Official Thread: Stage 20: Montélimar - Mt. Ventoux 167km

[Publicus]

I think he figured 3 stages was enough, and he didn't need to go for it. I commend him for helping Lance bridge an attack with a couple of km to go, and for staying on Schleck's wheel. He might have actually listened to the DS today

I wonder if Lance will apologize and thank Contador for what he did for him today?

 

[dobrien]

Welcome to the next many tour's. Contdádor is a motorcycle and can sit with anyone, anywhere - if not beat them.

With all due respect, that's what everyone was saying after Jan Ullrich won his first Tour....things change, and life deals cards no one expects.

Yes, a disappointing Tour....great young talents coming up; hoping next year is better. This Tour represents why I love the classics (ROUBAIX!!) so much better; much more unpredictable.

 

[rhubroma]

What a lame stage! And how disrespectful to the mountain!

This Tour course sucked! We saw Andy pulling for his brother and Contador held up because of his overbearing teammate. While Garate steals the show.

Armstrong racing for 3rd on GC, Frank trying to take 3rd on GC, Andy's and above all Contador's wings clipped. How friggin lame!!!

 

[davestoller]

I guess we can cut some slack to ASO: They tried something and it didn't really work.

The whole "not deciding the race before 3rd week" was detrimental for the Pyrenees and it's too bad. "Elles ont été escamotées" as we said here but in retrospect, more decisive stages at the middle of the races would maybe have helped.

All in all we also have to consider that Armstrong-Wiggins-F.Schleck-Nibali-Kloden were maybe just that close in form to each other and that they are not the "attacking type", explaining why they always finished all kind of cluttered to each other.

Not the attacking kind of riders?
Really?

F. Schleck--attacked and won Alpe d'Huez in 2006
Armstrong--how many attacks has he done and won, too many too count.
Wiggins--had never placed in a GT before so rode conservatively but if I recall he did attack on Verbier in last km
Nibali--well, lets just say he's got some 'splainin to do

But I think your other point is the main one--they ARE very close to each other in from just now. Although if Lance hadnt broken his collar bone, he would be a level above them since he basically showed that he is on Ventoux today.

 

[Azdak6]

I do not know.
I admit it would have been pointless for GC (not many gaps upon arrival), but Andy should have tested Contador for the stage, he looked pretty good today.

The whole brother in arms deal is nice and all, I won't deny, but Andy cannot tow Franck forever, esp. in upcoming Tours.

But overall, I think Pellizotti would have been a better winner. He was one of the exciting guys while the peloton was boring, and he tried 3 or 4 (?) times to win a stage this tour. He didn't have the legs though.

Good for Rabo. Tony Martin seems to have done something wrong, he should have tried to drop Garate (maybe he couldn't?).

All in all it was not an easy climb. I don't think it is whining to say that the plan for this Tour did not work. I agree with the people saying that ASO should stop trying to "manufacture" excitement. Ventoux was somewhat meaningless because of tactical considerations (Andy waiting for Franck) and the gaps for 1st and 2nd place were too large already. Hope they will learn their lessons for next year.

It's not like they haven't done this before. They have trying "gimmicky" courses for at least the last 8 or nine years, IMO. You can't manufacture drama with the course. The riders make the drama. The fact is that, if you have a dominant rider, you will usually have a less interesting race.

Some of the most "exciting" Tours, IMO, have been those contested by a group of second-tier riders.

 

[Cobblestones]

Who decided LA was a domestique

Uhm, the race? It's just that LA never realized it.

 

[Animal]

I have to say it was pretty exciting if you were a Brit.

Bradley Wiggins is not a top climber, he's a good climber.

His hold onto that front group was tenuous, and he fought tooth and nail not to lose his place. It was obvious he couldn't attack Armstrong, he was doing his utmost to hold 4th place.

And that's a good result. Next year, he will be justified in having total preparation for one goal, and for never doing a stroke of work on the road. Hopefully, he'll do even better.

 

[pedaling squares]

I wonder if Lance will apologize and thank Contador for what he did for him today?

I doubt it. AC didn't do anything to help LA until the last km, not that he should have had to either. If he really wanted to play domestique he could have set tempo for LA until AS was more than a minute ahead. We know there was no way Andy was going to claw back 4:14 the way AC looked today. The last km bridge to the Schlecks helped LA for sure, but it was also in AC's interest.

 

[slcbiker]

Contador, to a certain extent, did help LA. Props to him for being a good teammate, regardless of what else happened between those two.

