Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[veganrob]

If Wonderboy got good advice, he controls a company based in some other nation and then paid himself and Ferrari. That's not new or illegal and can sufficiently shield him. Expensive? Complicated? Yes. But we're talking good revenue and therefore lots of risk.

The question becomes how dumb was anyone involved with the payment transfers. I expect parts of the investigation will have answers as I see no bank/country willing to obfuscate inquiries over a couple of comparatively small-time cyclists.

Not just a question of how dumb were they. I think they were probably kind of smart. Where it all comes apart for them is because of their arrogance, which they had an abundance of. They thought they could get away with anything.

 

[GreasyMonkey]

So you guys really think that Uniballer, the H0g, and the Ukranian Kosack are the Axis of Evil, grifters, floating money all around the continent, more unnumbered accounts than Gaddafi+Manuel Noriega combined, Pallets of Actovin, EPO, Testesterone, and HGH, making deliveries bogging down the G-6?
I suppose LIVESTRONG is only the front for this International operation.

I hear the NSA has sattellites in geo syncroness orbit over the Kossacks pad in Lucca, the H0gs secret bunker in Zambia, and Lance fortress in Austin, and Jeffs got his crew sitting in a van somewhere with the headphones on......

Golly, I feel safer already.......

Soon the anti- Armstrong drones are going aloft......

Just because you ARE paranoid, does NOT mean that they are NOT out to get YOU.....

 

[ClappinCheeks]

entered thread hoping to see interesting pieces/developments about lance

didn't see ****

 

[Dallas_]

Speculation

Now back to the MiracleBoy payment/payments to the UCI. I have a speculative theory.


My opinion, there were actually two payments in 2001

One was to the UCI.

The second was an amount going directly into the pocket of HB by checque, wire, cash or carrier pidgeon.
I am not talking of a specific $12,000 either.


"Armstrong told Cycling Weekly that the payment made in 2005, before he retired, was around $25,000."

"McQuaid admitted on Irish radio on Thursday that it was in fact $100,000"

Asked on Thursday if he had ever paid the UCI any money, Armstrong said: "Absolutely not."

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...mstrong-made-to-uci-for-a-sysmex-machine.html


The UCI denied that any bribe was paid, but admits that Armstrong did hand over money in two payments, specifically in 2002 and 2005. These are said by them to have totalled €125,000, and it says that they were used for anti-doping purposes, including the purchase of a Sysmex blood-analysis machine.

Pound has criticised the UCI in the past and says now that he is not satisfied with the explanations given. “All you know is that Armstrong has made significant payments to the UCI. They do not know why, they are not quite sure when, and they do not know what were the circumstances. This is not good for any sport.”

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/5...mstrong-payments-to-IOC-ethics-committee.aspx


At some point, the three guys finally got their stories straight. They now say (in unison) $100,000.

http://fraudbytes.blogspot.com/2010/09/lance-armstrong-investigation-what-we.html


Think about it, why did LA admit and also deny any payment to the UCI!

He denied at the TOC - 3min 12sec into http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym1qz0eO0ww&feature=related
just as Novi was starting to sniff. I smell a rat.

Is miracleboy and PM trying to protect HB, or is this IRS related?

Novitzky probably has all these answers.

cheers

 

[thehog]

You might want to add in the SCA deposition. Whereby he wasn't sure if it was 25,000 but it was less than 30,000. He also didn't remember if anyone received it or what they did with the money.

Now back to the MiracleBoy payment/payments to the UCI. I have a speculative theory.


My opinion, there were actually two payments in 2001

One was to the UCI.

The second was an amount going directly into the pocket of HB by checque, wire, cash or carrier pidgeon.
I am not talking of a specific $12,000 either.


"Armstrong told Cycling Weekly that the payment made in 2005, before he retired, was around $25,000."

"McQuaid admitted on Irish radio on Thursday that it was in fact $100,000"

Asked on Thursday if he had ever paid the UCI any money, Armstrong said: "Absolutely not."

