Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[Dr. Maserati]

I know this thread has moved on a bit from the Demand, Google issue of a few days ago but I had a question that I feel needs to be asked. I would have posted earlier but I was waiting for my account to be activated, long time listener, first-time poster.

Anyway, are we really suggesting that Google is devoting all this time to shutting down a huge chunk of the Lance profit machine, while at the same time altering search terms and search results to help positively manipulate public perception of him and his accusers? While it seems that there is significant evidence of some sort of tampering on Google's part... "betsy andreu divorce," the bikezilla blog, etc. I find it hard to believe that they are so actively trying to damage Lance's business, while promoting his public image at the same time.

Can one of you explain this better for me?

Easy - one is a business decision against Demand (not LA directly) to increase traffic and revenue.

The 'tampering' of websites and searches can be done by one individual - and I would assume it can be done by someone not even directly involved with google.

 

[BroDeal]

I know this thread has moved on a bit from the Demand, Google issue of a few days ago but I had a question that I feel needs to be asked. I would have posted earlier but I was waiting for my account to be activated, long time listener, first-time poster.

Anyway, are we really suggesting that Google is devoting all this time to shutting down a huge chunk of the Lance profit machine, while at the same time altering search terms and search results to help positively manipulate public perception of him and his accusers? While it seems that there is significant evidence of some sort of tampering on Google's part... "betsy andreu divorce," the bikezilla blog, etc. I find it hard to believe that they are so actively trying to damage Lance's business, while promoting his public image at the same time.

Can one of you explain this better for me?

The easiest way to manipulate search results would be for Armstrong to leverage his relationship with Demand Media. It would be in Demand's interest as well since it profits from Livestrong.com. Links on the vast number of Demand pages could be used to alter search results.

 

[DomesticDomestique]

Alright that makes sense. However, wasn't the suggestion in here that it was Dylan Casey doing the tampering from within Google. And it sounded like he had a significant role in the company. Would it be accurate to assume that he works for Google and was able to alter search results, while not having nearly enough clout to oppose the attack on Demand Media?

I just want to get the facts straight here because I'm a supporter of you, BB and RR, and I have to argue the facts against the flicker's of the world.

 

[BotanyBay]

Alright that makes sense. However, wasn't the suggestion in here that it was Dylan Casey doing the tampering from within Google. And it sounded like he had a significant role in the company. Would it be accurate to assume that he works for Google and was able to alter search results, while not having nearly enough clout to oppose the attack on Demand Media?

I just want to get the facts straight here because I'm a supporter of you, BB and RR, and I have to argue the facts against the flicker's of the world.

I can't personally accuse Casey of being the gremlin.

I don't know of anything that would link him directly to that action. I'm just saying that the results suggest manipulation, and Casey would most certainly be a significant "inside connection", and he has been "staying in character" in regards to upholding the Lance mythology. Google also likes to rent-out Casey as their resident "guy who helped Lance Armstrong win the TDF", so who knows if Sergey Brin is a fanboy or not. I don't think we could expect an honest answer from Dylan on this either.

The kind of manipulation I've noticed happening here, as a guy who has worked in the interactive media biz, if I could harness the power to control Google search suggestions in the manner that they've been controlled in these situations, I could start a multi-million dollar business TODAY. The power would be that valuable. Either someone on the inside is doing it, or someone on the outside has figured-out how to do it. I've met a lot of SEO people who say they can do optimization, but no one that can actually do what happened here. So I (personally) suspect an inside connection manipulated these search results.

BTW, the Andreu/Divorce thing... it's been up for a long time. I "noticed" it a long time ago, but just shrugged it off as weird. When I saw Floyd's name come up with it, yet there was no media at all about his true-to-life divorce when it happened. So it began to make sense.

Facts are hard to come by in this. And that's in large part to Google owning the keys to the car. They don't hand them over to anyone.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Alright that makes sense. However, wasn't the suggestion in here that it was Dylan Casey doing the tampering from within Google. And it sounded like he had a significant role in the company. Would it be accurate to assume that he works for Google and was able to alter search results, while not having nearly enough clout to oppose the attack on Demand Media?

I just want to get the facts straight here because I'm a supporter of you, BB and RR, and I have to argue the facts against the flicker's of the world.

A suggestion was made about Casey - who is Search Product Manager at Google. He works for Google and Demand are a competitor, so naturally he would be working in Googles best interests.

 

[Dallas_]

Bob Stapleton on LA retirement

Bob Stapleton, co-owner of HTC-Highroad team, talks about Armstrong's career

"it is the results on the bike and with cancer that will be remembered 20 years from now. Whatever happens with the grand jury, it may call into question some of the magnitude of his athletic success but as an overall historical figure not much."

