Official thread: Should descents be a factor in GC/ are Tour's descents too dangerous

[Oldman]

Yes these descents are too dangerous... Pushing these guys that we love to their limits, and then seeing which of them will push themselves too far for fame and glory, only to end in brutal tragedy, I'd rather take away some of the excitement from watching the sport then see another shrouded body on my screen.

C'mon. These type of descents have been around forever and the pavement is pristine. Any race that features a descent offers an opportunity for the rider capable of exploiting it just like the Galibier for climbers. Contenders need to be up front and know how to ride their line down.

 

[Archibald]

should be happy they're not descending on this sort of road...

 

[Caledon]

Yes these descents are too dangerous... Pushing these guys that we love to their limits, and then seeing which of them will push themselves too far for fame and glory, only to end in brutal tragedy, I'd rather take away some of the excitement from watching the sport then see another shrouded body on my screen.

Oh, good grief. Nothing like a rational take on a subject. How many "shrouded" bodies have you seen on your screen then? And were those, fortunately rare, deaths caused by what most pro riders would call a dangerous descent? Or was it simply a misjudgement on a fast section of downhill? Every rider including us plebs has probably come close to losing it on a fast downhill. Grow up man - if you want to climb hills you will need to come down them too and sometimes those descents are technically demanding. But I will say it again riders are rarely killed.

 

[Deagol]

should be happy they're not descending on this sort of road...

The (no longer held) Saturn Classic had a descent sort of like that on a road called "Oh my God Road" and also a worse-looking dirt descent on the south side of Guanella Pass. It didn't look like a good idea, but JV posts here sometimes and has raced that race. I wonder if there are other forum members here who have also done it?

Edit: the bike in that pic looks like a single speed ??!!

 

[durgadas]

Silly Whiner, Tours Are For Men

I was a fan of the Brothers Schleck up until this Tour. They speak as though they are concerned for the overall health of the racers, but it's the racers themselves that decide how fast to go, and how many risks to take.

Maybe they are better served trying to do triathlons or running. They talk a lot but don't attack much, even when their main rival is down or not feeling well, and they complain a lot about their concerns disguised as concern for others. I saw the last attack by Andy on one stage and he gained 2 seconds in the final 800m. Why didn't you use all the power previously on the climb? Come on. Their is strong, and there is stupid. There is confidence and there is arrogance.

This is a sign they've started to get bad advice and surround themselves with yes men.

Contador will win this Tour and will have it (sadly) taken from him by CAS. Then the Schlocks will have their Tour win in a way befitting their whiny ways.

 

[Cobblestones]

Seems pretty unanimous.

 

[Dead Star]

Seems pretty unanimous.

Doesn't it just? The fans have spoken. Don't alter anything ASO etc.

 

[No_Balls]

Andy whines today (again) about the descents:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/video-andy-schleck-again-critical-of-tour-descent

Question: Is there any risk that his whining has effects? You know, like in the sad-kid-who-get-whats-he-want-in-the-end kind of way?

 

[jobiwan]

Andy whines today (again) about the descents:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/video-andy-schleck-again-critical-of-tour-descent

Question: Is there are risk that his whining has effects? You know, like in the sad-kid-who-get-whats-he-want-in-the-end kind of way?

I wouldn't call that particular interview whining.

It WAS a pretty technical and tricky descent, you have to give him that. Hivert went off the road 3 times, and Voeckler got lucky. Had it been wet, it most certainly would have been very dangerous.

Nothing in the article or video itself is controversial, it's just the guy who says it. Anyone else and it's just an honest assessment of the stage, it just seems like whining when it comes from Andy.

AGAIN, I'm just talking about THAT interview. Yesterday's interviews of course were whining, today's didn't seem foul to me.

He still would do better to just race the course they give him though!!

 

[benpounder]

I am compelled to add a few thoughts...

Firstly - I dont know if you were here for the Giro - if you were you obviously werent reading the race threads as Conti's complaints were greeted with a whole lot of negative comments and abuse.

