Official thread: Giro d'Italia

[craig1985]

That is nothing. I'm not sure I ever understood the intergiro competition...or maybe I just thought it was stupid.

I think the best description is 'clear as mud'.

 

[Escarabajo]

Do people consider this helpful 'public service announcement' or is it just a kind of spam? I find it a little irritating but what do others think?

Irritating, but is there something that you can do about it?

 

[Anonymous]

That was an exciting day. The Lavaredo is so stunning. I remember watching The Greatest Show on Earth and JM Fuente riding up it, wow. In 2007 for the last 10k it looked like DiLuca was constantly on the verge of cracking as everyone crawled to the finish.

But still, any stages in recent history with 5000m of climbing? Anyone know?

i found something on a garmin-slipstream site

http://www.slipstreamsports.com/200...-embrunlalpe-dhuez-with-christian-vande-velde

i was on here a couple of weeks ago and though it's seen something about what they call "total elevation gain".
as you see, the figure on this stage is 17,411 feet.

that measures every time the road goes up, not just major climbs but i think that is also the definition being used in the figures from the other day wasn't it?

i'm going to look at other data on this site but i think i'll find that it's not all that uncommon.
astounding.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Lance and Levi say nothing ever so hard in their careers and Mick Rogers agrees. Perhaps Plateua de Beille 2004 LA sez..

I think the fact they had two previous tough days in the mountains, and because Basso attacked the day before they got no rest. Plus because there weren't a lot of mountains before that to split them up, we had a lot of riders clustered near the top trying to gain time on the queen stage. Plus the length, heat, etc. Definitely one of the most brutal I've ever seen in the Giro because of all that.

I believe it was in the 1995 Giro where after 7 and a half hours of mountains Tony Rominger rolled in and everyone was fried after about 5,000m of climbing, but I'll have to double check. One of the Pantani years also had a very long stage of close to eight hours of mountains.

Yes, but who was up the road?
Rasmussen. Who was chasing behind? Everyone we now know was blood doping.

The ubiquitous doping issue aside, I was mostly just stating that I think at this point (three days ago) Levi's only hope to win the Giro is go out on an Hinault/Landis/Ciapucci type attack some 100km from the finish, as he doesn't have the speed or jump to drop them. He's going to have to attack when they won't chase, then leave everything on the road and hope he can stay out. But it looks like he left everything on the road already, and Petrano was the coup de gras.

i found something on a garmin-slipstream site ... that measures every time the road goes up, not just major climbs but i think that is also the definition being used in the figures from the other day wasn't it?

I'm going to look at other data on this site but i think i'll find that it's not all that uncommon. Astounding.

That's what I'm thinking. I just can't quite find the calculations, though I'm sure there have been stages with even more climbing, and it happens on a lot of major GT's.

 

[issoisso]

Yes, but who was up the road?
Rasmussen.

Who was chasing behind?
Everyone we now know was blood doping.
Just saying. He could never have close down the gap to Rasmussen given all we now know and the chasers behind? Hello???

That's not the point anyone was making.

If you re-read the post you're quoting you'll notice the post had nothing to do with him winning or being caught it was about "when has Levi ever attacked from far out?", to paraphrase

And that stage is the only one where he did it. The two times they raced that stage, he attacked on the same place, far from the finish. As far as I'm aware, that's the only stage he's done it in, in his whole life.

 

[Anonymous]

That's not the point anyone was making.

If you re-read the post you're quoting you'll notice the post had nothing to do with him winning or being caught it was about "when has Levi ever attacked from far out?", to paraphrase

And that stage is the only one where he did it. The two times they raced that stage, he attacked on the same place, far from the finish. As far as I'm aware, that's the only stage he's done it in, in his whole life.

sounds like you folks are criticizing him for not being stupid.
when does that tactic ever win you more than a stage in grand tour?

 

[issoisso]

You're the one reading more into my post than what is there

I didn't criticize him. I posted that the last time he attacked far before the finish line was on occasion X, where Y happened. That's it. Nothing else. No judgements. Just a fact as clear as "this wall next to me is white".
But the fact that you're trying hard to read several different criticisms of Leipheimer from such a simple and innocent post does say a lot

 

[Anonymous]

You're the one reading more into my post than what is there

I didn't criticize him. I posted that the last time he attacked far before the finish line was on occasion X, where Y happened. That's it. Nothing else. No judgements. Just a fact as clear as "this wall next to me is white".
But the fact that you're trying hard to read several different criticisms of Leipheimer from such a simple and innocent post does say a lot

sorry about that.
looking back you are correct.
you were responding to a post and when i go back to the origional post i find Alpe d'Huez's saying that such a "suicide move" was his last real chance. not that he thought he should actually try it.
it's true, i've been sensitive about the issue since di luca's comment.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Keep in mind, I'm saying the "suicide" approach is his only way left to actually win the Giro. This means 1st place, overall on GC. There is no other way he could do it, he's simply not going to ride the others off his wheel with speed, or use a powerful acceleration like Di Luca to break them.

If he's not concerned about 1st place, he could definitely hold his position on GC, he should be able to ride the way he has been.

sounds like you folks are criticizing him for not being stupid.
When does that tactic ever win you more than a stage in grand tour?

