Official thread: Giro d'Italia

[BroDeal]

Only the American media to the American fans has seriously considered Levi a threat in the Giro. Fact of the matter is that he's a very talented racer, he's just not a GT kind of guy, every time he's the sole captain of a team for a GT, the pressure crushes him. His best performances have always been when he's supposed to be supporting someone else.

The odds from bookmakers like Unibet had Leiphiemer as a leading contender. He and Basso were the favorites for the people who were risking money on the result.

 

[TheMight]

Deutschland Tour twice.

2005 and when? It is a worthy race. Seems like he could rack up 5-10 day races like that, Tour de Suisse, Romandie, maybe a Paris-Nice, a Trento.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Levi and Astana pretty much blew their one chance on Petrano with a strategy of trying to have others tire themselves out chasing Popo, then Lance set a fast pace with Levi to follow and ride everyone off their wheel. But it completely failed as Lance wasn't fast enough, and Levi was dropped. All this after saying the stage was perfect for them, and he'd be just has happy to finish 10th than 2nd, they employed a very predictable, low-risk strategy. As I said before the only way Levi was going to win the Giro ever since Stage 12 is if he tries a suicide attack from over 50k out (Landis, Hinault, Fuente, etc.). He's not fast enough to drop anyone otherwise. He simply must attack when they will not immediately chase. There is no other way. It's been this way for nearly a week, and they failed to try on three possible stages so far, 14, 15 and 16, leaving them further painted into a corner with time running out. Maybe even on his career.

I can't see Levi, or Lance attacking and getting away on the Blockhaus. The stage is going to be like an uphill TT with guys in small groups and frequent attacks that gain seconds. If anything, he's going to lose another minute, same with Lance. Stage 18 to Benevento is too flat. If Levi were ever going to give it a go, he's going to have to attack on Stage 19's Pico San Angelo, 60k away from the Vesuvius. Or maybe even at the Valico Costapiana, over 100km from the finish, and hope he can get in with someone and get far enough out over the jagged terrain. But I simply don't see him doing that. It's not in his, or Astana's style, and he's never really rode like that in his entire career, not once as far as I can remember. I'm sure they'll just play it safe, and once again hope against all hope that the others somehow wilt in the last 5k, which is highly, highly unlikely to happen, making him destined to finish about where he is in Rome - a nondescript 6th place.

 

[Escarabajo]

I think you guys are giving too much thinking into Levi at this point. The race is taking place with someone else. Sorry!. He'll be happy to finish in the top 10. I am not even sure if Lance will go over him in the GC standings.

 

[issoisso]

But I simply don't see him doing that. It's not in his, or Astana's style, and he's never really rode like that in his entire career, not once as far as I can remember. I'm sure they'll just play it safe, and once again hope against all hope that the others somehow wilt in the last 5k, which is highly, highly unlikely to happen, making him destined to finish about where he is in Rome - a nondescript 6th place.

2006 Tour, queen stage to La Toussuire. Went for it on the Croix-de-fer, gained a 6 minute advantage, was caught on the final climb.

Very much doubt he'll try it again.

 

[lookkg386]

My opinion is that stage 17 won't decide this Giro anyway, Menchov and Di Luca (only two who I think can win) will be close enough that Di Luca will have to have another go at grabbing time before TT.

Sastre is too far behind and as for Levi...gone- Lance is starting to look stronger.

Basso and Pellizotti don't seem to be at the top two's level either(Basso's time will be 2010 maybe).

This could be one of those stages where everyone is so marked it will go to a rider who attacks outside of the top 10-15 maybe,

But then again this is the Giro.

 

[Anonymous]

Problem for Levi is that his career is likely close to being over. But he probably still has it in him to do as you say.



Yes, good point. Willy Voet pointed out how they over pumped Zulle with Syachten, and he didn't respond that great to doping therapy.



You bring up a good point. Sastre and Basso both were at the ToC, and both were way, way back (Basso crashed, and DNF), out of sight, and not nearly in form.



I don't know that this is the case. The Giro has always been like this as far as course designs go. I think it's what Indurain, or Andy Hampsten said. In days of old the peloton would roll along at 15 mph or so for the first 3 hours on about half the stages. Now, with UCI rankings (and, yes, doping) that rarely happens. You have guys flying off the front in the first 10k, sometimes in the first 1k, almost every stage.