"He was just a beast on the bike, a ferocious competitor and if he proved unstoppable it was because he did the work to improve."

source http://spyns-tour-de-france-tour-reviews.blogspot.com/


Does it appear Bob Stapleton is patronizing him and at the same time taking a mid fence position regarding doping?

"it may call into question some of the magnitude of his athletic success" ...Is Bob admitting that miracle boy juiced? Athletic success!!

"he did the work to improve." ...............yes Bob, Ferrari can improve performance.


The author of the article concludes "maybe, just maybe, doping or no doping, this is the real key: Armstrong won on an even playing field"

My perception is the Armstrong supporters now believe he doped, but will support him to the bitter END. .....classic entertainment

cheers

 

[Granville57]

http://spyns-tour-de-france-tour-reviews.blogspot.com/

OK, wow!
That blog is a piece o' work. You gotta love the opening pic of Basso...in a Discovery Team kit?! Yeah, that's relevant. The misguided fawning that follows has some other gems as well.

If Armstrong had stayed retired after winning his seventh consecutive Tour de France in 2005, Floyd Landis might not have released a bunch of e-mails that brought chaos to Armstrong's life last spring.

In an unfortunate twist, those e-mails attracted the attention of federal prosecutor Jeff Novitzky...<snip> And yet, it is impossible not to attach Armstrong's name to competitive greatness and to meaningful charity work through his Livestrong Foundation.

There's nothing quite like misinformed redirection at its finest.

All of this, combined with the Stapleton quote from Dallas_, really is disturbing though. The end really does justify the means to these people...no matter what, apparently.

As I have stated many times before: One of the great flaws in all this is that the world will never know what "good" may have come from multiple Ullrich victories or any other worthy contender. Who knows what grand causes they may have embraced with their celebrity and success. This idea that LA is the only one capable of "doing good things" is a twisted fantasy. So who cares how those "victories" may have been achieved. He makes people "feel" better. Therefore, anything goes. Sports, rules, law, etc...whatever. They're all meaningless in the grand scheme of things. "Charity" trumps all. Is that their reasoning?

 

[Oldman]

Bob Stapleton, co-owner of HTC-Highroad team, talks about Armstrong's career

"it is the results on the bike and with cancer that will be remembered 20 years from now. Whatever happens with the grand jury, it may call into question some of the magnitude of his athletic success but as an overall historical figure not much."

"He was just a beast on the bike, a ferocious competitor and if he proved unstoppable it was because he did the work to improve."

source http://spyns-tour-de-france-tour-reviews.blogspot.com/


Does it appear Bob Stapleton is patronizing him and at the same time taking a mid fence position regarding doping?

"it may call into question some of the magnitude of his athletic success" ...Is Bob admitting that miracle boy juiced? Athletic success!!

"he did the work to improve." ...............yes Bob, Ferrari can improve performance.


The author of the article concludes "maybe, just maybe, doping or no doping, this is the real key: Armstrong won on an even playing field"

My perception is the Armstrong supporters now believe he doped, but will support him to the bitter END. .....classic entertainment

cheers

I have to say this attitude completely ignores a multitude of riders that possessed superior talent to Armstrong but refused to be absolute tools of sponsorship for false gain. Writing that sounds naive but Armstrong persevered and prospered on work ethic, naked ambition and drugs. Without the drugs none of it would happened, Bob Stapleton's silly opinion aside. It only refreshes my attitude about some of the overpaid Fans that bought their way into the sport: they can't separate their questionable business ethics with true sport and want a share of a franchise that agrandizes their involvement. Sorry little people.

 

[Benotti69]

Bob Stapleton's views about wonderboy make me believe that his htc team are the cleanest out there

 

[BotanyBay]

LA Times: Armstrong supports Cig Tax

When Lance is spending other people's money, he's absolutely in-favor of raising money for research. Gee, I wonder if he's been paying attention to our collective criticism.

 

[Polish]

As I have stated many times before: One of the great flaws in all this is that the world will never know what "good" may have come from multiple Ullrich victories or any other worthy contender.

Who knows what grand causes they may have embraced with their celebrity and success.:

Yes, Lance sucked the goodness right out of Big Jan.
Like the filling from a twinkie. What could Jan do?

Yes, Jan's "grand causes" never came to life.
Never embraced. His celebrity and success stolen.

"What's the use" thought Jan.
"Lance has cheated me and my grand causes"
"Curse him"

Back in 1997 Lance started a small foundation. While fighting for his life.
But that year Jan was busy winning the TdF doped to the gills.
Lance blindsided Jan.

