Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[altark123]

It seems they did just that.

Hmm well I don't pretend to be a legal expert, but is a spoken statement legally binding? Can the FBI say this WILL, IN THE FUTURE be subject to warrant or subpoena? I was always under the impression that if the government wanted to legally possess something, they had to have it then and there. Otherwise, you are not legally compelled to do anything.

 

[Weapons of @ss Destruction]

love that story because I really like Robbie! thnx.

At least until he went with the RS contract. "You went full Horner, man. Never go full Horner."

I can understand that he's trying to squeeze whatever he can out of his income potential now since his shelf date is getting awfully close to expiry. Just more proof of how easily many people can be bought.

 

[Cerberus]

Hmm well I don't pretend to be a legal expert, but is a spoken statement legally binding? Can the FBI say this WILL, IN THE FUTURE be subject to warrant or subpoena? I was always under the impression that if the government wanted to legally possess something, they had to have it then and there. Otherwise, you are not legally compelled to do anything.

An indication of intent to serve a warrant certainly doesn't obligate him to hand anything over, but there's no way, having been informed of this that he cannot know that the tapes would be evidence. Even if he hadn't been so informed there's still the question of why exactly he would destroy the tapes except to eliminate evidence. "I just randomly felt like destroying the specific tapes which contains the material in question. Why? Oh, just felt like it" is unlikely to convince anyone. Of cause to my knowledge there's no proof yet that any tapes have ever existed, but if they did I suspect the owner of CC is in fairly serious trouble.

 

[mewmewmew13]

At least until he went with the RS contract. "You went full Horner, man. Never go full Horner."

I can understand that he's trying to squeeze whatever he can out of his income potential now since his shelf date is getting awfully close to expiry. Just more proof of how easily many people can be bought.

I hear you but I think he was pretty much stuck in a hard place. With Peg falling through and last minute options slim, he needed a quick landing.
I wish he weren't just about to retire...he deserves better than the Shack.

 

[Hugh Januss]

This must be a rethorical question.
We all know that the worlds stands still and is waiting for RR coming back to enlighten us all and provide us with extreme precise news and predictions.

And the minute he returns, his #1 fanboy is here to welcome him.

 

[ShawnB]

Hmm well I don't pretend to be a legal expert, but is a spoken statement legally binding? Can the FBI say this WILL, IN THE FUTURE be subject to warrant or subpoena? I was always under the impression that if the government wanted to legally possess something, they had to have it then and there. Otherwise, you are not legally compelled to do anything.

Look, I'm sorry, but you're just not getting it.

Read the second link I provided which gives in clear language the terms validated by evidence tampering statute(s), and then post.

It directly answers your question.


I'll even (gulp) take a stab at paraphrasing, in case you choose, again, not to read what was given you:

It is the burden of any citizen to NOT DESTROY physical material that may have bearing on a future case, REGARDLESS of whether any official proceeding, investigation, inquiry or communication from authorities HAS YET taken place.


Is that clear enough? Your 'impression' is not terribly relevant; the FBI has taken this up, and the Federal laws on the books that they use to guide their actions are not 'conjecture'. It is also not 'conjecture' that they report that they absolutely are pursuing it. That tells me that the laws cited above are exactly what's in play, and I'm glad they so specifically disallow the kind of excuses you offer as a potential way out for Lerner, Armstrong, et al. They are not a way out.

Doesn't mean they'll ultimately have enough to file charges, of course. But it's not a grey area, full of soft-headed impressions about what can or can't be done in this case.

 

[BullsFan22]

StrongArm Gunderson was not happy at Mcewen's team riding, think they were either defending their jersey, or pursuing a break for a field sprint. They were riding. Gunderson did not want them riding, or the peloton riding, he thought he was the patriarch of the peloton.

Mcewen told him to STFU or he would shut his mouth with his fist.

so goes the story, tho one does not put out of possibly this is entirely apocryphal. Good story tho.

This??