I've been around since this forum started. But I do take a break during the winter months. That is when I can indulge in my real passion, alpine skiing, and (world cup) alpine ski racing. I mention that because alpine skiing is inherently dangerous, and yet so many people continue to ski, and race. I have skied at over 130km/h, jumped off 15m cliffs, and out-skied an avalanche. My only injuries have happened when I was not paying attention, was being stupid, or showing off for some chicks (but I repeat myself).

Likewise with cycling. I've ridden in Germany, Italy, Austria, Switzerland, France, Japan, and here in the states. But my only serious crash happened on the front hill down from Ft Lewis College in Durango CO. Next time you talk with Bob Roll, Ned Overton, Dave Weins, or Tom Danielson, ask them about those two switchbacks.

...the Crostis descent IS actually considerably dangerous. Much more so than the ones being whinged about here. I was sorely disappointed with the decision to take out Crostis ... but more so at the way it was done than the decision itself which I kind of understood.

Cycling is inherently dangerous. But they are calculated risks. On dry roads, I know I can ride down Lookout Mountain outside of Golden CO faster than any car. There are parts of Independence Pass and Red Mountain Pass where cars can not keep up. And coming down Rabbit Ears Pass, I am breaking the speed limit. All have very serious consequences if I screw up (well, not Rabbit Ears). But no, it was a silly 100m, 7% descent from college that sent me to the hospital. Roads are only dangerous if you ride them imprudently.

A long way for me to say that descents are just as integral to any grand tour as their mythical climbs. Hearing Andy Schleck whine about yesterday and today’s descents doesn’t score him any points in my book. And neither did Contador's whining about Crostis. The difference is that Andy had to ride the roads he did not like; Alberto succeeded in getting the one his disliked removed.

 

[Maxiton]

should be happy they're not descending on this sort of road...

The (no longer held) Saturn Classic had a descent sort of like that on a road called "Oh my God Road" and also a worse-looking dirt descent on the south side of Guanella Pass. It didn't look like a good idea, but JV posts here sometimes and has raced that race. I wonder if there are other forum members here who have also done it?

Edit: the bike in that pic looks like a single speed ??!!

If I'm not mistaken this is circa 1930s. Back then, bikes had two speeds. In order to change speeds the rider had to dismount, loosen the wheel from the frame with a wrench, turn the wheel so that left and right were reversed, then remount the wheel and re-tighten.

Riding in the mountains on unpaved, gravel and dirt roads: now that really was mountain biking, but long before mountain bikes as such existed. Up through maybe the 1950s riders wore goggles to keep from losing an eye from flying gravel.

I think it would be cool if they added a mountain bike stage to today's GTs. Some poorly paved / unpaved roads and off-camber turns in the mountains, maybe even bit of single-track, but with the use of mountain bikes for the stage being mandatory.

EDIT: I also think it would be cool if I had a motorcycle like that guy's.

 

[FrankDay]

I also think it would be cool if I had a motorcycle like that guy's.

Nah, all you want are the helmet and goggles? Kick starting would get old real quick.

 

[Winterfold]

Yes descents should be a factor
climbs should be a factor
winds should be a factor
rain should be a factor
heat should be a factor
time trials should be a factor
cobbles should be a factor
flats should be a factor
technical finishes should be a factor
If it's part of the challenge of racing on your roads, it should be in the Tour de France.

+10000000000000000000000000000

Schlecks still moaning despite not losing time

I would love to descend roads that safe - no traffic, perfect surface

Now I hear France in July is too cold. FFS. Grow some.

 

[philrides]

Too dangerous

to put a finish line at the bottom of a technical descent. Name any race where there is a finish line at the bottom of a technical descent. That's for mountain biking.

The difference is that you must take especially crazy risks to reach the finish line without giving up time. It's not a choice if you want to win. It's too risky for the riders, and would result in fatalities/broken bones/blood at a much higher rate than we already see.

If you are a bad descender, you will not do well in many races including the Tour. You must be a good descender - and lucky - to win already. The question is: where do you draw the line?

Keep the finish lines 10K from the descents, and then the riders have more of a choice how to approach the descent.

 

[Mambo95]

Personally, I think the long descents off great mountains, followed by a few km of flat are a waste.

