Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[ChrisE]

All slam dunks. Your opinion of OJ is that he is a murderer. The reason he got off had nothing to do with any legal arguments.


The problem becomes this misperception of what it means to prove something beyond a reasonable doubt.

Part of the problem is that people who end up on juries are often the least qualified to be there.

Now I'd like to see someone solve that problem.

Exactly, OJ got off because of non-legal reasons. You have been ranting about how LA will fall, all the while admitting juries are fickle and irrational at times.

That problem is not solvable.

 

[LarryBudMelman]

Your uncertainty, and mine, and doc's is where the difference is here in the last 20 pages. The difference is we soberly acknowledge it. You go apeshyt when it is suggested that LA may not get the death penalty when this all plays out (sarcasm), and start tossing around the fanboy label when somebody even suggests the worse possible thing imaginable may not happen to him.

And, who in here is an LA "fan" trying to keep some myth alive? You got some neighbors sporting some yellow wristbands drinking Michelob ultra? Nobody in here arguing these last few days has any delusions about what he did.

Hyperbole for the most part.

Also the last sentence is not only your answer and my answer, it's the answer. Very simple.

 

[Hugh Januss]

All slam dunks. Your opinion of OJ is that he is a murderer. The reason he got off had nothing to do with any legal arguments.

Bonds was jacked to the sky and was inextricably linked to Balco and obviously lied and obstructed justice. You believe that too.

The problem becomes this misperception of what it means to prove something beyond a reasonable doubt.

Part of the problem is that people who end up on juries are often the least qualified to be there.

Now I'd like to see someone solve that problem.

Problem is the whole "jury of his peers" thing. Does that mean if Polish was on trial for something (just as an example) anyone with an IQ higher than room temperature should be excused?

 

[ChrisE]

Problem is the whole "jury of his peers" thing. Does that mean if Polish was on trial for something (just as an example) anyone with an IQ higher than room temperature should be excused?

Yes, that is a problem. Who is LA's peer? Nobody living can climb AdH at the end of a stage in 38:01.

 

[LarryBudMelman]

I don't believe that at all. Where do you get this BS from????

Exactly, OJ got off because of non-legal reasons. You have been ranting about how LA will fall, all the while admitting juries are fickle and irrational at times.

That problem is not solvable.

Exactly, OJ got off because of non-legal reasons. You have been ranting about how LA will fall, all the while admitting juries are fickle and irrational at times.

That problem is not solvable.

You don't believe Bonds was jacked and lied?

I think most of the time here I have been saying how inept juries can be. I can't control if people want to believe in flying saucers and that martians did it.

Barring insanity, clear Armstrong is guilty.

Full disclosure edit, I think you retracted the Bonds not being jacked thing???

 

[ChrisE]

You don't believe Bonds was jacked and lied?

I think most of the time here I have been saying how inept juries can be. I can't control if people want to believe in flying saucers and that martians did it.

Barring insanity, clear Armstrong is guilty.

I misread your post, I editted it out but you replied before I was able to.

Yes, Bonds lied. Coconut head was jacked.

But, knowing that doesn't it put things in even more perspective? I am too lazy to dig it up, but only a small percentage of the charges were ever brought to trial. Why is that? Why was that jury given such narrow instructions? Why are you 100% sure LA be different?

 

[Hugh Januss]

This argument is beginning shake down into 2 distinct camps. Those that think LA is guilty but think that there is some chance that he might not be found guilty in court, and those that think if anyone expresses the thought or even fear that LA might get off then they can not possibly think he is guilty.

 

[LarryBudMelman]

I misread your post, I editted it out but you replied before I was able to.

Yes, Bonds lied. Coconut head was jacked.

But, knowing that doesn't it put things in even more perspective? I am too lazy to dig it up, but only a small percentage of the charges were ever brought to trial. Why is that? Why was that jury given such narrow instructions? Why are you 100% sure LA be different?

Well that could be the case with Bonds, I don't know. I do know that so many are enthralled with "smoking gun" evidence and short of that, the entirety of the case is dissected and each piece of evidence discarded and explained away individually.

Dr. Maserati's performance in the face of the obvious only solidifies my position about this kind of illogic.

 

[aphronesis]

This argument is beginning shake down into 2 distinct camps. Those that think LA is guilty but think that there is some chance that he might not be found guilty in court, and those that think if anyone expresses the thought or even fear that LA might get off then they can not possibly think he is guilty.

Taken what? Eight months and four or five thousand posts to reach that bizarre detente?

 

[LarryBudMelman]

This argument is beginning shake down into 2 distinct camps. Those that think LA is guilty but think that there is some chance that he might not be found guilty in court, and those that think if anyone expresses the thought or even fear that LA might get off then they can not possibly think he is guilty.

I myself am incredulous with the 'he's guilty, but they didn't prove it' reasoning which I've heard over and over again.