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/07/21/1026898948562.html

 

[Edgar Poe]

You misunderstood what I meant. IF they had reason to believe the confrontation was in violation of some law then they may well be in trouble. But, since Lance has not technically been indicted or charged with any crime, they can say they had no idea any witness tampering took place. Thus, if they are unaware, the tapes are theirs to do what they will with.

You all act as if you know what is going on with these tapes or what happened with them, but it is all pure conjecture.

Unless they were served a warrant for the tapes and then destroyed them, or it can be proven that they knew a crime took place, no obstruction of justice can be proven.

I could see your point under certain circumstances. 1) Some security recordings are on a 24hr. cycle and old footage continually gets recorded over. 2) The restaurant may have a regularly scheduled time to delete recordings. In such a case, I can see them saying, "Our records show that over the past 4 years, our restaruant policy has been that old recordings get deleted every Friday night at closing time by senior management. Since we thought this was a non-event it didn't even occur to us to halt the regularly scheduled deletion."

If the recordings are not on a regular schedule, then Cache Cache has some explaining to do. I would image the restaurant has some sort of policy for deleting recordings. They are, after all, security recordings. I doubt they get deleted at random times or when the waitstaff wants to free up some hard drive space to download music. Probably, the management is the only one with access. I have a very hard time believing they don't generally hold recordings for a period of time. The whole point of security recordings is that you can GO BACK in time to see what happened. Do you really think they delete each recording day that same night? It was totally obvious within 24hrs. that this was a big story. Their phone must have been ringing off the hook the next day. I doubt they will get away with "Whoopsie, my bad. I guess I picked a bad night to delete the recording. Sorry 'bout that."

 

[altark123]

Look, I'm sorry, but you're just not getting it.

Read the second link I provided which gives in clear language the terms validated by evidence tampering statute(s), and then post.

It directly answers your question.


I'll even (gulp) take a stab at paraphrasing, in case you choose, again, not to read what was given you:

It is the burden of any citizen to NOT DESTROY physical material that may have bearing on a future case, REGARDLESS of whether any official proceeding, investigation, inquiry or communication from authorities HAS YET taken place.


Is that clear enough? Your 'impression' is not terribly relevant; the FBI has taken this up, and the Federal laws on the books that they use to guide their actions are not 'conjecture'. It is also not 'conjecture' that they report that they absolutely are pursuing it. That tells me that the laws cited above are exactly what's in play, and I'm glad they so specifically disallow the kind of excuses you offer as a potential way out for Lerner, Armstrong, et al. They are not a way out.

Doesn't mean they'll ultimately have enough to file charges, of course. But it's not a grey area, full of soft-headed impressions about what can or can't be done in this case.

Ok, thanks, we'll see.

 

[Velodude]

LA and the Harpeth River Ride in TN - 12 June 2011

Just looked at the website for the Harpeth River Ride in which LA participated on the Saturday in Tennessee before the "confrontation" with TH in CacheCache restaurant in Aspen that night.

The website (http://harpethriverride.com/) informs that LA's participation was only made known on 6 June 2011 - 6 days earlier.

Youtube videos evidence that the 100 mile group including LA and other RS riders was undertaken at a leisurely pace.

LA came in 129th without any time recorded against his name in the official results. However times recorded for those in the 120's was 9 hours + and consistent with the pedestrian pace of the videos.

Youtube videos also show LA making the presentations after the event.

A very long day in Tennessee after a late official notification of presence.

TH would certainly be comforted that under those circumstances LA would not be in Aspen that night at his favourite haunt.

 

[Granville57]

This??

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/07/21/1026898948562.html

Nice find.

After another altercation on this Tour, McEwen was quoted as saying to the defending champion,
"Shut your mouth or I'll fill it with my fist".

Cooke, who beat McEwen on the line to grab some points in the competition himself, said he had not seen evidence of his compatriot's feud with Armstrong first hand.