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...mstrong-made-to-uci-for-a-sysmex-machine.html


The UCI denied that any bribe was paid, but admits that Armstrong did hand over money in two payments, specifically in 2002 and 2005. These are said by them to have totalled €125,000, and it says that they were used for anti-doping purposes, including the purchase of a Sysmex blood-analysis machine.

Pound has criticised the UCI in the past and says now that he is not satisfied with the explanations given. “All you know is that Armstrong has made significant payments to the UCI. They do not know why, they are not quite sure when, and they do not know what were the circumstances. This is not good for any sport.”

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/5...mstrong-payments-to-IOC-ethics-committee.aspx


At some point, the three guys finally got their stories straight. They now say (in unison) $100,000.

http://fraudbytes.blogspot.com/2010/09/lance-armstrong-investigation-what-we.html


Think about it, why did LA admit and also deny any payment to the UCI!

He denied at the TOC - 3min 12sec into http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym1qz0eO0ww&feature=related
just as Novi was starting to sniff. I smell a rat.

Is miracleboy and PM trying to protect HB, or is this IRS related?

Novitzky probably has all these answers.

cheers

 

[D-Queued]

Where did the money from the '28' jerseys go?

Anyone have more detail on this:

http://twitter.com/#!/Velocentric/statuses/50674438634606592

Remember: theprofits from the '28' jersey that went on sale didn't go to Livestrong.

Where is the money?

Dave.

 

[Granville57]

I just dropped this in the All Things Legal "sticky" as a reference, but it might make for some good conversation here.

2010 year-end False Claims Act update: Part 1

False Claims Act litigation and enforcement exploded in 2010 with unprecedented intensity. Indeed, the government secured more than $3 billion in civil settlements and judgments for its fiscal year ending Sept. 30, 2010 — a 25 percent increase over the previous year, and the second-largest yearly recovery amount ever. The Justice Department's total recoveries in False Claims Act cases from January 2009 through January 2011 have exceeded $6.8 billion, which is far greater than any other previous two-year period. With these new numbers on the books, the total amount recovered under the False Claims Act since Congress amended the statute in 1986 has climbed to the staggering amount of more than $27 billion.

Third, despite U.S. Supreme Court warnings, the FCA continues to develop into an "all-purpose anti-fraud statute."

Considering how successful the FCA has been for the government, I don't think the Feds will have much difficulty in justifying the ongoing investigation. They seem to be fortifying their position.

 

[Topangarider]

Bicycling.com article

http://www.bicycling.com/news/pro-cycling/lance-armstrongs-endgame

This seems significant to me. Indicative of a major shift in thinking and will undoubtedly influence readers

 

[Race Radio]

http://www.bicycling.com/news/pro-cycling/lance-armstrongs-endgame

This seems significant to me. Indicative of a major shift in thinking and will undoubtedly influence readers

This is the latest spin. Yeah he doped but he "Did a lot of good"

Can someone explain how jet fuel is a "Lot of good"?

 

[Speedzero]

http://www.bicycling.com/news/pro-cycling/lance-armstrongs-endgame

This seems significant to me. Indicative of a major shift in thinking and will undoubtedly influence readers

Surreal. It's like the six retrospective positives from 1999 never happened.

 

[sniper]

but this part is not un-interesting

His ultimate legacy most likely is out of our hands. Fans who may not yet be alive will decide who he was. To us, today, Eddy Merckx is the greatest cyclist who ever lived, not a fraud who tested positive for a stimulant while leading the 1969 Giro d'Italia and had his 1973 Giro di Lombardia win stripped for the same. Joop Zoetemelk is the hardman who started and finished 16 Tours—a record—and won one. He's not a reprobate who was caught doping at the 1979 Tour, received a paltry penalty of a 10-minute time addition, and maintained his second-place podium spot. Jacques Anquetil is the five-time Tour winner who in 1961 took the yellow jersey on Stage 1 and wore it all the way to Paris, not a boastful cheater who said, during a French television interview, "Leave me in peace—everybody takes dope." And Fausto Coppi is il campionissimo, the champion of champions, not an admitted doper who said on Italian television that he only took drugs when necessary—"which is nearly always."

http://www.bicycling.com/news/pro-cy...trongs-endgame

 

[webvan]

I'm not sure I get his reasoning ? He's got nothing tangible to say he doped but somehow

It was an admission that doping had occurred, one disguised so it could assume innocence but unmistakable to me in meaning. The moment I received it felt strangely like a relief, and after all these years unreal and apart from what was happening, like those odd instants that sometimes immediately follow the death of someone you love, when grief is eclipsed by gratitude that the suffering has ended.

