Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[doolols]

I mean, let's be honest, would you rather have an athlete who doped, had a big ego and could be an a-hole, or those same traits but raped someone or shot someone?

Are those the only two choices? You offer a ridiculous comparison.

I'd rather have an athlete who was honest, or if he was doping (because everyone does it, blah blah blah) then to keep quiet about it. Humility is not his strong point. In fact, it doesn't feature anywhere in his makeup. It does in others, but he is a complete a-hole, always was, but now when the net is closing in, it sounds less confidence and more arrogance.

 

[Neworld]

I think ..

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Dude, I just said "try this". wow.

1) Why do you feel the need to stoop to trying to make it sound like I posted things I did not post? Where did I say anything about not being able to earn any money or that you are forgotten the day you finish? That's amateurish, childish and hypocritical as you are doing exactly what you rip anyone who does not agree with you guys 100% for.

I interpreted you saying that 'a retired athlete usually drops off the popularity chart anyway..." The quick reference I found does not agree with you. Rather that insulting me, find some quotes, facts, stats that show otherwise.

2) He retired nearly a year ago...from a very low rated niche sport in the US. A huge drop is nothing special.

That is what we're discussing, you opinion is noted. The rest of the world can have a opinion too even if it is not towing your party line, what a concept.

3) What does Armstrong's behavior have to do with what I posted? Nothing, it is simply a way for you to avoid the truth.

I was referring to the B. Gifford CBC posting above, not sure why that sent you off.

You and your buddies constantly talk about him This thread is over 1000 pages. You guys attack and insult anyone who does not agree with everything you say in threads about Armstrong but don't do that in other doping threads. It sure doesn't sound like he is irrelevant...at least in the minds of you and your buddies.

Lance is one of the biggest cycling cheats of all time. This is a Lance thread and once in a while new info is added. Things will heat up a lot more, at that time you'll predictably disappear.

Lance was and is using cancer funding for personal gain, does that seem ethical or compatible with contemporary society to you? If yes, you need some guidance. Of all the cheats in the last 10 years, winning 7 GTs in a row (clearly impossible) he has gained the most, has the most hubris and as such attracts the most attention when one particular cheat should be persecuted. That is why my little buddy. Lance will be irrelevant in good time.

NW

 

[Louison]

Are those the only two choices? You offer a ridiculous comparison.

I'd rather have an athlete who was honest, or if he was doping (because everyone does it, blah blah blah) then to keep quiet about it. Humility is not his strong point. In fact, it doesn't feature anywhere in his makeup. It does in others, but he is a complete a-hole, always was, but now when the net is closing in, it sounds less confidence and more arrogance.

1) Nice job picking out just one item and ignoring the rest. Par for the course around here when it comes to responding to someone not condemning Armstrong for everything and anything.

2) No, it's not a ridiculous comparison because it is keeping it in the context of what is being discussed, not moving to examples totally outside of anything related.

3) Can you show me proof that humility "doesn't feature anywhere in his makeup?" Are you someone in contact with him all the time, so you see him in all types of situations? I am not attacking you just trying to provide some perspective about making such sweeping statements. I'll just post one thing from him, that is proof that he does have some humility:
"I think I bit off more than I could chew, I thought the marathon would be easier...I could barely walk..." He also admitted that the marathon was the "hardest physical thing [he had] ever done", even compared to the Tour de France. "I don't know how these guys do it," he said in reference to marathoners.

 

[Neworld]

I always find these kind of comments kind of funny, and normally from people have never done lots of high level bike racing.

Fat, you have no idea what I have done in cycling or in other high level sports. I have no idea about your abilities either. That has nothing to do with what I described Lance saying.

Lance was basically saying "Lady, I was thinking all those other people with cancer around me were going to die, not me." If you cannot conceptualize that I cannot help you. He demonstrates psychopathic tendencies, bullying...the list has been stated before.

From his outlook your mind has to be the strongest tool you have, never cracking . Lance's biggest problem is that he talks to regular people that have no idea of the intense mental anguish...

Fat, I know many professional athletes who have suffered just like Lancey, if all kinds of sports, but without all the dope. For the most part they are humble, reasonable, and likable people. Just because you're a top athlete is no excuse to be a d1ckhead.