This only encourages the equal opportunity fans, apologists, and rationalizers.

It's all very funny! Tell me you wouldn't love to find yourself on that jury? You'd be bursting out laughing during testimony!

 

[MacRoadie]

This argument is beginning shake down into 2 distinct camps. Those that think LA is guilty but think that there is some chance that he might not be found guilty in court, and those that think if anyone expresses the thought or even fear that LA might get off then they can not possibly think he is guilty.

There's a third camp: the rest of us, standing around watching a room full of one-legged men trying to kick each other in the nuts...

 

[Velodude]

Yeah, some of us think it will be difficult. OJ had a ton of evidence against him, too, and he walked. Bonds had many more charges against him initially than the ones he was actually tried for, and only was found guilty on one of those counts.

Your "slam dunk" arguments make you look foolish. Time will tell.

The evidence against OJ was circumstantial. No eyewitness evidence.

Evidence against LA is eyewitness, documentary and circumstantial.

There was damning evidence from an eyewitness that placed OJ leaving the vicinity of the murder scene at the right time when he claimed to be elsewhere without corroboration.

Pre trial that witness went on a TV current affairs and was paid $20,000. Behind the scenes the defense allegedly falsely set this person up as a person of high discredit and ensured the DA was informed. The DA pulled her as a material witness.

Then the defense played the race card with a police officer who had a racist background by painting a "what if" scenario that as he collected OJ's blood sample he could have re-visited the murder scene and salted OJ's blood to be collected for forensic evaluation. Doubt was raised.

OJ's alleged criminal act occurred over minutes with no witnesses.

LA's acts over 11 years with a cast of witnesses.

Bonds was a witness not a target.

 

[Publicus]

AP is reporting that prosecutors have closed their investigation into Lance Armstrong. No article, just that breaking news.

EDIT: he wont be prosecuted; not saying why.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Prosecutors close Armstrong inquiry, no charges
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CYC_DOPING_ARMSTRONG?SITE=TNMEM&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

 

[richtea]

why have there been no indictments since this story broke nearly 2 years ago??

Yes - why is it taking so long? Does no one in this country do any work any more?

 

[aphronesis]

There's a third camp: the rest of us, standing around watching a room full of one-legged men trying to kick each other in the nuts...

So you say. I opt for a sardonic and guttural belly laugh about now. And it has nothing to do with LA.

 

[patricknd]

This argument is beginning shake down into 2 distinct camps. Those that think LA is guilty but think that there is some chance that he might not be found guilty in court, and those that think if anyone expresses the thought or even fear that LA might get off then they can not possibly think he is guilty.

best summary of the last 100 pages that i've seen.


holy ****, i just saw the ap story.

 

[MarkvW]

A system that lets people like OJ and Lance walk free is nothing to be proud of.

Ah, come on. The only state in which criminal prosecution is easy is a police state.

 

[Ferminal]

Closing this one for now, posts have been moved to a new thread. Everyone can go at it in there. I will probably merge them back together once the dust has settled, but such news warrants a thread of its own and I'm closing this one so that there isn't a split discussion.

 

[palmerq]

there have been far too many lance armstrong threads recently... so I have merged many of them too hear... please dont start new ones unless it is really needed.. lets keep this one for the general lance stuff and the other one for the usada investigation...

the evidence thread is also still on the go whereever it is

 

[Race Radio]

there have been far too many lance armstrong threads recently... so I have merged many of them too hear... please dont start new ones unless it is really needed.. lets keep this one for the general lance stuff and the other one for the usada investigation...

the evidence thread is also still on the go whereever it is

Thanks. I was looking for a reason not to post here anymore.

This place is hard enough to keep track of putting every topic into one big, incomprehensible thread guarantees it will be unreadable.

 

[the big ring]

A shame we can't have a sub-forum for a rider / team and let the posts fall under that sub-forum.

 

[palmerq]

Thanks. I was looking for a reason not to post here anymore.

This place is hard enough to keep track of putting every topic into one big, incomprehensible thread guarantees it will be unreadable.

sorry you feel that way boyo but there are far too many of them and the important and different ones have remained.

 

[CharacterFirst]

Thanks. I was looking for a reason not to post here anymore.

This place is hard enough to keep track of putting every topic into one big, incomprehensible thread guarantees it will be unreadable.

Could not agree more. We need more threads - one for each LA topic. They just need to be policed a bit tighter to remove irrelevant stuff from each thread.
This place is now a leader in an emerging field, but it must be sharp, crisp, user friendly, and an easy reference.

Here is the chance for this forum to become the #1 site for all things PED in sports. Don't miss the chance.

 

[BroDeal]

Thanks. I was looking for a reason not to post here anymore.

This place is hard enough to keep track of putting every topic into one big, incomprehensible thread guarantees it will be unreadable.

Ever try to find something in one of these mega threads using the forum's crappy search function? Freaking impossible.