Like an attack in a feed zone. Or a pee break.
Lance did NOT wait for Jan.
Jan's grand causes could not catch the LAF.
Jan's grand causes DNF'd.

Now, we are left to think what could have been.

 

[thehog]

When Lance is spending other people's money, he's absolutely in-favor of raising money for research. Gee, I wonder if he's been paying attention to our collective criticism.

Dangerous move. I wouldn't take on the tobacco industry. They have a habit of digging for dirt and discrediting you. Bad fight to pick unless you know you're sweaky sweaky clean.

 

[BotanyBay]

Dangerous move. I wouldn't take on the tobacco industry. They have a habit of digging for dirt and discrediting you. Bad fight to pick unless you know you're sweaky sweaky clean.

He's doing it for one reason and one reason only. To try and win the sympathies of a potential jury pool in Los Angeles County. He needs them to report to jury duty with an image in their head of him being a tireless hero.

 

[thehog]

He's doing it for one reason and one reason only. To try and win the sympathies of a potential jury pool in Los Angeles County. He needs them to report to jury duty with an image in their head of him being a tireless hero.

Some people love to smoke and hate do-gooders telling them different. They won't appreciate a man who's avoided paying tax most of hs life taxing them. It's not an easy win. Tobacco is bigger than banking. And much dirtier.

The tobacco industry also funds more for cancer research in one year than Livestrong has done in it's history.

It's such a bad move.

I hear your point but I hope he gets hs 12 non-smokers on the jury.... but heck everyone loves a ciggie even if they don't admit it... that's a big CHANCE to take,

 

[BotanyBay]

Some people love to smoke and hate do-gooders telling them different. They won't appreciate a man who's avoided paying tax most of hs life taxing them. It's not an easy win. Tobacco is bigger than banking. And much dirtier.

The tobacco industry also funds more for cancer research in one year than Livestrong has done in it's history.

It's such a bad move.

I hear your point but I hope he gets hs 12 non-smokers on the jury.... but heck everyone loves a ciggie even if they don't admit it... that's a big CHANCE to take,

All that big tobacco has to do is ask the voters why this guy from Texas is pimping his tax idea in California and not in Texas. Then they'll roll-out the reasons why he's pimping it in California.

 

[D-Queued]

All that big tobacco has to do is ask the voters why this guy from Texas is pimping his tax idea in California and not in Texas. Then they'll roll-out the reasons why he's pimping it in California.

Californians just defeated a well-funded campaign on an initiative by a couple of Texans in the last election.

Let another Texan try and tell them what they should do.

Good luck to him.

Dave.

 

[thehog]

Californians just defeated a well-funded campaign on an initiative by a couple of Texans in the last election.

Let another Texan try and tell them what they should do.

Good luck to him.

Dave.

You just don't go near the tobacco industry unless you're Michael Moore - that’s he's job and he's paid a price for it (see associated leaks on his life).

The industry has more lawyers and more "covert" dirt finders than the UCI! I mean bloody hell. Cigar smoking is congress. Don't do it. You're hard pushed to find anyone celebrities included who would support such a tax.

But alas he's desperate. He's got nothing to hang on to. He can't do interviews anymore, he can't save the world like he used to and he can't ride his bike. He's been destroyed. But he's still making money Demand et al... that won't last forever - he needs to cash in now to bankroll the upcoming trials. SCA will take him for the most. Interest payments alone will kill him.

 

[thirteen]

All that big tobacco has to do is ask the voters why this guy from Texas is pimping his tax idea in California and not in Texas. Then they'll roll-out the reasons why he's pimping it in California.

Californians just defeated a well-funded campaign on an initiative by a couple of Texans in the last election.

Let another Texan try and tell them what they should do.

Good luck to him.

You just don't go near the tobacco industry unless you're Michael Moore - that’s he's job and he's paid a price for it (see associated leaks on his life).

The industry has more lawyers and more "covert" dirt finders than the UCI! I mean bloody hell. Cigar smoking is congress. Don't do it. You're hard pushed to find anyone celebrities included who would support such a tax.

But alas he's desperate. <snip>

California is really hurting right now, something he obviously didn't put into the equation.

there is a chance that cigarette taxes will be raised yet again but it won't be used to fund lung cancer research. it will be for education and the like, things that have been taking a serious hit in today's economy and need to be addressed immediately. we have a lot more pressing problems currently than to be fussed with this just to make the Texan look big and caring.

he is an idiot.

bad bad PR move! we don't much like texans either

 

[BotanyBay]

California is really hurting right now, something he obviously didn't put into the equation.

there is a chance that cigarette taxes will be raised yet again but it won't be used to fund lung cancer research. it will be for education and the like, things that have been taking a serious hit in today's economy and need to be addressed immediately. we have a lot more pressing problems currently than to be fussed with this just to make the Texan look big and caring.

he is an idiot.

bad bad PR move! we don't much like texans either

Jerry Brown is pimping his own law that will make Armstrong's an automatic go anyway. Seems stupid for Lance to stick his neck out like this.