NW

 

[fatandfast]

.

Dude, I just said "try this". wow.



I interpreted you saying that 'a retired athlete usually drops off the popularity chart anyway..." The quick reference I found does not agree with you. Rather that insulting me, find some quotes, facts, stats that show otherwise.



That is what we're discussing, you opinion is noted. The rest of the world can have a opinion too even if it is not towing your party line, what a concept.



I was referring to the B. Gifford CBC posting above, not sure why that sent you off.



Lance is one of the biggest cycling cheats of all time. This is a Lance thread and once in a while new info is added. Things will heat up a lot more, at that time you'll predictably disappear.

Lance was and is using cancer funding for personal gain, does that seem ethical or compatible with contemporary society to you? If yes, you need some guidance. Of all the cheats in the last 10 years, winning 7 GTs in a row (clearly impossible) he has gained the most, has the most hubris and as such attracts the most attention when one particular cheat should be persecuted. That is why my little buddy. Lance will be irrelevant in good time.

NW

you should probably brush up on US tax code and go over non profits of a similar size to livestrong. After that it may be a good idea to go over pro bike racing history,. what rules have been in place and for how long. If Lance's drug use qualifies him as one of the biggest cheats within the sport you bias has blinded you. Drugs have always been part of the sport. Rules and there enforcement have widely varied in bike racing history.
Coppi was a guy crushed by pre internet press. He was an outcast with lots of his country and the mighty Catholic church. The pope had press conferences about his behavior. In early bike racing drugs were very wide spread and not against the rules. Armstrong is hardly the worst guy historically to race a bike for a living

 

[Neworld]

Does it?

1) Is it really selfish to be thinking about only your own fight when it comes to having a disease like cancer? I don't think I have heard a doctor who does not say to focus on your own fight.

Dude, I think you might suffer from the same lack of insight and insensitivity that Lance does. No MD tells their patients to focus on their own fight at the EXPENSE of others. Are you really saying that Lance, or anyone, should be so selfish when dealing with cancer to think everyone else will succumb to the disease but not them? That's acceptable in you view? Wow.

NW

 

[Neworld]

After that it may be a good idea to go over pro bike racing history,. what rules have been in place and for how long. If Lance's drug use qualifies him as one of the biggest cheats within the sport you bias has blinded you.

I defy you to find another cyclist who does more to cheating and dishonorable winning than Lance

Bullying
individual doping
Team doping
Collusion with race officials
UCI payoffs
the list goes on, well documented in the post upthread.

Prove me wrong. Who are all these other cyclists that have done as much as Lance. cricket, cricket

NW

 

[Louison]

.

Dude, I just said "try this". wow.

Why do you say "wow?" I simply pointed something out.

I interpreted you saying that 'a retired athlete usually drops off the popularity chart anyway..." The quick reference I found does not agree with you. Rather that insulting me, find some quotes, facts, stats that show otherwise.




That is what we're discussing, you opinion is noted. The rest of the world can have a opinion too even if it is not towing your party line, what a concept.



I was referring to the B. Gifford CBC posting above, not sure why that sent you off.

1) I suggest you do a better job of reading posts and seeing who is being responded to...or are you actually a sock puppet of thehog?

2) You need to go back and read my full quote and perhaps, if you actually want to, you will see that I did not simply say "'a retired athlete usually drops off the popularity chart anyway..."

3) Take a look in the mirror when it comes to people who do not toe the line (it is toe, not tow as the idiom is about conforming to standards, like standing right on the line and not about pulling a line) as you and your buddies can't stand it and insult/attack anyone who does not toe that anti-Armstrong line.

4) This last part has nothing to do with an article and everything to do with thehog evading me calling him out for the way him and his buddies act towards anyone who does not follow them 100%.

Lance is one of the biggest cycling cheats of all time. This is a Lance thread and once in a while new info is added. Things will heat up a lot more, at that time you'll predictably disappear.