Yes, "preparing" for the Giro by tearing up the road at the Gila wasn't such a brilliant strategy in retrospect, was it?

As far as the "resting" part, you might be right, but the beach part is obviously a joke in reference to Contador's abilities. But it may have been best if Levi needed the rest, but to build up hemoglobin like they were claiming, to go to Leadville, Colorado for a week and just do some spins around there on the bike to keep his legs fresh.

What is certain that we now have two versions of "the truth".

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/30686745/

The Catalunya Astana squad seem to be backing the Kazakh fed, if you accept L'Equipe as a credible source.
If not, you have the words of LA and JB and twitter as your credible source.
uuuummmm.

seem pretty straightfoward to me.
johan says they owe more. why not believe that?
the catalunya sqad is not mentioned in the nbc article.
good news is that it appears the did receive what i'd think was a lottt of money. the kasaks say their paying 400000 more.
so at least some money is flowing.
to they go back the old jerseys?

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

2006 Tour, queen stage to La Toussuire. Went for it on the Croix-de-fer, gained a 6 minute advantage, was caught on the final climb...Very much doubt he'll try it again.

Thanks Issoisso. You're doing a good job correcting my missteps of today!

I think you guys are giving too much thinking into Levi at this point.

True! But a lot of Americans had some hope he might pull something off. Alas, I think Lookkg386 is correct when he says:

My opinion is that stage 17 won't decide this Giro anyway, Menchov and Di Luca (only two who I think can win) will be close enough that Di Luca will have to have another go at grabbing time before TT. (Basso's time will be 2010 maybe).

Sastre would need some super human effort at this point, but if anyone can do it, it's him. But really, the question now is can DiLuca surge enough ahead of Menchov to get the MR back, and have enough of a cushion for the final TT

Agree, with the way Basso is riding, if he can continue to improve, he could be very, very good come 2010. As in, maybe win the Tour good.

 

[Anonymous]

Levi and Astana pretty much blew their one chance on Petrano with a strategy of trying to have others tire themselves out chasing Popo, then Lance set a fast pace with Levi to follow and ride everyone off their wheel. But it completely failed as Lance wasn't fast enough, and Levi was dropped. All this after saying the stage was perfect for them, and he'd be just has happy to finish 10th than 2nd, they employed a very predictable, low-risk strategy. As I said before the only way Levi was going to win the Giro ever since Stage 12 is if he tries a suicide attack from over 50k out (Landis, Hinault, Fuente, etc.). He's not fast enough to drop anyone otherwise. He simply must attack when they will not immediately chase. There is no other way. It's been this way for nearly a week, and they failed to try on three possible stages so far, 14, 15 and 16, leaving them further painted into a corner with time running out. Maybe even on his care
.

being a lance hater clouds your judgment on levi, and the whole astana team, and Johann.
i find your fairness suspect and you objectivinty compromised because "you really hate the guy"

over and over saying bad strategy, terrible tactics, blah blah when every writer i read, six or so articles call the tactic brilliant. i'll say it again, just becuase levi didn't have the legs to carry the last climb doesn't mean the strategy was bad or awful or terrible.
it falls squarely on levi and he has accepted complete responsibility for it. he has maned up.
i'll explain the popo move to you if you like.

you said "But it completely failed as Lance wasn't fast enough, and Levi was dropped".
you'd say that because you hate lance.
what was lance supposed to do? throw him a rope?
he recognized the crutial spot and bridged up. levi was supposed to come but couldn't.
lance went back to him. plull him up the rest of the way.
you say lance wasn't fast enough. how fast his he supposed to be when he's pulling a rider along? levi admits he was slowing lance down.

by levi's own words, lance saved him from many minutres more loss.

ok.. about popo... since when is sending a teammate up te road a bad idea?
if there's going to be a chase, other teams have to do it so you can ride wheels expending less energy than the chasers. am i going to fast for you?
at some point you're supposed to be fresher than he other guys. in a crucial place where he could have been getting blow, he had a flat, and then had to chase.

if levi had come off the front as planned he would have been closing up on pop. you can't paint a better picture than a final climb with a friend up the road.

it didn't happen because of poor legs, not poor tactics.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Poor legs was indeed a big factor, true. But had Levi had the legs he did, say on Alpe d'Siusi, or Pra’ Martino, do you think he would have taken the needed time back using the tactics they did? I do not.

