Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[Grand Tourist]

Good write up by VeloNews on the incident at CC.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011...midation-is-in-the-eye-of-the-beholder_178739

I think that's a fair assessment. At the moment it's half a dozen of one & six of the other, Hamilton's word vs Armstrong's word scenario. That being said it shows colossally poor judgement on Armstrong's part. Anyone with an ounce of sense in his shoes would have avoided Hamilton like the plague but Armstrong is an arrogant, vain & impulsive man.

He could have avoided all of this by keeping his head down after 2005 (no Livestrong or 'comeback') & 'looking after' old servants fallen on hard times.

 

[blackcat]

Thus far the only thing missing in this episode is for the UCI to launch a lawsuit against Hamilton for damaging the sport by being at Cache Cache.

Likely being filed as I write this.

Dave.

Michael Haneke, the "Last Modernist"

The protagonist of Caché Georges Laurent is for Haneke an embodiment of the denial that has continued to permeate French society in respects to the Algeria France War Crimes and specifically the Paris massacre of 1961o

 

[Granville57]

Hi guys. I have been out riding my bike here...did I miss anything in the last week?

Blah blah blah blah waaa...

Well, some things are still the same.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Hi guys. I have been out riding my bike here...did I miss anything in the last week?

So. D***. Jealous.

 

[Benotti69]

Hi guys. I have been out riding my bike here...did I miss anything in the last week?

Is that Hampsten's place?

 

[Barrus]

Michael Haneke, the "Last Modernist"

Even though this is completely off-topic, but that is a great film

 

[WinterRider]

I'm willing to bet that:

A) Hamilton specifically chose Cache Cache so that he could pee on Lance's territory. A subtle way of saying to Lance that "you can't intimidate me anymore"

B) Lance was not even in town, but upon hearing (from Cache Cache) that said tiger was urinating on said territory, decided to go on a last minute "Cancer Crusade" in the jet (gotta make sure the Jet-A was on the LAF's dime). And hey, whatta ya know, there's Tyler coming out of the bathroom! Hey bud!

Lance can keep his cool to a certain extent, but he wasn't going to let Tyler prowl on HIS territory. And Tyler knew that his visit would get back to Lance. Lance knew that Tyler was f-ing with him, so he amped it up.

The FBI will prove that there was a phone call, Lance received the phone call, gassed up the jet and specifically came to Aspen to make that confrontation. Better chance that Lance will go to jail for THIS than for any doping-related case that arises.

As I have said before, give Lance enough rope, and he's so self-destructive, he'll hang himself. One day at a time.

Keeping it real, that hypothesis is a little ridiculous. Are you actually saying that there was enough time to go to airport, hop on the plane and fly from Tennessee to Colorado and get to the restaurant between the time Tyler showed up and the time they would have finished dinner?

It's 1000 miles from Memphis to Aspen so I'd say that just wrong. Unless it was a 4 hour mulit-course meal, and then there is the slightest chance of this occurring.

The likely scenario is that Lance did his morning ride in Tennessee, which ended at noon. Hopped on the plane home rather than hang out for the night in Tennessee, and then since he'd been away and has lots of money decided to dine out. Hmmm, where would he go? I have seen several accounts that he goes to Cache Cache for dinner 2-3 times a week, so its not even remotely surprising that he ended up there.

Now sure, maybe the restaurant called his house and told him Tyler was there first. But its by no means the only likely explanation for how Lance ended up there.

I am curious to see what the final story of the video cameras is though.

 

[blackcat]

Even though this is completely off-topic, but that is a great film

not as good as Funny Games, which is also a prescient theme now.

English version which he directed too is a pale compare of the original German.

 

[MR_Sarcastic]

I think the whole problem could be solved with a slap fight.

 

[Barrus]

not as good as Funny Games, which is also a prescient theme now.

English version which he directed too is a pale compare of the original German.

meh, I really liked Cache a lot more, I think that has more to do with the cinematography of Cache though, the setting and the shots were perfect in certain instances

 

[Microchip]

Hi guys. I have been out riding my bike here...did I miss anything in the last week?

Nah...nothing at all...

