Official London Olympics Doping thread

[AcademyCC]

Yes, but Adlington is a freestyle swimmer so it is a slightly unfair comparison. This girl isn't swimming any individual freestyle events (or even relays?) which makes it much more suspect. Based on what you are saying Ye Shiwen should be competeing in the freestyle events.

Lochte is a medley swimmer, and while his freestyle is good it's not world beating, he was nearly 2 seconds down on Agnel.

I'm not saying the others aren't doping, but her result really does seem to good to be true.

Re Addlington I was using that scenario to put Ye's time into Perspective.

The Lochte time is a red herring. Lochte had left the field for dust going into the final length and visibly slackened off.

My initial post was to point out some other strange times that haven't been judged bad so quickly and decisively. If it was a British/American or Aussie swimmer I doubt very much if questions would have been asked at all.

 

[AcademyCC]

Choosing Ian Thorpe as a comparison there is probably the worst thing you could have done. His coach's safe was found with steroids in it...

Well no, that actually makes my point. I wasnt saying he was doped or clean just using it as an example. Due to the fact he was from a 'reputable' country very few questions were asked and he certainly wasn't accused of doping on national TV immediately after winning his first gold.

 

[Cavalier]

That's only due to the fact that Australian media are sheep, and loathe to do much in the way of investigative reporting, particularly in sport, the nation's doyenne. It's extremely rare for any investigative reporting to be done outside the realm of politics.
This is the overwhelming factor in the public's lack of awareness about doping - they associate is solely with organised country programs - DDR and China.

Let's not forget, this is the country who adores an idiotic thief as one of it's greatest sporting saints.

 

[Benotti69]

Re Addlington I was using that scenario to put Ye's time into Perspective.

The Lochte time is a red herring. Lochte had left the field for dust going into the final length and visibly slackened off.

My initial post was to point out some other strange times that haven't been judged bad so quickly and decisively. If it was a British/American or Aussie swimmer I doubt very much if questions would have been asked at all.

Michelle Smith

 

[AcademyCC]

That's only due to the fact that Australian media are sheep, and loathe to do much in the way of investigative reporting, particularly in sport, the nation's doyenne. It's extremely rare for any investigative reporting to be done outside the realm of politics.
This is the overwhelming factor in the public's lack of awareness about doping - they associate is solely with organised country programs - DDR and China.

Let's not forget, this is the country who adores an idiotic thief as one of it's greatest sporting saints.

I lived in Aus for a couple of years so I do understand. Although the UK has done a bit of investigative journalism into doping I am suprised there hasn't been more especially into Football and Athletics. David Walsh is the standout but I'd say 90% of the population has no clue who he is. The tabloids love a scandal but my guess would be a doping scandal in football would upset the gravy train everyone is on. The same mentality exists in Britain - we would never dope, ever, ever, amen. Them Chinese though, Eastern Europeans (unless they have a British coach then their fine) thems dirty dirty.

 

[Cavalier]

Precisely. In the West, it's very rare to find someone willing to bite the hand that feeds them.

 

[Benotti69]

I lived in Aus for a couple of years so I do understand. Although the UK has done a bit of investigative journalism into doping I am suprised there hasn't been more especially into Football and Athletics. David Walsh is the standout but I'd say 90% of the population has no clue who he is. The tabloids love a scandal but my guess would be a doping scandal in football would upset the gravy train everyone is on. The same mentality exists in Britain - we would never dope, ever, ever, amen. Them Chinese though, Eastern Europeans (unless they have a British coach then their fine) thems dirty dirty.

The Brit papers have had doping stories about Dwain Chambers and David Millar both disputing the Brit ruling of not allowing dopers to compete for Britain at the Olympics.

So the never dope approach is not true.

But they will never touch football till it becomes inevitable that they are doping, but Ryan Giggs still playing has not rung any alarms bells so you can be they are not interested in looking.

 

[AcademyCC]

The Brit papers have had doping stories about Dwain Chambers and David Millar both disputing the Brit ruling of not allowing dopers to compete for Britain at the Olympics.

So the never dope approach is not true.

But they will never touch football till it becomes inevitable that they are doping, but Ryan Giggs still playing has not rung any alarms bells so you can be they are not interested in looking.

Yes your right they did run stories on Chambers and Millar but only after the facts were on the table ie; a positive and an admission. What my point was, and you touched on it with Giggs, investigating performances of British athletes that are suspicious is def not high on journalists to do list.

My 'never dope' mentality was aimed at large portions of the British public who don't understand doping and prefer to put their head in the sand.

I can only go by people I play sports with (very few follow cycling, mostly ball sports and athletics) but many still cant comprehend that professional sport may have some serious PED issues. Unless your looking for it, doping just doesnt get the coverage in the UK that it does on the continent.

 

[Cavalier]

The Giggs example is a perfect one for the media as well - they're far more interested in which in-law he's banging than anything else. Unfortunately it also holds true for the public they 'inform'.

 

[Benotti69]

Yes your right they did run stories on Chambers and Millar but only after the facts were on the table ie; a positive and an admission. What my point was, and you touched on it with Giggs, investigating performances of British athletes that are suspicious is def not high on journalists to do list.

