Official London Olympics Doping thread

[Franklin]

Sorry, but this is rubbish. Mainly it's socio economic reasons in western countries. It's expensive to swim and poorly renumerated when compared to other sports.

TBH, the link you post fully supports my theory. It's partly cultural:

"I always hear so many stories from different people, even in my own family, where they've had such bad experiences with being in the water and swimming that I can really relate. I can sit back and go: 'This is what happened to me. I completely get it. But that's never a reason for you not to learn how to swim.' You see a lot of that, especially in the African-American community."

Frther; the wealth divide isn't as big here in the Netherlands (Western Europe!) as in the USA. Swimming is a relatively affordable sport over here, in fact most families here can afford sports for their kids. And yet it's always soccer. So in the case of my country it's definitely a cultural issue.

My singular viewpoint eschews my position. I agree, money certainly plays a huge role if we look on the world (and thus Olympic scale).

And when I meant that an African government needed to set up a program that includes the complete financing of the program, not just throwing down a swimming pool or two I certainly don't forget the economic factors outside the Western world (though i also certainly didn't express them very well/at al).

So yes, by this omision my post is rightfully bunk. Thanks for the correction!

To sum my theory:

In western Europe a lot of choices are made culturally.
I have a hunch this is also true in the USA, but that's just a hunch (the big three sports take the cake). I certainly can belive money is a larger issue in the USA do to the wealth divide between races.
In the poor parts of the world (for a better description) it's a monetary issue foremost, aggravated by the lack of facilities. Without these two culture doesn't even enter the equation.

 

[Caruut]

Funny how the media didn't start all this doping talk when a certain Michael Phelps started setting WRs aged 16. This is probably doping, but the way the mainstream media and US swimming coaches have piled on seems wholly racist to me.

 

[BroDeal]

Funny how the media didn't start all this doping talk when a certain Michael Phelps started setting WRs aged 16. This is probably doping, but the way the mainstream media and US swimming coaches have piled on seems wholly racist to me.

1) Communist countries have a history of state sponsored doping.

2) China had a huge swim doping scandal that ensared dozens of swimmers.

3) Sixteen year old girl outswims one of the world's best male swimmers.

4) All set against a background of cheating with athlete's ages during the Beijing Olympics.

 

[Franklin]

Funny how the media didn't start all this doping talk when a certain Michael Phelps started setting WRs aged 16. This is probably doping, but the way the mainstream media and US swimming coaches have piled on seems wholly racist to me.

How dare you suggest this of our media?

Now tbh, I think it's a bit more objective from the coaches/experts, but for sure, the countries protesting surely don't look in the mirror every morning.

 

[D-Queued]

1) Communist countries have a history of state sponsored doping.

...

And Democratic countries don't dope and would never run an organized doping program, especially not anything that was state sponsored or condoned.

Democratic countries also never pay off IOC officials to win Olympic bids.

... and other fairy tales.

Dave.

 

[Franklin]

1) Communist countries have a history of state sponsored doping.

2) China had a huge swim doping scandal that ensared dozens of swimmers.

3) Sixteen year old girl outswims one of the world's best male swimmers.

4) All set against a background of cheating with athlete's ages during the Beijing Olympics.

I completely agree with this.

And yet Caruut is bang on the money about the hooplah given to it by the media.

Michelle S. who now is used as such an obvious example was celebrated at the time. Had Ye been American/British the newspapers in the west would be a lot more positive, certainly in the first few days.

 

[Franklin]

And Democratic countries don't dope and would never run an organized doping program, especially not anything that was state sponsored or condoned.

Democratic countries also never pay off IOC officials to win Olympic bids.

... and other fairy tales.

Dave.

I am tempted to think about the USA in the Olympics in the eighties (cycling, athlectics). The whitewashing of dope controls perhaps wasn't government ordered (who knows!), it certainly resulted in almost the same thing.

 

[D-Queued]

I am tempted to think about the USA in the Olympics in the eighties (cycling, athlectics). The whitewashing of dope controls perhaps wasn't government ordered (who knows!), it certainly resulted in almost the same thing.

Or, how about when the King tells you to forget about the ban and let him race?

Dave.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

The whole idea of Nation-based medal counts run contrary to the ideal of the Olympics.

Mind you, so does doping. And corporate ownership. And the inherent jingoism of the modern games.

I don't want to p*ss on anyone's parade, but the entire Olympic scene pretty much makes me want to puke.