What do you believe Levi has left as far as his options go to win the Giro at this point?

 

[Seth Bullock]

For me Levi is gone. Has already peaked, is now overcooked and is simply racing against more explosive riders. Granted a strong team helps with energy expenditure but if you can't hold the wheel and or attack when it matters.... IMO Levi will probably stay at 6th. He is like Cadel, has the diesel engine but not the "bang and gone" speed on the climbs of Di Luca, Contador etc. Normally I would think similar (but better) things about Menchov but he is sooo strong at the moment and I think he can hold on to the MR - and good on him too as I like the cut of his jib - quiet and unassuming. Di Luca has to go all out but even if he does get back and over Menchov then there's the TT. Sastre is awesome - a seasoned campaigner, very consistent and gets stronger through the GT, but I think will stay at 3rd - has to get back 2.19 + both Di Luca and Menchov will be more attentive of him. Basso is certainly ominous for 2010 and beyond - he's made a couple of attacks which didn't work but good on him for giving it a crack.

So what about today? Will the rest day mean some have difficulty getting the legs going in the first 60km before the Blockhaus?

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I read that Stage 16 had over 5,000m (16,000') of climbing. I'm scratching my head trying to think of any stages in any GT over the last few decades that had that much climbing. I know there were some very tough Tour stages in recent years, and I remember an especially brutal stage in I believe the 1995 Giro won by Rominger that took almost eight hours. But I can't find a list. Can anyone help?

 

[Zoncolan]

I read that Stage 16 had over 5,000m (16,000') of climbing. I'm scratching my head trying to think of any stages in any GT over the last few decades that had that much climbing. I know there were some very tough Tour stages in recent years, and I remember an especially brutal stage in I believe the 1995 Giro won by Rominger that took almost eight hours. But I can't find a list. Can anyone help?

Actually, it was more like 4,200m. Same amount last year in the Giro stage 20 Rovetta- Tirano and the year before stage 15 Trento-Tre Cime di Lavaredo (remember who won that one?

 

[luckyboy]

Actually, it was more like 4,200m. Same amount last year in the Giro stage 20 Rovetta- Tirano and the year before stage 15 Trento-Tre Cime di Lavaredo (remember who won that one?

When will Sella come back from his ban by the way?

 

[jaylew]

2005 and when? It is a worthy race. Seems like he could rack up 5-10 day races like that, Tour de Suisse, Romandie, maybe a Paris-Nice, a Trento.

My bad. Won once, finished 2nd twice.

 

[jaylew]

So I guess tomorrow is either a successful breakaway or an easy win for Petacchi?

 

[Anonymous]

Poor legs was indeed a big factor, true. But had Levi had the legs he did, say on Alpe d'Siusi, or Pra’ Martino, do you think he would have taken the needed time back using the tactics they did? I do not.

What do you believe Levi has left as far as his options go to win the Giro at this point?

looking back i think he was showing vulnerability in stage 5 giving up 9 seconds and not contesting for the time bonus. that put menchov very close to him in gc. then he loses an other 19 seconds to him on stage 10 and now the pressure is really on in that monster time trial. with menchov behind him on the road in the time trial, getting his times in his ear, he more or less shreds himself and hasn't been the same since.
that said, yesterday was do or die day. objective 1, make up time, if that fails, don't lose time. the tactic astana played served either one. i think popo's motivation would have been completely different if it's levi that is making the catch or at least with the leaders.
i admit i was rooting for levi and wasn't objective about his early time loses. i'm aware that this is his only real shot at winning a major tour. i was hoping it was a case of not trying too hard too early. laying low like last year. others here saw it as cracks in his form. looks like they were right.
even before what i saw in todays stage my hopes for him winning, or even being on the podium were gone. which is a god damn shame as he'd have been the only american to podium all 3 grand tours.
you see a guy like levi carry other guys up the mountain for years and wonder if they can be the guy up the mountain. kind of like how you see sprinters leading a guy out so strong and wonder if he could have got it done on his own.
i guess the answer is most guys have their role for good reason.
i still love the guy like i do big george and think guys like them are great role models in the sport.

