involved when I responded to Lou's comment...

You clearly do not understand how endorsements and athletes work...

I said..

"Try this Louis."

Retired athletes still have endorsement juice
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/4832994..."

Lou responded with ...

1) Why do you feel the need to stoop to trying to make it sound like I posted things I did not post? Where did I say anything about not being able to earn any money or that you are forgotten the day you finish? That's amateurish, childish and hypocritical as you are doing exactly what you rip anyone who does not agree with you guys 100% for.

2) He retired nearly a year ago...from a very low rated niche sport in the US. A huge drop is nothing special.

3) What does Armstrong's behavior have to do with what I posted? Nothing, it is simply a way for you to avoid the truth. You and your buddies constantly talk about him This thread is over 1000 pages. You guys attack and insult anyone who does not agree with everything you say in threads about Armstrong but don't do that in other doping threads. It sure doesn't sound like he is irrelevant...at least in the minds of you and your buddies."

Bottom line...Lou fabricates almost everything, is aggressive and employs an offense is the best defence tactic. He was never insulted or attacked but certainly responded with harsh language and verbal insults. Then he goes on for 30 more pages with the same nonsense without adding anything to the post. Aren't his posts breaking the moderator's rules? Why is he still allowed to post? No wonder the thread count is over 1000.

NW

 

[Race Radio]

Accurate synopses Neworld.

Speaking of insults it seems silly to write

You guys are so predictable in your hate for Armstrong. You guys should ride your bikes once in a while and maybe you would not have such irrational, festering anger for someone you do not even know.

And not have anyone question you. The best thing to do is point our why someone is incorrect, instead of classifying their views as "irrational, festering anger"

 

[Neworld]

The best thing to do is to point out why someone is incorrect, instead of classifying their views as "irrational, festering anger"

It reminds me of this description of a person:

-very sensitive to the way others treat them,
-reacting strongly to perceived criticism or hurtfulness
-their feelings about others often negative
-see most issues as black or white or extreme
-impulsive behaviors, antisocial
-perception that the world as generally dangerous and malevolent.[6]
-often described as deliberately manipulative or difficult, having a feeling of powerlessness and defensive reactions, or limited coping and communication skills

You cannot engage or hope to have a normal back and forth conversation with someone like that, its exhaustive and futile.

NW

 

[Louison]

Never mind, you guys are simply doing exactly what I said you do (but including blatant lies) and have no desire to hear anything that doesn't toe your party line. Closed minded extremists, just like Polish and his buddies. The irony is you guys are pretty much exactly like you describe Armstrong.

Enjoy your evening ladies.

 

[180mmCrank]

Ok.

So my inbox is just about full of reported posts and different people complaining about he said this and he said that. I nearly got to the point of deleting just about every post made in this thread in the last 4-5 hours but I am not sure there is much point.

I would ask (again) that we stop posting about other posters and stick to opinions about the topic - although this will be tough because it seems like people are choosing to get very personaly involved - to what end I am not really sure.

Can we at least agree to try?

Thank you.

Terry

 

[LarryBudMelman]

Good Lord! Armstrong is a cheat, criminal, and an all around general scumbag, and if there is any justice in this world he will do jail time and lose a significant part of his fraudulently acquired fortune. Why anyone would be moved to defend him except for a defense attorney is beyond me.

I'm out.

 

[Spider1964]

Good Lord! Armstrong is a cheat, criminal, and an all around general scumbag, and if there is any justice in this world he will do jail time and lose a significant part of his fraudulently acquired fortune. Why anyone would be moved to defend him except for a defense attorney is beyond me.

I'm out.

Can you grab Louie the fly on your way?

Back to Lance.. From reading this thread (and other forms of media) he appears to be knee deep in it, as most bar a few can deduce, but this GJ investigation appears to have uncovered that much criminal activity, that there now seems to be more people who should be worried than just Lance? He's toast, or so it seems to me (IMO Louie), but what of others who have aided and abetted? How long is the list and apart from the obvious Armstrong partners (i.e. Tailwind directors, CSE directors, Ferrari, Pat, Hein? etc), who and how many others have been caught in the net? I'm aware of the GJ secrecy provisions, but as RR has alluded to in some of his posts, people talk... What other names have been caught up in this maelstrom?