 

[Cloxxki]

Any insights on genetic manipulation? China have been rumored to be at it for a while, and this young lady is, well, young. In het mind she might be 100% clean. Never taken a prohibited PED, never transfused, etc. Just born as half-human, half-dolphin.
If I were an evil sports minister overlord, I'd go for the IVF couples. Manipulate the heck out of the genes, and then very suptly scout the youngster as (s)he grows up. Not so hard with state schools.
One could give IVF couples simply a faetus deriving from Olympic medalist, XY and XX. Plus some tricks. They'll love it as their own anyway.

 

[Caruut]

1) Communist countries have a history of state sponsored doping.

2) China had a huge swim doping scandal that ensared dozens of swimmers.

3) Sixteen year old girl outswims one of the world's best male swimmers.

4) All set against a background of cheating with athlete's ages during the Beijing Olympics.

I am not saying it is not suspicious. I am saying it is regrettable that we pounce on those we perceive as foreign while looking the other way when suspicious performances come from within. Like I said, Phelps was setting WRs at 16 too - if anything that's more extreme than a girl doing it, since women are generally more developed (relatively) at 16 than men.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

USA or China. Doesn´t matter. They just have different reasons for their all out doping. Country A is b/c of the money. Country B is b/c to show the world "we are the best, we have the superior system".

Phelps looks like a neandertaler. He´s as clean or as dirty (depends how people look at it) as this chinese girl/boy...

The whole idea of Nation-based medal counts run contrary to the ideal of the Olympics.

Mind you, so does doping. And corporate ownership. And the inherent jingoism of the modern games.

I don't want to p*ss on anyone's parade, but the entire Olympic scene pretty much makes me want to puke.

I am on your side.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Any insights on genetic manipulation? China have been rumored to be at it for a while, and this young lady is, well, young. In het mind she might be 100% clean. Never taken a prohibited PED, never transfused, etc. Just born as half-human, half-dolphin.
If I were an evil sports minister overlord, I'd go for the IVF couples. Manipulate the heck out of the genes, and then very suptly scout the youngster as (s)he grows up. Not so hard with state schools.
One could give IVF couples simply a faetus deriving from Olympic medalist, XY and XX. Plus some tricks. They'll love it as their own anyway.

You don't even need genetic manipulation, just good breeding.

I remember an American commentator getting pilloried for saying that about black American athletes. His contention was that they are a distinct sample that had to survive the harshest conditions, and then got selectively bred by their American slave-masters. That, of course, will end up with a pool of tough humans.

What about multi-generational athletes? Same thing. Certainly not surprising that Taylor Phinney is able to rock out on a bike, based on the genetic heritage he's got. And that's only one example of many.

 

[zigmeister]

You don't even need genetic manipulation, just good breeding.

I remember an American commentator getting pilloried for saying that about black American athletes. His contention was that they are a distinct sample that had to survive the harshest conditions, and then got selectively bred by their American slave-masters. That, of course, will end up with a pool of tough humans.

What about multi-generational athletes? Same thing. Certainly not surprising that Taylor Phinney is able to rock out on a bike, based on the genetic heritage he's got. And that's only one example of many.

Jimmy "The Greek"

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Jimmy "The Greek"

That's the guy! Didn't he pretty much get disgraced out of broadcasting for saying that?

I remember hearing the reports of that in Europe, and couldn't understand why he got pounded so hard. He wasn't being overtly racist, he was just explicating the history of black Americans.

Ohhhh... That's right, America is all good with a pristine history. Sorry, forgot about that...

 

[knewcleardaze]

The whole idea of Nation-based medal counts run contrary to the ideal of the Olympics.

Mind you, so does doping. And corporate ownership. And the inherent jingoism of the modern games.

I don't want to p*ss on anyone's parade, but the entire Olympic scene pretty much makes me want to puke.

+ 1


Is this ten characters?

 

[Viking]

The whole idea of Nation-based medal counts run contrary to the ideal of the Olympics.

Mind you, so does doping. And corporate ownership. And the inherent jingoism of the modern games.

I don't want to p*ss on anyone's parade, but the entire Olympic scene pretty much makes me want to puke.

I'm with you there.

It has always (in my memory anyway) been a twisted p!ss!ng match between nations. It's also been a horrible display of national conspicuous consumption as the host cities try to constantly outdo each other with their crazed ceremonies and lavish construction. Though I recently read that the 1984 LA games were a bit different, and the city made the IOC use existing buildings, or foot the bill for new ones.