 

[UniSports]

Stage 18! Can't Wait!

THE FINAL 4 DAYS of the GIRO are HERE!!! Every morning the on-line broadcast starts around 8:30 and everday on TV at 12:00 PM (EST) for the next 4 days the top cyclist from around the World will duel it to be the last athlete in the pink jersey. Don’t forget to enter to win the sweepstakes with world class cycling gear! It’s a tight race and the whole cycling community will be biting at their nails for the finish.

Stage 18 Broadcast

Watch & Win Sweepstakes

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Actually, it was more like 4,200m. Same amount last year in the Giro stage 20 Rovetta- Tirano and the year before stage 15 Trento-Tre Cime di Lavaredo (remember who won that one?

That was an exciting day. The Lavaredo is so stunning. I remember watching The Greatest Show on Earth and JM Fuente riding up it, wow. In 2007 for the last 10k it looked like DiLuca was constantly on the verge of cracking as everyone crawled to the finish.

But still, any stages in recent history with 5000m of climbing? Anyone know?

 

[davestoller]

Actually, it was more like 4,200m. Same amount last year in the Giro stage 20 Rovetta- Tirano and the year before stage 15 Trento-Tre Cime di Lavaredo (remember who won that one?

That was an exciting day. The Lavaredo is so stunning. I remember watching The Greatest Show on Earth and JM Fuente riding up it, wow. In 2007 for the last 10k it looked like DiLuca was constantly on the verge of cracking as everyone crawled to the finish.

But still, any stages in recent history with 5000m of climbing? Anyone know?

Lance and Levi say nothing ever so hard in their careers and Mick Rogers agrees. Perhaps Plateua de Beille 2004 LA sez.

So does Michael Barry
http://velonews.com/article/92423/columbia-highroad-s-michael-barry-gives-an-inside-view-of

I think the issue was also the uncategorized climbs since the total climbing on riders SRMs or Garmins was way more than 4200 m.

And the heat.

And of corse some riders now linked with Austrian blood doping had their mouths closed most of the climb. Sad really.

 

[davestoller]

2006 Tour, queen stage to La Toussuire. Went for it on the Croix-de-fer, gained a 6 minute advantage, was caught on the final climb.

Very much doubt he'll try it again.

Yes, but who was up the road?
Rasmussen.

Who was chasing behind?
Everyone we now know was blood doping.
Just saying. He could never have close down the gap to Rasmussen given all we now know and the chasers behind? Hello???

 

[lookkg386]

Wow, the whole peleton looks cooked!, this has been the toughest race I have watched in a long while. Di Luca once again impressed me greatly, and Menchov seems headed for overall honours now. Tomorrow's stage looks set for a breakaway with the peleton looking for a day off.

 

[180mmCrank]

THE FINAL 4 DAYS of the GIRO are HERE!!! Every morning the on-line broadcast starts around 8:30 and everday on TV at 12:00 PM (EST) for the next 4 days the top cyclist from around the World will duel it to be the last athlete in the pink jersey. Don’t forget to enter to win the sweepstakes with world class cycling gear! It’s a tight race and the whole cycling community will be biting at their nails for the finish.

Stage 18 Broadcast

Watch & Win Sweepstakes

Do people consider this helpful 'public service announcement' or is it just a kind of spam? I find it a little irritating but what do others think?

 

[craig1985]

I understand the GC (if I don't I should just stop following cycling), the points, mountains, young rider, and team classifications work (the one Astana leads), but I never understand the 'T.V. classification', 'Most combative classification', 'Trofeo Fuga Cervelo classification' (I think it is for each KM in a breakaway), 'Fair Play classification', and the 'Trofeo Super Team classification'.

 

[BroDeal]

I understand the GC (if I don't I should just stop following cycling), the points, mountains, young rider, and team classifications work (the one Astana leads), but I never understand the 'T.V. classification', 'Most combative classification', 'Trofeo Fuga Cervelo classification' (I think it is for each KM in a breakaway), 'Fair Play classification', and the 'Trofeo Super Team classification'.

That is nothing. I'm not sure I ever understood the intergiro competition...or maybe I just thought it was stupid.