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Official thread - TdF Stage 4: Team Time Trial (Montpellier - Montpellier 38 km)

Mar 13, 2009
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This already looks like a key stage of this tour with key contenders such as Evans, Sastre, Menchov having to limit their losses. Saxo will be looking to bridge back time gaps from the ITT whilst Astana will want to consolidate their early positioning. Could well be a turquoise train on the front end of GC after this stage. Garmin will be eyeing the Maillot jaune for Wiggins.

Looks very much like a 3 horse race but i'll rate Columbia ahead of Astana and Garmin. I'll also expect solid performances from Saxo and the LeakyGas boys.

1) Columbia
2) Astana 5 sec
3) Garmin 25 sec

Over to others....
 
Jun 29, 2009
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I don't think Sastre will lose much time, Hausler-Hushovd-Klier-Lancaster-Roulston can all put the hammer down for a while; Silence-Lotto should have more problems, especially with Lang not being in top shape.

Garmin,Columbia, Saxo-Bank, Astana all within 30s
Liquigas, Cervelo a bit behind
Silence Lotto about 1min
 
Jun 22, 2009
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^ I'm thinking the time differences will be more severe.

1. Astana
2. Highroad
3. Garmin

------ (45secs - 1min)

4. Saxobank

------ (1min - 2min)

5. Liquigas
6. Rabobank (around 2 mins)
7. Silence ( " " " )

------ (2min +)

Cervelo and co

EDIT/PS: Hope i am wrong !
 
Jun 18, 2009
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BroDeal said:
1) Columbia
2) Saxo (+5 secs)
3) Satana (+15 secs)
4) Garmin (+25)

Saxo above Astana? I guess with those TT machines, the Schleck brothers, that must be the correct choice. Can Cancellara pull the whole time?

Astana wins it easily.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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38/9=4.2K per person, if everyone takes an equal share in the TTT. A TTT is a team effort, so your team is only as good as the weakest links. Since the time of the fifth rider counts, a well balanced team that doesn't drop the weaker riders like ripe plums from a tree, is a prerequisite to do well.

A team with 'sprinters' could do well, so obviously Columbia is one to reckon with. Given the technical course, which is geared more towards fast accelarations to get back up to speed, constant changing rythm, I think Columbia has a lot of potential in theory. The team also has a number of power houses for the steeper sections, with Kirchen, Rogers, Martin, and Monfort. Do they have a weaker link? Perhaps the weakest link is actually also their strong suit, namely the sprinter's contingent (Cavendish, Renshaw, Eisel). The elevation profile shows that the hill is in the first section, followed by a descent and a flat where the sprinters would eventually have to excel. The questions are, will they still be there, has this not slowed the team down to keep them attached, and with how much juice left to put down the hammer? Another problem is, will the sprinters want to go full throttle, as stage five could also be a stage for Cavendish.

Astana, with the bigger, longer-distance TT specialists (4 in top 10 Monaco) could have some problems with the short accelerations, twists and turns. On the other hand, the elevation profile also indicates lots of false flats, ups and downs, which requires more endurance to keep the rythm high throughout the entire stage. This seems better tailored to the guys on the Astana team. The team is fresh, eager, motivated, and ready to put some distance between them and the rest of the GC contenders. As Levi, Contador, Kloden, Armstrong showed in the 15.5K TT, technical sections can still be ridden well by TT specialists. I think they are the number one favorite to take the stage. Weakest links, Murayev, Rast, and perhaps chronically out of shape Popovich.

Garmin has a very well balanced team, with guys like Farar, Dean on the one hand, as well as Zabrisky, Vandevelde, Millar and Wiggins (4 in the top 20 in Monaco) on the other hand. Weakest link, Farar, Dean and Maaskant in the first section.

Saxo is probably the last team that could vie for victory. They had 3 riders (Cancellara, Schleck, Larson) placed in the top 20 of the first TT. Nonetheless, they have had to defend yellow the past 2 days, so that wasted at least some necesarry energy. However, keeping yellow is something that strongly motivates a team, as well as positioning Schleck well for the mountains. Weakest link(s)? Cancellara if he goes too fast, otherwise F.Schleck (does he need to finish with the team to safeguard a good position before the mountains?), Chris Sorensen and O'Grady.