My 'never dope' mentality was aimed at large portions of the British public who don't understand doping and prefer to put their head in the sand.

I can only go by people I play sports with (very few follow cycling, mostly ball sports and athletics) but many still cant comprehend that professional sport may have some serious PED issues. Unless your looking for it, doping just doesnt get the coverage in the UK that it does on the continent.

Doping it the Uk doesn't get looked for due to the stupid litigation laws in the UK. Nearly everyone tries to sue in the UK due to the very favourable laws.

So no one is going to point at the miracle of Giggs playing at his age at the highest level and suggest doping. It will cost them big time and they will be ostracisd by the sport. So a double negative on the footballing front.

Remember when Rio Ferdinand legged it when testers turned up to training and his excuse was he forgot! No sniff of a mention of doping at Man U.

 

[Benotti69]

I see Steve Redgrave has commented on Brit gold in the doubles in rowing;

"They did it in a style that not even I expected," he tells the BBC, as the ladies lap up the acclaim from the stands. "That was unbelievable."

Doping in rowing by Brits, surely not!

From the Guardian;

"relatively new to the sports of which they are now queens, this was their first Olympics; it is also the first time any British women have won a medal in Olympic rowing; and, of course, they won won Great Britain's first gold of London 2012. "

 

[Caruut]

On the Ye Shiwen thing, I actually expect people in the Clinic to make accusations and talk about her doping as it's kind of natural when you're seeing records being broken so often, and people in the Clinic have a long history of being sceptical of many different athletes. What leaves a sour taste in the mouth is when a media that has spent a month brown-nosing Bradley Wiggins and never calls out Anglo athletes decided it's okay to plaster the news with these insinuations.

That Ruta girl - who is in the exact same boat as Ye - even had her performance declared clean by the same presenters that were questioning Ye, just because she trains in the UK. I want the mainstream media to take a look at doping and report honestly, but I want it to be even and not this jingoistic drivel. Their questions are valid; raising them about a Chinese athlete and not others is not okay.

 

[Mellow Velo]

I see Steve Redgrave has commented on Brit gold in the doubles in rowing;



Doping in rowing by Brits, surely not!

From the Guardian;

"relatively new to the sports of which they are now queens, this was their first Olympics; it is also the first time any British women have won a medal in Olympic rowing; and, of course, they won won Great Britain's first gold of London 2012. "

They didn't appear overnight, they came out of the fours.
They are unbeaten in 2012.
You really do seem to have a bug up your ass about all things British.
Get a grip.
One gold medal after five days is pretty underwhelming.

 

[taiwan]

+1 Ye Shiwen bettered her PB by 4 seconds which was set 2 years ago, Ian Thorpe bettered his PB at a similar age by 5 seconds - no questions were raised there. A similarly brilliant from Ruta Meilutyle in the 100m breaststroke, she broke European records in heats, semi final then won the gold as a 15 year old - no questions raised there as she live in plymouth, England and her coach is English. The same BBC commentator Claire Balding who had raised doubts over Ye Shiwen immediately after her swim declared Ruta's performance as her fav non british of the games so far!

On Ye's final 50m - she was seventeen hundreds of a second faster than Lochte over the last 50m, she was 23.25 seconds slower over the 400m. Rebecca Adlinlington swam a final 50m albeit a freestyle event 2 hundreds faster than this only last year! Not only that she did it at the end of an 800m event and not a 400m event like Ye Shiwen!!! No controversy there - shes a brit.

Im a Brit who is enjoying the Olympics but some of the media coverage is so ridiculously biased. Im not saying Rebecca, Ruta or Ye are doped or not doped they are all fantastic athletes everyone just needs a slightly more balanced view before wading in with what the TV or papers are telling them.

Summed up nicely.

 

[King Boonen]

Re Addlington I was using that scenario to put Ye's time into Perspective.

The Lochte time is a red herring. Lochte had left the field for dust going into the final length and visibly slackened off.

My initial post was to point out some other strange times that haven't been judged bad so quickly and decisively. If it was a British/American or Aussie swimmer I doubt very much if questions would have been asked at all.

She beat three other guys who hadn't slackened off though. The fact remains that she shouldn't be able to do that, or if she could she'd be in the individual freestyle events.

I'd like to think that anyone swimming those times would be questioned, but I have to agree with you that they probably wouldn't.

Still, just because they wouldn't be questioned doesn't mean Ye Shiwen shouldn't be.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Choosing Ian Thorpe as a comparison there is probably the worst thing you could have done. His coach's safe was found with steroids in it...