I think the standings ended up about right. AC was clearly the strongest all around. AS was next strongest climber, and did pretty well in the TT.
LA climbed better as the race went on and did a better TT than FS.

Be very interesting to see what Wiggins looks like next year. Assuming there's not a million doping violations, there's alot of strong young guys out there. LA won't get any gifts next year.

 

[Publicus]

With all due respect, that's what everyone was saying after Jan Ullrich won his first Tour....things change, and life deals cards no one expects.

Yes, a disappointing Tour....great young talents coming up; hoping next year is better. This Tour represents why I love the classics (ROUBAIX!!) so much better; much more unpredictable.

Your comment would have made sense after the 2007 Tour. He just notched his 4th Grand Tour victory in as many starts. I'd say he's well beyond the Jan Ullrich comparisons. Well beyond...

 

[lafleche]

Uhm, the race?

You sure that's how it works?

 

[rhubroma]

With all due respect, that's what everyone was saying after Jan Ullrich won his first Tour....

Dude AC is a MONSTER and genius on the bike. Jan couldn't climb nearly as well. The two are leagues apart. Unless Alberto decides to become a fat drunk, the cycling crown is his for many years to come.

 

[Publicus]

I have to say it was pretty exciting if you were a Brit.

Bradley Wiggins is not a top climber, he's a good climber.

His hold onto that front group was tenuous, and he fought tooth and nail not to lose his place. It was obvious he couldn't attack Armstrong, he was doing his utmost to hold 4th place.

And that's a good result. Next year, he will be justified in having total preparation for one goal, and for never doing a stroke of work on the road. Hopefully, he'll do even better.

Next year he'll likely be pacing his new teammate Contador up the mountains

 

[davestoller]

What a lame stage! And how disrespectful to the mountain!

This Tour course sucked! We saw Andy pulling for his brother and Contador held up because of his overbearing teammate. While Garate steals the show.

Armstrong racing for 3rd on GC, Frank trying to take 3rd on GC, Andy's and above all Contador's wings clipped. How friggin lame!!!

We also saw the Schlecks use the motocams multiple times today!

And we also saw a motocam completely stop Andy's last attack.

The overall course did suck.
THe mountain, the crowds, and the wind neutralized most of the racing.
And if the most exciting battle is for third, you have a problem.
But you have to admit, the fact it was Lance is responsible fro the a lot of the crowds, the hype about the race for third.

THe ifs....

If Levi and Horner had been in the race, Lance would be second or third back to back with Levi.

If COntador hadnt attacked and dropped Kloden, he wouldnt have had to ride exclusively for Lance today and could have gone for the stage win...but maybe his failed attack showed he couldnt dominate like that and needed to play it safe today, as Bruyneel advised.

Contador got a lot of flack from bigtime retired riders, so he probably wanted to establish some respect with the way he rode today.

 

[Cobblestones]

You sure that's how it works?

Look at Garmin as an example.

 

[rhubroma]

Contador, to a certain extent, did help LA. Props to him for being a good teammate, regardless of what else happened between those two.

I think the standings ended up about right. AC was clearly the strongest all around. AS was next strongest climber, and did pretty well in the TT.
LA climbed better as the race went on and did a better TT than FS.

Be very interesting to see what Wiggins looks like next year. Assuming there's not a million doping violations, there's alot of strong young guys out there. LA won't get any gifts next year.

If Contador had been allowed to attach today, LA would have lost another 2 minutes and AS another 30-40 seconds. Lance did not climb any better than he did in the Alps. Frank Shleck was worse. Andy and Alberto, the same. But those two had their wings clipped today, which made LA's performance seem better than it actually was.

 

[ThisFrenchGuy]

Not the attacking kind of riders?
Really?

F. Schleck--attacked and won Alpe d'Huez in 2006
Armstrong--how many attacks has he done and won, too many too count.
Wiggins--had never placed in a GT before so rode conservatively but if I recall he did attack on Verbier in last km
Nibali--well, lets just say he's got some 'splainin to do

But I think your other point is the main one--they ARE very close to each other in from just now. Although if Lance hadnt broken his collar bone, he would be a level above them since he basically showed that he is on Ventoux today.

I think I may have worded that wrongly.
I was not trying to belittle them (just to make myself clear), it has more to do with how they climbed in this tour. It was a bit unfair to Schleck the elder I reckon. Nibali I don't know well, maybe it is not his usual style, on this Tour he just followed the best (which in itself is pretty good, don't get me wrong). Wiggins of course was conservative because this is new to him, Armstrong is more (IMHO, etc...) a tempo man-diesel-suffocating the opposition on a high rate etc...