Perhaps he is or perhaps he isn't, at this point we don't know if that is true. Though I do wonder how you can make a case anyone is one of the biggest cheats when you don't have all the facts on him and on everyone he competed against. Please note that I am not saying he did not cheat just commenting on you using absolutes again.

Lance was and is using cancer funding for personal gain, does that seem ethical or compatible with contemporary society to you? If yes, you need some guidance. Of all the cheats in the last 10 years, winning 7 GTs in a row (clearly impossible) he has gained the most, has the most hubris and as such attracts the most attention when one particular cheat should be persecuted. That is why my little buddy. Lance will be irrelevant in good time.

NW

Perhaps he will be irrelevant, but, as much time as you guys spend being angry on this forum and others and if he is such a horrible person and as bad of a cheater as you guys make him out to be I don't think that will be the case.

 

[Louison]

Dude, I think you might suffer from the same lack of insight and insensitivity that Lance does. No MD tells their patients to focus on their own fight at the EXPENSE of others. Are you really saying that Lance, or anyone, should be so selfish when dealing with cancer to think everyone else will succumb to the disease but not them? That's acceptable in you view? Wow.

NW

Where did Armstrong say anything in your quote about fighting cancer at the expense of others? Where did he say anything about everyone else dieing except him? As a matter of fact, you quoted him as saying "may die," do you not understand what the word "may" means?

You are really reaching now in your bid to try to assign things that aren't there in order to make Armstrong be as evil as possible. It looks a lot like my comments in another thread are being proven true.

 

[Neworld]

Where did Armstrong say anything in your quote about fighting cancer at the expense of others? Where did he say anything about everyone else dieing except him? As a matter of fact, you quoted him as saying "may die," do you not understand what the word "may" means?

You are really reaching now in your bid to try to assign things that aren't there in order to make Armstrong be as evil as possible. It looks a lot like my comments in another thread are being proven true.

I'm actually laughing, far from anger. You're right Lance is very noble and a true idol. I can see that you are such a great debater. I will allow you to prove yourself, and Lance's cause, as I watch from afar. I'm will step out of this one, one 'toe' at a time.

NW

 

[fatandfast]

I defy you to find another cyclist who does more to cheating and dishonorable winning than Lance

Bullying
individual doping
Team doping
Collusion with race officials
UCI payoffs
the list goes on, well documented in the post upthread.

Prove me wrong. Who are all these other cyclists that have done as much as Lance. cricket, cricket

NW

what ratios should I use, compared with other 7 time tour winners? Compare his income stream from other bike racers that have started non profits and numerous foundations? Should use Lance,inventor of a yellow rubber wrist band compared to..who? or what? If you read anything about Armstrong people thought he was a pr1ck when he was in high school. The only thing that changed was he kept increasing in age and ego and things continued to progress.
You could read just some about Eddy if you raced negative with him he hooked you, he gave you an appointment with the pavement for not pulling thru. Armstrong is hardly big enough to be a very effective bully unless Tyler is your target.Simoni was also 125 pounds of frightened manhood so being a bully is relative. The winners write the history. If you hate bullies Karpets hooking Contador probably got you really upset. Then Alberto punched some guy wearing hospital scrubs and a surgical mask. Talk about bullies. Cadel even punched a few guys , the nerve

 

[Neworld]

what ratios ...

I even gave you broad categories ... start there.

Bullying
Individual doping
Phantom coachs (C. Carmicheal)
Exclusive services of a banned Medical Doctor
Team doping - someone who orchestrates the team doping
Collusion with race officials
UCI payoffs... I'll stop there so you're not overwhelmed.

Give me the doper who has done all those items, no one or two, all of those things. You sound very confident about amassing a long list, if the list is more than 10 feel free to stop. Ok, just give us 5, or 3...give us something. Take your time.

NW

 

[fatandfast]

Fat, you have no idea what I have done in cycling or in other high level sports. I have no idea about your abilities either. That has nothing to do with what I described Lance saying.

Lance was basically saying "Lady, I was thinking all those other people with cancer around me were going to die, not me." If you cannot conceptualize that I cannot help you. He demonstrates psychopathic tendencies, bullying...the list has been stated before.