When did it happen and what is that "admission" exactly? Did this dude just realize that there had always been doping in cycling?

 

[Granville57]

http://www.bicycling.com/news/pro-cycling/lance-armstrongs-endgame

This is somethin':

His fervent critics are going to end up frustrated. He might lose his jerseys but I don't think he'll be judged guilty—in a court, anyway—of any crime related to doping, let alone fraud or racketeering. If I'm wrong, there's no legal sentence dire enough to slake their thirst for retribution.

What makes him so sure? I think he has it azzbackwards. I doubt he'll "lose" a single jersey. The other part? I suspect it will turn out quite different.

It's those of us in the middle, the fans, who are stuck trying to make sense of what he's done, trying to decide what to tell our daughters and sons about him.

Jeezus, Bill. Should either of those really be all that difficult?

This is the latest spin.

I see you wasted no time in upsetting the narrative over there.

Interesting...

Indeed. And I'll ask again: When does Floyd get his jersey back?

I can't wait to witness the ensuing meltdown this article will spark from the believers.

 

[Topangarider]

This is the latest spin. Yeah he doped but he "Did a lot of good"

I don't see that assertion here at all. Author does assert that he was a great bike racer but that's different.

The significance of this piece is that it will convince lots of bicycle enthusiasts - not the typical reader of this forum - to face the fact that Lance is a fraud. When I read it online the ad banner up top was a Michelob ad featuring LA. Its good to see the magazine is not afraid to upset advertisers.

 

[BroDeal]

http://www.bicycling.com/news/pro-cycling/lance-armstrongs-endgame

This seems significant to me. Indicative of a major shift in thinking and will undoubtedly influence readers

It is the latest progression in the saddle sniffers attempt to keep the dream alive. They have been slowly inching up on the admission that he doped but are struggling to come up with reasons why it does not matter. The so called journalists who have pimped Armstrong's lies are trying to position themselves so they do not look culpable in aiding the fraud.

As much as they would like to draw comparisons between Merckx or others in the past, they cannot find an example who spent most of his adult life lying about what he did, even to the point of sueing newspapers for telling the truth.

 

[Angliru]

His ultimate legacy most likely is out of our hands. Fans who may not yet be alive will decide who he was. To us, today, Eddy Merckx is the greatest cyclist who ever lived, not a fraud who tested positive for a stimulant while leading the 1969 Giro d'Italia and had his 1973 Giro di Lombardia win stripped for the same. Joop Zoetemelk is the hardman who started and finished 16 Tours—a record—and won one. He's not a reprobate who was caught doping at the 1979 Tour, received a paltry penalty of a 10-minute time addition, and maintained his second-place podium spot. Jacques Anquetil is the five-time Tour winner who in 1961 took the yellow jersey on Stage 1 and wore it all the way to Paris, not a boastful cheater who said, during a French television interview, "Leave me in peace—everybody takes dope." And Fausto Coppi is il campionissimo, the champion of champions, not an admitted doper who said on Italian television that he only took drugs when necessary—"which is nearly always."

http://www.bicycling.com/news/pro-cy...trongs-endgame

That was then, this is now. There is no emotional involvement for most of the current cycling fans with all the cycling legends that are mentioned in that article. Additionally they've almost all come to terms and pretty much admitted to their misdeeds where Armstrong has not. Even his contemporary Ullrich indirectly admitted to it. Armstrong continues to use the "I am beyond reproach" attitude that really leaves him as an easy target. Of course humility is not his strong suit so to think that he will go quietly into the night is not a realistic projection. His is a fate of his own making.