"I haven't seen it personally," he said. "If it's happening, I guess it's not good for Robbie. But I guess you make powerful enemies."

Considering StrongArm's penchant for endlessly holding a grudge, Robbie's presence on Shack is curious.

 

[Edgar Poe]

Just looked at the website for the Harpeth River Ride in which LA participated on the Saturday in Tennessee before the "confrontation" with TH in CacheCache restaurant in Aspen that night.

The website (http://harpethriverride.com/) informs that LA's participation was only made known on 6 June 2011 - 6 days earlier.

Youtube videos evidence that the 100 mile group including LA and other RS riders was undertaken at a leisurely pace.

LA came in 129th without any time recorded against his name in the official results. However times recorded for those in the 120's was 9 hours + and consistent with the pedestrian pace of the videos.

Youtube videos also show LA making the presentations after the event.

A very long day in Tennessee after a late official notification of presence.

TH would certainly be comforted that under those circumstances LA would not be in Aspen that night at his favourite haunt.

The Feds should be able to determine if Lance changed his plans abruptly. If he got a call from a friend in Aspen, then canceled a flight to Austin to book a new flight to Aspen - well that doesn't look good.

On the other hand, it wouldn't surprise me if the Aspen trip was part of his original schedule. Lance at times has a hectic schedule and is accustomed to traveling a lot. Sometimes celebrities do an event and fly out that night. The guy has flown countless miles, its just routine. Perhaps after an eventful two weeks, he wanted to start relaxing in Aspen asap.

I think what got him to Aspen could go either way. What occured at the restaurant and what happened to the recordings smells a bit worse at this point.

 

[Benotti69]

The Feds should be able to determine if Lance changed his plans abruptly. If he got a call from a friend in Aspen, then canceled a flight to Austin to book a new flight to Aspen - well that doesn't look good.

On the other hand, it wouldn't surprise me if the Aspen trip was part of his original schedule. Lance at times has a hectic schedule and is accustomed to traveling a lot. Sometimes celebrities do an event and fly out that night. The guy has flown countless miles, its just routine. Perhaps after an eventful two weeks, he wanted to start relaxing in Aspen asap.

I think what got him to Aspen could go either way. What occured at the restaurant and what happened to the recordings smells a bit worse at this point.

How do you know?

Spot the intern!!!!

 

[BullsFan22]

Nice find.



Considering StrongArm's penchant for endlessly holding a grudge, Robbie's presence on Shack is curious.

Yeah, I wonder about that myself. It's not like that feud was during one stage, there was tension for years. I wonder if Robbie was just handed an offer he could not refuse. Having said that, they have had a couple of charity rides in Australia this past January, and may be planning more. Weird. I guess had Robbie gone the Simeoni route, there would still be a rift, lol.

 

[Edgar Poe]

How do you know?

Spot the intern!!!!

Gimme a break. The guy is a manipulative, lying, vindictive, narcissistic, cheating doper. I hope he gets held accountable for his past actions.

Yet he is a manipulative, lying, cheat with an active schedule. He films commercials, fund raises, bike events etc. It would not surprise me at all for a wealthy celebrity to fly out the night after a day event.

As I said, it could go either way. It should not be hard at all for the Feds to determined if Lance changed plans abruptly to get to Aspen.

 

[Polish]

Nice find.

Considering StrongArm's penchant for endlessly holding a grudge, Robbie's presence on Shack is curious.

"endlessly holding a grudge" - what a myth blah blah
"Lance has no friends, only employees" - thats a funny one too.
"Lance flushed Floyd's Blood"
"Lance was transformed by witness tampering"

Endlessly entertaining, that what it is lol.

Anyway, Robbie discusses Lance recently here yikes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5c-cYfDm2r0

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Nice find.



Considering StrongArm's penchant for endlessly holding a grudge, Robbie's presence on Shack is curious.

I don't think teams were beating down his door this winter. Lack of choice I suspect. Who else wanted/needed an ageing sprinter?