Fat, I know many professional athletes who have suffered just like Lancey, if all kinds of sports, but without all the dope. For the most part they are humble, reasonable, and likable people. Just because you're a top athlete is no excuse to be a d1ckhead.

NW

I totally understand some of your opinions about Lance's. I have been around lots of bike racers, they turn bowling,surfing,hiking anything into a sufferfest.

It would appear that LA goes balls to the wall in everything he does, from mowing the lawn to talking to people about therapy. Bike racers are not know for their sensitivity. Guys that fall on pavement or get replaced if they get sick are not good points of reference for cancer patients in my opinion.

You are totally wrong about what you can and can't be as a top athlete. Read about any top athletes and it will be in repeat mode. Surrounded by yes people, social graces are not important as long as the athletic results are there. You should read some of the Dock Ellis throwing a no hitter while on LSD. He talks about the pressures of trying to figure out how to stay in the game at the top level. Armstrong was probably even more insecure knowing that everybody was gunning to dethrone him. Turns out he was right. Tyler and Flandis took his money,laughed at his jokes, partied with him who knows what else and when things went wrong in their lives, they were the first to jam a knife in his back.
Had Landis not got popped he would have been one of the directors at Radio Shack without a doubt. Maybe you just know different athletes than I do,skaters,surfers, football and baseball players I know all took drugs at one time or another.
I remember when Tiger Woods was coming back the first time from his knee problems and he had the blood spinning doctor come and give him a "treatment". The FBI chased him all the way to Canada from Florida.

I would love to see you apply some of your bad people theory on Kobe or Ron Artest or some of the NFL players that have been involved with murders,like Ray Lewis. Not only is being a top athlete a reason to be a d1ckhead the owners have lawyers to prove the point.

 

[Louison]

I'm actually laughing, far from anger.

The typical response when someone gets mad and then gets called on it.

You're right Lance is very noble and a true idol.

Just another item I never said but you either claim I did or imply that I did. Ethics, read up on it.

I can see that you are such a great debater.

Compared to your style of spinning, ignoring, and flat out lying I probably am.

I will allow you to prove yourself, and Lance's cause, as I watch from afar.

Ah, yes, the usual tactic of throw out an insult when you can't figure out how to spin your way out of the BS you have been called on. The best part is that you will keep reading and be dying to respond.

I'm will step out of this one, one 'toe' at a time.

NW

Wow, someone seems a bit miffed that I pointed out that it is toe and not tow. Imagine the response if I had done it in a way that was insulting.

Oh, I am very surprised that this discussion has gotten this far since my initial responses to you had no malice whatsoever...but yours immediately did.

Now run along, you're done.

 

[BroDeal]

Perhaps he will be irrelevant, but, as much time as you guys spend being angry on this forum and others and if he is such a horrible person and as bad of a cheater as you guys make him out to be I don't think that will be the case.

That is a stunning piece of logic there. We should engrave that one in the hall of fame.

You guys certainly do go mad about people telling the truth about Armstrong. Did you ever consider calling one of those cult deprogramming services. You might want to look into it.

Do you think you will have any more credibility here than DPF?

 

[MarkvW]

I would love to see you apply some of your bad people theory on Kobe or Ron Artest or some of the NFL players that have been involved with murders,like Ray Lewis. Not only is being a top athlete a reason to be a d1ckhead the owners have lawyers to prove the point.

I've always liked the comparison of Lance Armstrong to Ty Cobb.

 

[BroDeal]

I've always liked the comparison of Lance Armstrong to Ty Cobb.

Ty Cobb may have been an a-hole, but he earned his athletic accomplishments. Armstrong is an a-hole who cheated his way to his accomplishments. Not a very good comparison at all. Armstrong's entire career is a fraud.

 

[MarkvW]

Ty Cobb make have been an a-hole, but he earned his athletic accomplishments. Armstrong is an a-hole who cheated his way to his accomplishments. Not a very good comparison at all. Armstrong's entire career is a fraud.

Yeah. Armstrong cheated all the clean teams in the pro peloton. Unfortunately, there were no clean teams in the pro peloton.

 

[doolols]

Yeah. Armstrong cheated all the clean teams in the pro peloton. Unfortunately, there were no clean teams in the pro peloton.