 

[Weapons of @ss Destruction]

Keeping it real, that hypothesis is a little ridiculous. Are you actually saying that there was enough time to go to airport, hop on the plane and fly from Tennessee to Colorado and get to the restaurant between the time Tyler showed up and the time they would have finished dinner?

No, that's not what's they are saying. You must have missed the part where Hamilton had an advance reservation at CC. You may now consider the rest of your post after the text quoted above to be irrelavant.

 

[Granville57]

As much as I hate to break up Siskel & Ebert...

Charles Pelkey weighs in:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/06/news/the-explainer-intimidation-is-in-the-eye-of-the-beholder_178739

The Explainer: Intimidation might be in the eye of the beholder (but the feds make the call)

I would suspect that in the absence of definitive evidence of intimidation, prosecutors may just opt to prevent further such encounters by relying on 18 U.S.C. § 1514 – “Civil action to restrain harassment of a victim or witness.”

That may result in a restraining order that puts down on paper that which Armstrong probably should already know, given the stellar legal team he has in place. With or without a restraining order in place, any lawyer worth his salt will strongly advise any client facing potential criminal charges to cut a wide path around any possible witnesses in that case. Of course, good legal advice ain’t worth much if it ain’t followed.

 

[Benotti69]

As much as I hate to break up Siskel & Ebert...

Charles Pelkey weighs in:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/06/news/the-explainer-intimidation-is-in-the-eye-of-the-beholder_178739

The Explainer: Intimidation might be in the eye of the beholder (but the feds make the call)

I doubt Armstrong listens to his lawyers or even trusts their advice much.

 

[WinterRider]

No, that's not what's they are saying. You must have missed the part where Hamilton had an advance reservation at CC. You may now consider the rest of your post after the text quoted above to be irrelavant.

Hmmm, fair enough. I still say though that Lance would not hang around in Tennessee, and would rather fly home and hit his favourite restaurant.

Another thing to consider is that the reservation may not have been under Tyler's name since he was on a corporate job. Maybe the owners put two and two together, but not necessarily. They are restauranteurs, not cycling fanatics like everyone here.

To be clear, I'm not saying it's impossible, I just think its as likely to be coincidence as not, and saying this is the thing that will land him in jail may be a bit premature.

 

[blackcat]

Let me get this straight:

After all these years, not one single person has ever just wound up and smashed Lance right in the mouth?
How is that even possible?

robbie mcewen was close

 

[WinterRider]

No, that's not what's they are saying. You must have missed the part where Hamilton had an advance reservation at CC. You may now consider the rest of your post after the text quoted above to be irrelavant.

Is it known that there was a reservation in Hamilton's name? I only remember reading that as a theory by some on this board.

My theory would be that the magazine would have made the reservation but if there are some know facts about this in this thread then I have missed them.

 

[BotanyBay]

Keeping it real, that hypothesis is a little ridiculous. Are you actually saying that there was enough time to go to airport, hop on the plane and fly from Tennessee to Colorado and get to the restaurant between the time Tyler showed up and the time they would have finished dinner?

Have you ever heard of "reservations"? None of this was coincidence. I'd be willing to bet that the staff at Cache Cache participated in briefing Lance on Tyler's physical location so that the confrontation could happen. Also, Lance has a history of hopping in the jet and showing up unexpectedly to intimidate people. Lance is a very angry guy.

Why would Cache Cahce let Tyler in the door in the first place (and then later ban him)? Because they needed to make him feel (initially) safe and welcome, so that they could help deliver him on a platter to Lance. If they're so loyal to Lance, then they never would have let Tyler dine there in the first place.

And if there was just a "non-frontation" (as the co-owner maintains), why would it then be required to ban him? Oh yeah, that's right, apparently in addition to being opposed to their good customer Mr. Armstrong, he's also a "lousy tipper". Tyler is smart enough to know that it was no accident that Lance showed up. I wouldn't have tipped either.

Tyler is also smart enough to know that this is where wünderboy once made time with his WIFE. Great "friend", eh?

 

[blackcat]

Tyler is also smart enough to know that this is where wünderboy once made time with his WIFE. Great "friend", eh?

Housewives of Boulder Haven Parchinski offering up a haven for Gunderson?