Another thing about today: the peloton was broken up before the climb, so no outsider was there to spice up things. Not enough chaos to break the strategic mold, maybe.

 

[indurain666]

Dude AC is a MONSTER and genius on the bike. Jan couldn't climb nearly as well. The two are leagues apart. Unless Alberto decides to become a fat drunk, the cycling crown is his for many years to come.

Strongly disagree, Jan could climb in 97, he finished 40 second off the pace of Pantani on Alpe Dhuez, which (if properly measured) translates to 36: 45- 36:50 (measured at 13.8km). He just never reached that level again ever.

Amazing ride by Andy Schleck, waiting for his bro while sacrificing his stage win. What a classy and elegant racer he is , kudos to him. Perhaps Lance boy could learn a thing or two from this young rider. Not sure if it was the best tactic, but I guarantee that Frank will always race his heart out for Andy on the years to come.

AC is just out of this world. Unbeatable.

Any ideas at the times up Ventoux today? I am guessing 1:02 - 1:05 for Schleck and Contador..

 

[Cobblestones]

Strongly disagree, Jan could climb in 97, he finished 40 second off the pace of Pantani on Alpe Dhuez, which (if properly measured) translates to 36: 45- 36:50 (measured at 13.8km). He just never reached that level again ever.

Certainly not after Festina, but that's for the other board.

 

[phillop]

hayden roulston, 25th, not bad for a kiwi!!!!

 

[Azdak6]

I will echo a good day for Garate, his name has been mentioned for some time to do something big, and he finally did. Though I have to say I'm a bit jaded about anyone in a Rabo jersey these days. And I am glad to see some of the younger riders perform well.

Regardless of who won or didn't or who placed where, I too was disappointed with the stage. There was indeed so much talk about how the Ventoux would be the decider, it would all come down to the Ventoux. But in the end, very little change on GC. It was not that different than most of the other mountain stages, or flat stages, actually.

I'd be hard pressed to believe anyone who honestly says this Tour was exciting, or lived up to the expectations.

I'm not sure what more could have been expected today. We saw numerous attacks, (albeit not for the overall victory) and they just didn't work.

Say Schleck and Contador would have gone for the win (something I agree I would have liked to have seen)--you would have seen a couple of attacks, a strong counter by Contador and a solo victory. Or two guys riding head to head and one takes off in the last Km--not much different than what happened.

I would say that, in hindsight, Ventoux is not a good choice for a "climactic" stage battle. The climb is so long that I think it discourages early attacks or all-out attacks except near the end.

 

[indurain666]

Certainly not after Festina, but that's for the other board.

Lets noooot get into this

 

[Publicus]

If Contador had been allowed to attach today, LA would have lost another 2 minutes and AS another 30-40 seconds. Lance did not climb any better than he did in the Alps. Frank Shleck was worse. Andy and Alberto, the same. But those two had their wings clipped today, which made LA's performance seem better than it actually was.

No, no, no. LA has ridden himself into form. Just wait. Next year he is dominating all of these young kids. The Boss is BACK with Radio Shack!!!!

Ok seriously, I think you are onto something. I think Frank didn't have it today.

 

[amsterdamned]

We also saw the Schlecks use the motocams multiple times today!

And we also saw a motocam completely stop Andy's last attack.

The overall course did suck.
THe mountain, the crowds, and the wind neutralized most of the racing.
And if the most exciting battle is for third, you have a problem.
But you have to admit, the fact it was Lance is responsible fro the a lot of the crowds, the hype about the race for third.

THe ifs....

If Levi and Horner had been in the race, Lance would be second or third back to back with Levi.

If COntador hadnt attacked and dropped Kloden, he wouldnt have had to ride exclusively for Lance today and could have gone for the stage win...but maybe his failed attack showed he couldnt dominate like that and needed to play it safe today, as Bruyneel advised.

Contador got a lot of flack from bigtime retired riders, so he probably wanted to establish some respect with the way he rode today.

too many if in your post... i heard Luc leblanc saying the opposite on the radio

 

[Aguirre]

this goes for you LEVI!!!!!

if we substract 2 minutes to Klodi... then he will be third in podium and not Lance!!!!!!

Lance-bruyneel-levi a pact made in hell!!!!