But these last two stages, which I will dub 'Norwegian stages', are a welcome addition.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

to put a finish line at the bottom of a technical descent. Name any race where there is a finish line at the bottom of a technical descent. That's for mountain biking.

The difference is that you must take especially crazy risks to reach the finish line without giving up time. It's not a choice if you want to win. It's too risky for the riders, and would result in fatalities/broken bones/blood at a much higher rate than we already see.

If you are a bad descender, you will not do well in many races including the Tour. You must be a good descender - and lucky - to win already. The question is: where do you draw the line?

Keep the finish lines 10K from the descents, and then the riders have more of a choice how to approach the descent.

Stage 16, 2008 Tour de France.
Stage 17, 2009 Tour de France.
Stage 15, 2010 Tour de France.

 

[Dead Star]

Grrr, if it wasn't for a GT contender who moans and whinges to distract everyone from his major weakness, we wouldn't even have this thread/poll!

If I remember correctly, wasn't Ullrich a notoriously bad descender as well? I can remember some footage of some hairy moments and that crash he had into some shurbs after he went off road.

 

[Maxiton]

+10000000000000000000000000000

Schlecks still moaning despite not losing time

I would love to descend roads that safe - no traffic, perfect surface

Now I hear France in July is too cold. FFS. Grow some.

Seriously. Imagine if you could be assured of no oncoming traffic, and could use the whole road. That's my dream.

These pros have no business complaining. Maybe excessive complaining should result in a time penalty. That sounds like a Desgrange rule.

 

[red_flanders]

to put a finish line at the bottom of a technical descent. Name any race where there is a finish line at the bottom of a technical descent. That's for mountain biking.

The difference is that you must take especially crazy risks to reach the finish line without giving up time. It's not a choice if you want to win. It's too risky for the riders, and would result in fatalities/broken bones/blood at a much higher rate than we already see.

If you are a bad descender, you will not do well in many races including the Tour. You must be a good descender - and lucky - to win already. The question is: where do you draw the line?

Keep the finish lines 10K from the descents, and then the riders have more of a choice how to approach the descent.

Why on earth would we want there to be 10k of flat? Clearly that would negate any advantage a good descender would have. Take EBH today, took it to some punks.

I'm getting sick of this line of discussion. The Schlecks have now put this nonsense into the lexicon. Rubbish. Shame on them both.

 

[benpounder]

The Schlecks have now put this nonsense into the lexicon. Rubbish. Shame on them both.

Yep, they have certainly put the exclaimation point on the statement Alberto made during the Giro.

 

[For The World]

to put a finish line at the bottom of a technical descent. Name any race where there is a finish line at the bottom of a technical descent. That's for mountain biking.

The difference is that you must take especially crazy risks to reach the finish line without giving up time. It's not a choice if you want to win. It's too risky for the riders, and would result in fatalities/broken bones/blood at a much higher rate than we already see.

If you are a bad descender, you will not do well in many races including the Tour. You must be a good descender - and lucky - to win already. The question is: where do you draw the line?

Keep the finish lines 10K from the descents, and then the riders have more of a choice how to approach the descent.

Milano-San Remo used to finish at the bottom of the Poggio (after the descent).
Giro di Lombardia finishes only two or three kilometers from the bottom of a descent. Philippe Gilbert won last year in pouring rain while going faster down that descent than Michele Scarponi.

 

[danjo007]

sad people like andy schmuck should stay home if he's gonna cry about the decents...
do we hear any sprinters saying, OMG Galibier??? F*That, its too big.

 

[spanky wanderlust]

descents are dangerous and boring.

andy schleck should commission mc escher to design an entirely uphill tour.

 

[red_flanders]

Yep, they have certainly put the exclaimation point on the statement Alberto made during the Giro.

Oh, you mean when he made comments about the course before he rode it, not rationalizations after he lost time. Gotcha.

 

[Deagol]

.... .... Next time you talk with Bob Roll, Ned Overton, Dave Weins, or Tom Danielson, ask them about those two switchbacks.
.

Haha, I went over that Guardrail on the FLC front hill once also. Fortunately I wasn't going super fast.