Anyway, the closing ceremony in London had damned well better finish with Yakety Sax!

 

[ggusta]

Victor Conte has say on Ye Shiwen and says he would be easy to use EPO and still get away with it.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/o...immer-ye-shiwen-doping-kick-article-1.1126198

That's ridiculous, are you trying to say that someone can never test positive, say, 500 times and actually have been a doper all along????

That's freaking preposterous.

 

[oldcrank]

I wonder what Dr. Eric Heiden would say about Ye,
or his own clean sweep of all five Olympic speed-
skating events in 1980...all in Olympic record time.

 

[sittingbison]

I wonder what Dr. Eric Heiden would say about Ye,
or his own clean sweep of all five Olympic speed-
skating events in 1980...all in Olympic record time.

I had buckets for hands as well?

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Always impressed with the number of people who don't know what jinogism is.

 

[AcademyCC]

I am not saying it is not suspicious. I am saying it is regrettable that we pounce on those we perceive as foreign while looking the other way when suspicious performances come from within. Like I said, Phelps was setting WRs at 16 too - if anything that's more extreme than a girl doing it, since women are generally more developed (relatively) at 16 than men.

+1 Ye Shiwen bettered her PB by 4 seconds which was set 2 years ago, Ian Thorpe bettered his PB at a similar age by 5 seconds - no questions were raised there. A similarly brilliant from Ruta Meilutyle in the 100m breaststroke, she broke European records in heats, semi final then won the gold as a 15 year old - no questions raised there as she live in plymouth, England and her coach is English. The same BBC commentator Claire Balding who had raised doubts over Ye Shiwen immediately after her swim declared Ruta's performance as her fav non british of the games so far!

On Ye's final 50m - she was seventeen hundreds of a second faster than Lochte over the last 50m, she was 23.25 seconds slower over the 400m. Rebecca Adlinlington swam a final 50m albeit a freestyle event 2 hundreds faster than this only last year! Not only that she did it at the end of an 800m event and not a 400m event like Ye Shiwen!!! No controversy there - shes a brit.

Im a Brit who is enjoying the Olympics but some of the media coverage is so ridiculously biased. Im not saying Rebecca, Ruta or Ye are doped or not doped they are all fantastic athletes everyone just needs a slightly more balanced view before wading in with what the TV or papers are telling them.

 

[King Boonen]

+1 Ye Shiwen bettered her PB by 4 seconds which was set 2 years ago, Ian Thorpe bettered his PB at a similar age by 5 seconds - no questions were raised there. A similarly brilliant from Ruta Meilutyle in the 100m breaststroke, she broke European records in heats, semi final then won the gold as a 15 year old - no questions raised there as she live in plymouth, England and her coach is English. The same BBC commentator Claire Balding who had raised doubts over Ye Shiwen immediately after her swim declared Ruta's performance as her fav non british of the games so far!

On Ye's final 50m - she was seventeen hundreds of a second faster than Lochte over the last 50m, she was 23.25 seconds slower over the 400m. Rebecca Adlinlington swam a final 50m albeit a freestyle event 2 hundreds faster than this only last year! Not only that she did it at the end of an 800m event and not a 400m event like Ye Shiwen!!! No controversy there - shes a brit.

Im a Brit who is enjoying the Olympics but some of the media coverage is so ridiculously biased. Im not saying Rebecca, Ruta or Ye are doped or not doped they are all fantastic athletes everyone just needs a slightly more balanced view before wading in with what the TV or papers are telling them.

Yes, but Adlington is a freestyle swimmer so it is a slightly unfair comparison. This girl isn't swimming any individual freestyle events (or even relays?) which makes it much more suspect. Based on what you are saying Ye Shiwen should be competeing in the freestyle events.

Lochte is a medley swimmer, and while his freestyle is good it's not world beating, he was nearly 2 seconds down on Agnel.

I'm not saying the others aren't doping, but her result really does seem to good to be true.

 

[Benotti69]

the whole idea of nation-based medal counts run contrary to the ideal of the olympics.

Mind you, so does doping. And corporate ownership. And the inherent jingoism of the modern games.

I don't want to p*ss on anyone's parade, but the entire olympic scene pretty much makes me want to puke.

+100000000000000000000

 

[Cavalier]

Choosing Ian Thorpe as a comparison there is probably the worst thing you could have done. His coach's safe was found with steroids in it...