Armstrong is hitching his wagon to California because he KNOWS that Texans would immediately turn on him for taking away their Marlboros.

 

[thehog]

California is really hurting right now, something he obviously didn't put into the equation.

he is an idiot.

bad bad PR move! we don't much like texans either

- Correct. People want their lives back not a tax and yes it is a distraction. It really seems an odd state to choose to push for the tax.

Even with a figure as well-known as Armstrong at the helm, however, the ballot measure could face opposition, not only from tobacco companies, but potentially from lawmakers who disapprove of ballot-box budgeting and view the measure as a distraction from a slate of difficult decisions on budget cuts in the months ahead.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/27/local/la-me-0228-lance-armstrong-ballot-20110228

 

[thehog]

- Correct. People want their lives back not a tax and yes it is a distraction. It really seems an odd state to choose to push for the tax.

Even with a figure as well-known as Armstrong at the helm, however, the ballot measure could face opposition, not only from tobacco companies, but potentially from lawmakers who disapprove of ballot-box budgeting and view the measure as a distraction from a slate of difficult decisions on budget cuts in the months ahead.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/27/local/la-me-0228-lance-armstrong-ballot-20110228

errr and no doubt Livestrong are picking up the tab for the campaign? ummm how is this awareness? Its political.

 

[BotanyBay]

Even with a figure as well-known as Armstrong at the helm, however, the ballot measure could face opposition, not only from tobacco companies, but potentially from lawmakers who disapprove of ballot-box budgeting and view the measure as a distraction from a slate of difficult decisions on budget cuts in the months ahead.

Oh, it will face opposition. Namely from the "National Restaurant Association" ...which is really just a front for Altria (Phillip Morris). I know this because I used to work at the ad agency that served PM (and no, I never did any work for them). The National Restaurant Association was also (curiously) a client of ours. All the work done for them had to do with promoting smoke filtration technology in bars and restaurants (the common antidote for any anti-smoking legislation aimed at eateries).

 

[thehog]

Oh, it will face opposition. Namely from the "National Restaurant Association" ...which is really just a front for Altria (Phillip Morris). I know this because I used to work at the ad agency that served RJR (and no, I never did any work for them). The National Restaurant Association was also (curiously) a client of ours. All the work done for them had to do with promoting smoke filtration technology in bars and restaurants (the common antidote for any anti-smoking legislation aimed at eateries).

Interesting. I did some work for PM in the late 90's. Friggin scary. They had blokes following me around the building as watchers! They were branching into India and places like that. Making mountains of money. They hated do-gooders. I hate smoking myself. But I would never take them on. I just choose not to smoke myself and that’s that. I've also seen them pay off potential claimant with large wads of cash. They would call them in and push the cash across the table. 99.99% would take it.

 

[BotanyBay]

Interesting. I did some work for PM in the late 90's. Friggin scary. They had blokes following me around the building as watchers! They were branching into India and places like that. Making mountains of money. They hated do-gooders. I hate smoking myself. But I would never take them on. I just choose not to smoke myself and that’s that. I've also seen them pay off potential claimant with large wads of cash. They would call them in and push the cash across the table. 99.99% would take it.

The people that did work on PM never worked on anything else, and they never asked any others to do work for it. The PM work was a silent, unmentioned "silo" within the agency. A lot of the work was focused on strategy for getting new smokers in Asia. The strategy was simple. Plaster the logo everywhere they could find space and then leave packs of smokes in places that teens were apt to frequent (such as arcades, dance clubs, etc).

All of the talk about "targeting" teens in the ads was totally moot. They didn't need ads. All they needed to do was create (or modify) brands that had cool factor for them to identify with.

Cigs are not branded to distinguish taste/flavor from one another. The brands exist to create emotional identities and attachments with the audience. You're either a manly biker/cowboy who smokes Marlboros, or you're ultra-cool and club-centric and you smoke Camels. If you're a hippie-vegan health nut, they've also got you covered with American Spirits

 

[DirtyWorks]

Nyvelocity Revisit

I stumbled onto an old recorded conversation over at nyvelocity. However, I have no idea who is saying what to whom. The article the media is attached to says it's Team Pharmstrong people, but who?

http://nyvelocity.com/content/2011/bicileaks-stapleton-and-knaggs-chat-frankie

Does the recorded conversation contradict all of the testimony given in the article? I know very little, so it's hard for me to figure it out.