 

[Granville57]

As much as they would like to draw comparisons between Merckx or others in the past, they cannot find an example who spent most of his adult life lying about what he did, even to the point of sueing newspapers for telling the truth.

And building a global brand around the very notion the he "did it clean" (along with FRS of course, in the later years).

 

[Race Radio]

Here is the full article

http://tinyurl.com/4vbgp8t

 

[BroDeal]

I'm not sure I get his reasoning ? He's got nothing tangible to say he doped but somehow
When did it happen and what is that "admission" exactly? Did this dude just realize that there had always been doping in cycling?

That was one of the most weak kneed and limp wristed paragraphs ever written. He did not even have the balls to say that Armstrong made the admission. It is left to the reader to assume it.

In fact that entire article reads like Goebbels making excuses for being part of the Nazi propaganda machine. He brushes over deceiving others in the media, who then went on to spread the lies further, and uses the article to justify how he, someone with unparalleled access and multiple insiders informing him that Armstrong doped, could willfully ignore all the evidence. He does that with an emphasis of how great a bike racer Armstrong was, never asking the obvious questions of how "great" he would have been if he had not been doped to his eyeballs for twenty years.

One thing is sure. If federal investigation blows over and FLandis' lawsuit flounders, this tool will do a one-eighty and gleefully continue to lie for Armstrong as he has for the last ten years.

 

[DirtyWorks]

The Picture!

If anyone at Public Strategies had a brain in their head, they'd create photo ops that look similar to that. I don't know why they are sticking to that 'tough guy comeback' narrative.

In terms of spin control, the timing is about right calculating back to the release of the SI article forward. That, in my limited media experience is about what lead times are like.

Rhodale Press are rabid promoters of the Armstrong myth and very friendly to dopers like Chris Carmichael. Rhodale knows the spin might sell a few more magazines as much as Team Tailwind needed it, so there's ample motivation for Rhodale to do it without talking to anyone at Tailwind.

I frequently argue that Pharmstrong had almost no effect on the cycling industry. Rhodale is the exception. They probably landed one or two Michelob and Nike ads as a result. It didn't make them gazillionares. It kept the doors open a little longer.

If a felony conviction comes down, it will be a teeny tiny paragraph hidden somewhere in the publication. Same goes for velo news. Meanwhile, they will continue their senseless defense of possibly the largest scandal since Pete Rose....

 

[webvan]

Thanks, I thought I had somehow missed something along the way. A tool indeed, and his story about how he recounts asking LA whether he had doped sounds odd. Based on this article and his fanboy or even groupie attitude it's unlikely it ever happened like that. It's funny too how he says that during the 2009 TDF he was considered to be "one of us" and thought he could see everything except the stuff they were hiding...

 

[Race Radio]

I would advise reading the entire 12 page piece and not the small "Teaser" that is online. http://tinyurl.com/4vbgp8t

Yes, it does have some "Apologist' BS in it but it will be hard for even the most ardent groupie to deny the obvious.

Now it will all come down to "I've done a lot of good"....... Disproving that claim will be easier then the doping stuff.

 

[BroDeal]

It is hard not to think that this is Strickland once again aiding Armstrong's fraud. Armstrong needs ready the public for what is coming and a salad tosser like Strickland is just the bootlicker to put the word out.

 

[altark123]

Lance In Washington

In talks with Congress in regards to Cancer. Making some friends who could be important in the near future?


http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/51905.html

 

[Granville57]

I remember seeing Strickland on CNN sometime last year--promoting his book, probably--and he claimed that he, "really believed" that Lance was riding clean in 2009. Of course the unspoken part of that was: it would be in contrast to his previous years. However, the only thing he seemed to be basing he perspective on was his...belief? hope? gut feeling? eternal optimism?
It was never quite clear.

Perhaps he got an"admission" along the lines of, "Yeah, I did. But not this year. I'm gonna show that I can win it clean and then retire for good." Seems he would've believed anything to help keep the dream alive.