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

"endlessly holding a grudge" - what a myth blah blah
"Lance has no friends, only employees" - thats a funny one too.
"Lance flushed Floyd's Blood"
"Lance was transformed by witness tampering"

Endlessly entertaining, that what it is lol.

Anyway, Robbie discusses Lance recently here yikes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5c-cYfDm2r0

Never bite the hand that feeds...

Nice face-touch at 5:02. Psychoanalysis anyone?

 

[Cyclist Encoders]

Nice find.



Considering StrongArm's penchant for endlessly holding a grudge, Robbie's presence on Shack is curious.

I think LA has a pragmantic side to him. You can't get as successful as he has by just being some crazy psycho. Even with this Tyler incident, we forget that Tyler has been given immunity to essentially testify against Armstrong and possibly put him in jail. If we were in LA's shoes and had a former team mate do that to us, I think we would be pretty teed off about it. Having a few quiet words outside the restroom is pretty restrained.

 

[Edgar Poe]

I think LA has a pragmantic side to him. You can't get as successful as he has by just being some crazy psycho. Even with this Tyler incident, we forget that Tyler has been given immunity to essentially testify against Armstrong and possibly put him in jail. If we were in LA's shoes and had a former team mate do that to us, I think we would be pretty teed off about it. Having a few quiet words outside the restroom is pretty restrained.

Unless those words were "my lawyers will destroy you on the witness stand and make your life a living hell".

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

I think LA has a pragmantic side to him. You can't get as successful as he has by just being some crazy psycho. Even with this Tyler incident, we forget that Tyler has been given immunity to essentially testify against Armstrong and possibly put him in jail. If we were in LA's shoes and had a former team mate do that to us, I think we would be pretty teed off about it. Having a few quiet words outside the restroom is pretty restrained.

And yet still a felony...

The man's too big to even listen to his council. Forget the fanboys going full ***, he's got that covered all by himself.

 

[sniper]

I think LA has a pragmantic side to him. You can't get as successful as he has by just being some crazy psycho. Even with this Tyler incident, we forget that Tyler has been given immunity to essentially testify against Armstrong and possibly put him in jail. If we were in LA's shoes and had a former team mate do that to us, I think we would be pretty teed off about it. Having a few quiet words outside the restroom is pretty restrained.

+1
LA must indeed have been a pragmatician. Keeping his teammates happy. Imposing omerta. Ties with the UCI. Good relationships with other teams, no doubt.
The anecdote with McEwen also once more shows that Armstrong surely wasn't the most aggressive out there in the peloton.
Of course, what he did to Simeoni is unforgivable and a sign of aggression, but I don't think Armstrong has ever literally used his fists, unlike several others in the peloton.

I do think, though, that the TH-Aspen-issue might be a sign that LA is losing his composure.

 

[Cyclist Encoders]

Unless those words were "my lawyers will destroy you on the witness stand and make your life a living hell".

Tyler should explain what he was doing there as well. Turning up to LA's regular local hangout on the basis he thought he might not be there could be seen as interfering and provocative. I think the feds would be foolish to come down hard on Armstrong without taking this into account.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

+1
LA must indeed have been a pragmatician. Keeping his teammates happy. Imposing omerta. Ties with the UCI. Good relationships with other teams, no doubt.
The anecdote with McEwen also once more shows that Armstrong surely wasn't the most aggressive out there in the peloton.
Of course, what he did to Simeoni is unforgivable and a sign of aggression, but I don't think Armstrong has ever literally used his fists, unlike several others in the peloton.

I do think, though, that the TH-Aspen-issue might be a sign that LA is losing his composure.

That might be because the one time he tried he got his **** handed to him by Gilles Bouvard.

 

[Cyclist Encoders]

What I'd like to see now is Floyd show up to eat at Cache Cache, as I don't think he'd walk away so quietly.

Landis plays hardball with people who give testimony he doesn't like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDAoqK9SiC0