 

[Benotti69]

Ok.

So my inbox is just about full of reported posts and different people complaining about he said this and he said that. I nearly got to the point of deleting just about every post made in this thread in the last 4-5 hours but I am not sure there is much point.

I would ask (again) that we stop posting about other posters and stick to opinions about the topic - although this will be tough because it seems like people are choosing to get very personaly involved - to what end I am not really sure.

Can we at least agree to try?

Thank you.

Terry

Does CN have some sort of policy where the obvious trolls in the clinic are allowed to continue posting if they obfuscate from the yella side of the fence?

There has been recent new posters who have brought absolutely nothing in the way of discussion about doping in cycling but joining up and just posting about the hate towards Armstrong and trying to totally derail the thread, not that is too hard after Polish's many many posts and throwing lots of insults towards posters insinuating delusions.

Not so long someone posting in such a manner would've been lucky to make 10 posts.

Why is this allowed?

PS dont move this from here as it is very relevant to this and the livestrong thread!

 

[doolols]

There has been recent new posters who have brought absolutely nothing in the way of discussion about doping in cycling but joining up and just posting about the hate towards Armstrong and trying to totally derail the thread, not that is too hard after Polish's many many posts and throwing lots of insults towards posters insinuating delusions.

I do wonder about this. It's easy to head on over to conspiracy theory territory, and imagine that this is a concerted and organised procedure. I don't know about that, but you do begin to wonder. People should remember to take issue with the posts, not the posters.

 

[spetsa]

To quote you: "Can you please quit with the personal stuff, which I highlighted in Blue." Oops, never mind I forgot that it's ok for you to get personal but not for me to do it.

Does it really matter what message I have brought since you have already taken a simple concept and played dumb because it hit too close to home? Because you and your buddies have taken many things I have and turned them into things I have not said. You guys have no desire to hear anything that is not 100% in agreement with yourselves. Go back and look through this thread from the start and see how often you guys attack people who don't agree with everything. As a mod on another forum (not cycling) I can tell you that a thread that includes about 90% non topic BS like this one would have been shot down a long time ago.The message I have brought is about how the extremes on both sides simply can't have a rational, logical, intelligent discussion without insults, attacks, bullying and making things up to push your agenda. People like Polish do it from one extreme and people like brodeal do it from the other. Just today their has been an abundance of proof about what I have said coming from the extreme you sit on.

Deny, spin, insult, attack, ignore, whatever. The facts are their for all to see and the only people who can't see them are those who are doing it.

So you did come here with an agenda. Thanks for clearing that up for us.

Mods....

 

[Poursuivant]

Can you grab Louie the fly on your way?

Back to Lance.. From reading this thread (and other forms of media) he appears to be knee deep in it, as most bar a few can deduce, but this GJ investigation appears to have uncovered that much criminal activity, that there now seems to be more people who should be worried than just Lance? He's toast, or so it seems to me (IMO Louie), but what of others who have aided and abetted? How long is the list and apart from the obvious Armstrong partners (i.e. Tailwind directors, CSE directors, Ferrari, Pat, Hein? etc), who and how many others have been caught in the net? I'm aware of the GJ secrecy provisions, but as RR has alluded to in some of his posts, people talk... What other names have been caught up in this maelstrom?

Would be great to see Pat and Hein succumb.

 

[Louison]

I see that while I was sleeping the usual suspects were on the attack and still proving the points I made about the two extremes to be correct. I especially loved the harassing private messages I received.

Thanks for spending so much time thinking about me.

 

[Race Radio]

I see that while I was sleeping the usual suspects were on the attack and still proving the points I made about the two extremes to be correct. I especially loved the harassing private messages I received.

Thanks for spending so much time thinking about me.

Could you remind us of what those points are again as it seems you are the only one here who knows what they are.