 

[Weapons of @ss Destruction]

Hmmm, fair enough. I still say though that Lance would not hang around in Tennessee, and would rather fly home and hit his favourite restaurant.

Another thing to consider is that the reservation may not have been under Tyler's name since he was on a corporate job. Maybe the owners put two and two together, but not necessarily. They are restauranteurs, not cycling fanatics like everyone here.

To be clear, I'm not saying it's impossible, I just think its as likely to be coincidence as not, and saying this is the thing that will land him in jail may be a bit premature.

I'm OK to just let the FBI continue their investigation into the matter and come to whatever conclusion is supporting by the evidence and their findings. You're welcome to continue speculating though.

 

[mewmewmew13]

robbie mcewen was close

Would love to have been a fly nearby this exchange.
I don't remember the details...any links for a refresher?

 

[blackcat]

Would love to have been a fly nearby this exchange.
I don't remember the details...any links for a refresher?

StrongArm Gunderson was not happy at Mcewen's team riding, think they were either defending their jersey, or pursuing a break for a field sprint. They were riding. Gunderson did not want them riding, or the peloton riding, he thought he was the patriarch of the peloton.

Mcewen told him to STFU or he would shut his mouth with his fist.

so goes the story, tho one does not put out of possibly this is entirely apocryphal. Good story tho.

 

[mewmewmew13]

StrongArm Gunderson was not happy at Mcewen's team riding, think they were either defending their jersey, or pursuing a break for a field sprint. They were riding. Gunderson did not want them riding, or the peloton riding, he thought he was the patriarch of the peloton.

Mcewen told him to STFU or he would shut his mouth with his fist.

so goes the story, tho one does not put out of possibly this is entirely apocryphal. Good story tho.

love that story because I really like Robbie! thnx.

 

[altark123]

OMG. Not a crime to destroy evidence to federal witness tampering? Unless the authorities asked for it first?? What planet are you on?


Oh, the gun that man was shot with was my personal property. So I chose to melt it down, officer. You ain't got nothin' on me now -- no law against that, right?

Yeah, um; doesn't work that way. Obstruction of justice. Tampering with physical evidence. And in this case, preceded by aiding and abetting federal witness intimidation. How many crimes is that in itself? A few subpoenaed phone records, and the proof of intent is well enough established to raise the possibility of charges of Obstruction of Justice (Witness Tampering)...

...By intimidation (18 U.S.C. 1512(b))
...By destruction of evidence (18 U.S.C. 1512(c))
...By harassment (18 U.S.C. 1512(d))

These are all separate Federal crimes, i.e. all separate charges, separate punishments.

Here's a listing of the Federal statutes, with explanations. And here's NY's version of the relevant felony statute for evidence tampering, for one -- I suspect it's either verbatim or nearly so for CO, as it's boilerplate stuff throughout the land. Note that the evidence need not have yet been produced... Prospective evidence is entirely within its scope, prior to any official investigation or proceeding.


Not into playing legal expert at all, but come on, this is just common knowledge: You don't get to destroy potential evidence to a crime just because it suits you. God, I would have hoped that was common knowledge, anyway..

You misunderstood what I meant. IF they had reason to believe the confrontation was in violation of some law then they may well be in trouble. But, since Lance has not technically been indicted or charged with any crime, they can say they had no idea any witness tampering took place. Thus, if they are unaware, the tapes are theirs to do what they will with.

You all act as if you know what is going on with these tapes or what happened with them, but it is all pure conjecture.

Unless they were served a warrant for the tapes and then destroyed them, or it can be proven that they knew a crime took place, no obstruction of justice can be proven.

 

[Granville57]

Unless they were served a warrant for the tapes and then destroyed them, or it can be proven that they knew a crime took place, no obstruction of justice can be proven.

It seems they did just that.

Charles Pelkey weighs in:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/06/news/the-explainer-intimidation-is-in-the-eye-of-the-beholder_178739

The FBI got involved and acted quickly, interviewing the owner of the restaurant, Armstrong friend Jodi Larner, and informing her that digital files from the restaurant’s closed circuit surveillance video system would be subject to a subpoena and needed to be preserved.