No, he cheated all of his fans who believed him when he said he was clean.

 

[doolols]

1) Nice job picking out just one item and ignoring the rest. Par for the course around here .. <snip>

Never mind. Get over it. You post something, I'm free to quote what I like.

2) No, it's not a ridiculous comparison because it is keeping it in the context of what is being discussed, not moving to examples totally outside of anything related.

Were we discussing cyclists being rapists? Must have missed that.

3) Can you show me proof that humility "doesn't feature anywhere in his makeup?"

Nope.
a) I don't have to. It's my opinion, based on many pieces of audio and written statements.
b) Life's too short to go searching for bits of information for you.

 

[Benotti69]

I even gave you broad categories ... start there.

Bullying
Individual doping
Phantom coachs (C. Carmicheal)
Exclusive services of a banned Medical Doctor
Team doping - someone who orchestrates the team doping
Collusion with race officials
UCI payoffs... I'll stop there so you're not overwhelmed.

Give me the doper who has done all those items, no one or two, all of those things. You sound very confident about amassing a long list, if the list is more than 10 feel free to stop. Ok, just give us 5, or 3...give us something. Take your time.

NW

Can any of the Lance defenders respond to this and prove the level playing field argument?


I doubt anyone of you will bother, you will just post more inane posts trying to obfuscate the thread at which you constantly fail in your mission to derail the thread.

Y'all forgot your old arguments;

Never tested positive
heart bigger than normal
huge vo2 max
cancer changed his body
6 hours a day busting his *** on his bike
researching the crucial stages
credibility
done too much good

 

[Louison]

Never mind. Get over it. You post something, I'm free to quote what I like.

In other words you know what you did was wrong and have no defense for it.

Were we discussing cyclists being rapists? Must have missed that.

Ok, if you are going to be involved in a discussion as least have the common courtesy to know what is being discussed instead of flailing about blindly.

Nope.
a) I don't have to. It's my opinion, based on many pieces of audio and written statements.
b) Life's too short to go searching for bits of information for you.

a) I posted a quote that makes it clear that he has at least some humility...and you ignore it. Just another example of what I have discussed about the anti-Armstrong crowd.

b) Why would you post this when you already said you can't? Oh, yeah, because, in the face of proof that your statement was false you have to try to get in a shot rather then admit you took things too far. You guys are so predictable in your hate for Armstrong. You guys should ride your bikes once in a while and maybe you would not have such irrational, festering anger for someone you do not even know.

 

[Race Radio]

You guys are so predictable in your hate for Armstrong. You guys should ride your bikes once in a while and maybe you would not have such irrational, festering anger for someone you do not even know.

Wow, I have never heard that before

Heading out for 5 hours right now. How about you?

 

[thehog]

Does it?



3) Look, Armstrong can be as big of an a-hole as anyone in this world. He has a big ego, like any successful athlete at the national or international level. He has stepped on people along the way, like anyone who has great success. Like him or dislike him knowing that but don't try to read bad things in anything you can find in order to make him out to be horribly evil. I mean, let's be honest, would you rather have an athlete who doped, had a big ego and could be an a-hole, or those same traits but raped someone or shot someone?

Really? Are we still trotting at this line to excuse the his behaviour?

Send a memo to Roger Federer while you'll at it and tell he'd win more (if thats possible) if he became mean and nasty.

This is utter ********. Alberto Contador will probably become the greatest winning cyclist of all time - he's nothing like Armstrong was in terms of ego. Its simply not true that you have to behave like this to be successful.

..and to trot out the doping is not like raping someone is digesting. Its the same routine of using the cancer shield. So its not rape so its ok then? Please. Its offensive to even bring the two together.

2002 just called and want their Lance dope-defence rhoeotric back.

 

[Benotti69]

A quote from possibly the greatest cyclist of all;

“Good is something you do, not something you talk about. Some medals are pinned to your soul, not to your jacket.”

Gino Bartali
(18 July 1914 - 5 May 2000 )

Maybe those at live$trong might learn lesson and see the woods for the trees and wearing a yella band means all the wrong things.