Landis 2006? I mean, Periero 2006? Hinault almost pulled it off in 1986. Many riders in the past like Hinault or Merckx used to attack like this, often with success, but yes, in the past. Now everyone waits until the last climb to attack or even the last few km.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Disappointed to see that this thread, the only current Giro thread running, has become polarised around the exploits, or rather lack of, of one man.

Hasn't anyone got any thoughts about today's final MTF?

The last 9kms look wicked and could make or break the podium hopefuls.
I'd like to think that Di Luca could finally break Menchov's elastic, to set up a Rome Grand finale, but suspect it will come down to the old Liquigas 1-2.

 

[craig1985]

Hardly a metre of flat on there. Would love to see Armstrong attack on the last climb. He is clearly coming into form and it would be good to see him shake things up with an attack.

 

[Jasper]

I think Pellizotti and Basso will try the same thing as 2 days ago, not necessarily in the same order though. Menchov wil easily follow, and I don't see Di Luca cracking actually. He'll definitely try to attack the russian, and the steep gradients are in his favor I think. Sastre is the big variable here. Will he have the same form as on Monte Petrano, or will he lose more time and struggle like on Blockhaus?


I really wonder how Garzelli's going to do today. He's getting more suspicious with every metre uphill...

 

[Zoncolan]

I expect Basso to give it a huge dig today.
Sure hope Sastre and Di Luca have the legs to attack.
Should be a fun stage to watch.

 

[lookkg386]

last chance for Di Luca and Sastre, can't be a question of if but when they attack on the final climb.

 

[Anonymous]

The last 9kms look wicked and could make or break the podium hopefuls.
I'd like to think that Di Luca could finally break Menchov's elastic, to set up a Rome Grand finale, but suspect it will come down to the old Liquigas 1-2.

how do i find those cool maps?

 

[Mellow Velo]

how do i find those cool maps?

All the maps and stuff you could ever need. Just click on "Altimetria", or "Dettagli Salite" on the right for each of "Le Tappa".



http://www.gazzetta.it/ssi/2008/boxes/giro2009/sito/tappe_it_09.shtml

 

[BroDeal]

Di Luca needs to start watching 1989 TdF time trial videos.

 

[kjetilraknerud]

Just as a mental note before the final TT. In last years Giro, Menchov was two minutes faster than Di Luca in the final TT - which was about twice as long as the stage on Sunday. So to me, if no accidents occur, this race is over. Di Luca would have to get at least one minute on Menchov tomorrow - plus the bonus seconds. That won't happen.

 

[Escarabajo]

Just as a mental note before the final TT. In last years Giro, Menchov was two minutes faster than Di Luca in the final TT - which was about twice as long as the stage on Sunday. So to me, if no accidents occur, this race is over. Di Luca would have to get at least one minute on Menchov tomorrow - plus the bonus seconds. That won't happen.

Two different scenarios to me. Riders ride different when they have different motivations. The pink jersey motivation for Di Luca in the TT is huge.

Having said that. I still think Menchov have the edge.
Thanks.

 

[kjetilraknerud]

I agree with you, but I believe Menchov's pink jersey motivation will be quite huge as well

 

[Belokki]

Is it me or does Lance really seem stronger than Levi?

It's a shame! It would have been fun watching Levi, Di Luca, Menchow battling it out... A great time trialler aggainst a great climber and the most balanced all-rounder in the peloton...much like Ullrich, Beloki and Lance did in the 03 Tour

Still a great Giro though...GO Menchow!!

 

[Wattie]

Is anyone able to calculate what the positions would be without the time bonuses? I'm not certain what bonuses are given on which stages. It would be a shame if the winner was actually slower on time than the runner up. It has happened before in the Giro: Saronni beat Visentini in 1983 because he accumulated time bonuses.

Personally I don't think there should be time bonuses on stages other than the srinters' stages. Some flat stages might need bonuses to help liven them up, but mountain stages don't need artifical elemetns thrown in to pep them up a bit. It doesn't seem fair to me that despite being unable to drop Menchov, Di Luca took eight seconds out of him today. Stage races should be about time, not crossing the line first. One day races are all about crossing the line first.

Still (fingers crossed) Menchov will win the race anyway.

 

[kjetilraknerud]

Di Luca:
20 seconds on stage 4
12 seconds on stage 5
8 seconds on sage 8
20 seconds on stage 10
8 seconds on stage 16
8 seconds on stage 17
8 seconds on stage 19
Total: 1.26

Menchov:
20 seconds on stage 5
8 seconds on stage 10
12 seconds on stage 16
Total: 0.40

Pellizotti:
8 seconds on stage 4
12 seconds on stage 10
20 seconds on stage 17
12 seconds on stage 19
Total: 0.52

So basically, the top three would be the same - with Menchov a much clearer leader.

Edit: if my 20-12-8 assumption is right for all stages.

 

[mherm79]

Is it me or does Lance really seem stronger than Levi?

it sure seems that way. his paced Levi up a few climbs and that after dropping back to the team car for water bottle duties...which i found surprising but at the same time a show of strength to his rivals.

 

[aforkosh]

Stage 20 possibility

How is this for picture book ending for the end of stage 20? LPR sets up a sprint train with Petacchi as the lead-out man for DiLuca. Assuming Menchov is shut out of the placings, DiLuca goes into the Time Trial with a 2-second lead.

Would he keep it? Probably not, but it would certainly make Sunday a bit more interesting.