Liquigas could be a top 5 surprise, with guys like Nibali, Kreuziger as absolute specialist (top 10 Monaco), and Pellizotti, Vanotti, Vandborg as solid TTers (finishing within 7s of each other in Monaco) who keep the train running smooth. Weakest links? Bennati, Kushynski, Willems...

Rabobank has a solid team with at least 6 men that can ride a similar rythm/speed. Monaco showed that Menchov is awfully out of shape, but it could be a great motivator to get the train back on track. Monaco also showed that Ten Dam, Garate, Menchov, Gesink, Posthuma and Clement were positioned within 45s of each other. That means Flecha, Freire and Nierman are the weaker links.

Silence Lotto seems to be the team to lose given their captain's abilities individually. Evans put in a great performance in Monaco, but his team was far from coherent. #2 Vandebroeck at 1.11 and #3 Wegelius at 1.49 were separated by 38s, followed by the 'unknown' Delage at 1.55. If Grabsch can get his act together, these 5 could be the engine of the team. Van Avermaet, Schierlinkcx, Lloyd and Vansummeren, although they might not have put in a great Monaco effort, highlight potential weaknesses.
 
Jul 6, 2009
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lance in yellow?

after Astana spanks everyone (mainly Saxo) in the TTT .. Lance has a silly good shot of putting on the mellow johny! wow , maybe contador needs to learn how to ride in the peloton.. :eek:


who woulda thunk it?
 
Jun 9, 2009
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another sign today was columbia leading and garmin chasing unable to close them down. Out of the four possible teams to win astana have had the easiest ride so far, but if the wind is anything like today your strong power tt riders like canc or grabsch could play to a greater effect.

Tough call will have to go with Astana with Fabs to keep yellow.
 
39*23t said:
another sign today was columbia leading and garmin chasing unable to close them down. Out of the four possible teams to win astana have had the easiest ride so far, but if the wind is anything like today your strong power tt riders like canc or grabsch could play to a greater effect.

Tough call will have to go with Astana with Fabs to keep yellow.

I agree. I don't think Astana puts 40+ seconds into Saxo Bank or that they want to at this point. Bruyneel basically admitted as much today (that they drove the break so that Spartacus retains the yellow after tomorrow).
 
Mar 10, 2009
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ingsve said:
Columbia certainly doesn't gain from the push they did today either.
I really dont understand why so many think Columbia is such a threat. Sure they have a potentially great team, but Stapleton has already admitted that their tactics are for stage wins. As such, why would they waste so much energy for such little gain with so much potential downside? Cavendish in Green is their primary goal, followed by stage wins. Stage 5 (and maybe 6) has Cav written all over it, but he will need a strong team to bring back the break-aways. Garmin will be the most motivated to win the TTT, and they and Saxo will be close to Astana. Liquigas, Rabobank, and Cervelo will be motivated, but they dont have the horsepower to keep up.

Astana
Saxobank +30
Garmin +35
Columbia +1:30
Rabobank +1:40
Cervelo +1:55
Liquigas +2:40
 
Publicus said:
I agree. I don't think Astana puts 40+ seconds into Saxo Bank or that they want to at this point. Bruyneel basically admitted as much today (that they drove the break so that Spartacus retains the yellow after tomorrow).

I feel different, tomorrow is a decent length course, and its a fairly technical course. Eventhough Riis has an excellent record in the TTT, I don't think they have the fire power that they use to. Neither Schleck is that good at the TT discipline. PLus has anyone notices how much Frank Schleck crashes, especially on turns (Last year when he went over a fence on technical descent comes to mind). What will help is that the best TT in the world is not only on their team, but has a mission to hold on to yellow.

I really liked Columbia at the start, but after the last 2 days effort, I am just not sure how much will be in the tank for tomorrow.

I think the real loser is Garmin, because if Wiggins had made the split, then they were looking really good at getting yellow then. I like them to win the TT now since this has been there single focus for the most part.

I think the big winner after yesterday and for this TT will be Kirchen. he has finished 7th and 8th the lat 2 seasons, and thanks to the addition of the TT and the 40 seconds from stage 3, with a little bit of luck, he can maybe contend for a podium spot.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Carl0880 said:
I feel different, tomorrow is a decent length course, and its a fairly technical course.