Accusations of steroid use continued later in the year, this time from German captain Chris-Carol Bremer, who stated that "hands and feet are unusually big" due to the use of human growth hormone.[6] Thorpe denied the claims and called for the introduction of blood testing, promising to have a sample frozen to prove his innocence upon the discovery of such a test. Although a test for EPO was developed in time for the games, no successful test for hGh was found.[1][7]
[edit] 2007 L'Equipe allegations

On 30 March 2007, L'Équipe, a major French daily sports newspaper, reported on its website that Thorpe showed "abnormal levels" of two banned substances in a doping test on May 2006.[8][9]
The Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority (ASADA) later confirmed that Thorpe was investigated for abnormal levels of testosterone and luteinizing hormone (LH); both naturally occurring in the body. Thorpe's elevated LH level was what caused ASADA to initially investigate (and dismiss) the test result.[10] Thorpe denied the rumours in a press conference on 31 March 2007 stating "I firmly believe I am clean, I have never cheated and have always fulfilled my obligations."[11]
On 2 April 2007, the World Anti-Doping Agency (or WADA) issued a statement[12] condemning the breach-of-privacy L'Equipe's announcement constituted.

 

[akrogirl]

I'm a Brit and the manner of that victory (double sculls) certainly raised a few flags for me. It just looked way too easy, and the rowers a little too fresh afterwards.

Oh for the good old days, lol. Yes, I am old enough to have known several team members who raced clean, and actually worked with one guy who did much of his training by running to and from work.

 

[Benotti69]

They didn't appear overnight, they came out of the fours.

I quoted the Guardian.

They are unbeaten in 2012.

So WTF was Redgrave on about. "That was unbelievable"?

You really do seem to have a bug up your ass about all things British.
Get a grip.

Did i ruffle your patriotism. The London Olympics has pretty much been billed by the British as a matter of how many more medals than Beijing would they win. Taking it for granted in truly British style. To see them taken down a peg or 2 does warms ones cockles

I do enjoy seeing other nations fail too. The bigger the better, add some national arrogance on top can be truly enjoyable. USA are tops for this.

One gold medal after five days is pretty underwhelming.

As i suspected it would be. Just like mens RR where they thought the Gold was theirs as a given.

 

[King Boonen]

Thorpe denied the rumours in a press conference on 31 March 2007 stating "I firmly believe I am clean

That's a very strange way of putting it...

 

[taiwan]

...I'd like to think that anyone swimming those times would be questioned, but I have to agree with you that they probably wouldn't.

Still, just because they wouldn't be questioned doesn't mean Ye Shiwen shouldn't be.

We're not talking about questioning in the sense of seeking evidence of doping though, we're talking about speculation from public figures in the media. Like riders calling other riders out, it's better not to do it to anyone if you're operating a double standard.

 

[AcademyCC]

She beat three other guys who hadn't slackened off though. The fact emains that she shouldn't be able to do that, or if she could she'd be in the individual freestyle events.

I'd like to think that anyone swimming those times would be questioned, but I have to agree with you that they probably wouldn't.

Still, just because they wouldn't be questioned doesn't mean Ye Shiwen shouldn't be.

I agree. Question everyone in time when all facts have been gathered and looked at in a balanced way. Not straight after her swim to millions of people based on an emotional thought. Ye Shiwen, even if found to be clean,will be labelled a doper now in the minds of millions because Clare Balding is a ***. Shes a ex-jockey, why on gods green earth is she commentating on swimming

 

[King Boonen]

I agree. Question everyone in time when all facts have been gathered and looked at in a balanced way. Not straight after her swim to millions of people based on an emotional thought. Ye Shiwen, even if found to be clean,will be labelled a doper now in the minds of millions because Clare Balding is a ***. Shes a ex-jockey, why on gods green earth is she commentating on swimming

She does rugby league as well and is even more annoying. Her, Gary Lineker and Jake Humphreys should not be presenting the Olympics. Blame the Tories and there BBC funding rampage for not enough expert analysis.

The time is very hard for me to believe. A woman beating her male peers over the same distance when all are racing flat-out is unheard of. Taking the Adlington example, I wonder what the men swam in the equivalent race.

The problem for me isn't the win, or the record, just the fact that she can swim like that in the final leg of the medley, but doesn't do the individual events. As you said, she's almost as fast as Adlington and only 16.

 

[King Boonen]

We're not talking about questioning in the sense of seeking evidence of doping though, we're talking about speculation from public figures in the media. Like riders calling other riders out, it's better not to do it to anyone if you're operating a double standard.

I agree, but to not question it is hard with splits like that, it instantly invites the question and if they don't discuss it everyone else will. It would be like a relative unknown coming out in the womens heptathlon, doing poorly in the throwing events and them beating everyone by a massive margin in the running events and beating several of the men in the equivalent Decathlon events as well.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Unaware of doping

Ye and Ruta Meilutyte looked genuinely stunned (ok could have been embarassment) - but how about they didnt know they were doping and found when they kicked on that they had that power in reserves ???

i.e. the Coaches are doping them.

These youngsters wouldnt be capable of doing what the cyclists do with their coaches / doctors.

 

[King Boonen]

Ye and Ruta Meilutyte looked genuinely stunned (ok could have been embarassment) - but how about they didnt know they were doping and found when they kicked on that they had that power in reserves ???

i.e. the Coaches are doping them.

These youngsters wouldnt be capable of doing what the cyclists do with their coaches / doctors.

Perfectly possible. Young athletes will do pretty much whatever their coach says, they trust that they know best. They could easily give them a "protein shake" spiked with something and they'd be none the wiser.