Actually, it's a pretty short TTT course.

anyway, the start list:

14u30: Caisse d'Epargne
14u37: Katusha
14u44: Rabobank
14u51: Lampre
14u58: Bouygues Telecom
15u05: AG2R
15u12: Skil-Shimano
15u19: Française des Jeux
15u26: Agritubel
15u33: Silence
15u40: Quick.Step
15u47: Cervélo
15u54: Milram
16u01: Liquigas
16u08: Euskaltel
16u15: Cofidis
16u22: Garmin
16u29: Saxo Bank
16u36: Columbia-HTC
16u43: Astana
 
Bala Verde said:
Actually, it's a pretty short TTT course.

anyway, the start list:

14u30: Caisse d'Epargne
14u37: Katusha
14u44: Rabobank
14u51: Lampre
14u58: Bouygues Telecom
15u05: AG2R
15u12: Skil-Shimano
15u19: Française des Jeux
15u26: Agritubel
15u33: Silence
15u40: Quick.Step
15u47: Cervélo
15u54: Milram
16u01: Liquigas
16u08: Euskaltel
16u15: Cofidis
16u22: Garmin
16u29: Saxo Bank
16u36: Columbia-HTC
16u43: Astana

I wasn't sure if Astana could pull it out, but seeing the starting times it will be hard to bet against them. No way they should lose when they are starting last (unless it starts raining when thy roll out) with Garmin and Saxo setting intermediate times for them.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Bala Verde said:
Dropped riders do their own time...

And man are those times UGLY....You ride above your threshold and then just completely blow up and then have to ride to the finish hanging in the wind by yourself. Sounds like a little piece of hell to me

Astana
Saxo
Columbia
Garmin
Cervelo
Rabo

Garmin just doesn't appear to have the "juice" to hang with the other 3 in my opinion.
 
Apr 20, 2009
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1. Columbia They have shown themselves to be the best at the TTT, They have some outstanding TT riders and they are more concerned with winning stages then anything else.

----5-15 seconds-----

2. Garmin They want to win a stage. This is their best chance and they will go all out.

---10-30 secs back---

3. Astana They have the horses and I am sure Lance would love to take yellow. The problem is Johan does not want to defend the jersey and JB will likely be very happy to simply take 1+ minutes on all the real TDF contenders. I can see Astana being very conservative on such a technical course. There is no doubt that they will put at least 1 minute on the main rivals I don't see JB being greedy.

----30 seconds to 2 minutes back-----

4. SAX They have a history as an excellent TTT and they have some excellent TT riders but it odes not appear they have put in much time. I am sure they will go all out to Keep Spartacus in yellow.

-----1 minute to 3 minutes back----

5. Liquigas Some excellent TT rider and they have two excellent chances at the podium in Nibali and Kreuziger. They have the need to go all out.

Everyone else

-----1.5 minutes to 5 minutes back------
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Chomsky said:
1. Columbia They have shown themselves to be the best at the TTT, They have some outstanding TT riders and they are mroe concerned with winning stages then anything else.
Doesnt make sense. Garmin goes off ten minutes earlier, Saxo five minutes earlier, and Astana five minutes later - meaning the time checks are essentially meaningless to a Columbia squad on the road. What do they have to win, and at what cost? Should they waste the squad in the hope that Garmin, Saxo, and Astana perform poorly? And what does that do the a squad that should win the next days stage with much less effort?

Columbia will ride strong to be sure, but I just cant see them risking Cav in Green in Paris for a TTT top three.
 
Jun 22, 2009
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Astana have a HUGE advantage going last. They will know if they can take yellow or not. Judging by what I heard JB say tonight, he doesn't particularly want to have to defend the yellow already. However, on the other side of the coin is the mega publicity value of Lance in yellow and he might get a call from head office telling him that they'd like to see their shirt in yellow, whoever may be wearing it.

I suspect that Astana will maybe just fall a few seconds short of taking Cancellara's yellow.

Astana
Columbia
Saxo
Garmin
 
A

Anonymous

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astana
garmin
columbia
saxo

cancellera still in yellow, just
 
Mar 14, 2009
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How (exactly) is the TTT scored?

Can someone explain it to me?

Bala Verde said:
... so your team is only as good as the weakest links. Since the time of the fifth rider counts, ...
... s[/B].

Is this in fact how it's scored? Does everyone on the team get the same time? What if a rider gets dropped?


The cyclingnews site says, "Unlike the last team time trials in 2004 and 2005, where time losses were determined by each squad's placing, the time recorded on the line will be the deciding factor." I don't understand.

Thanks
 

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