• We're giving away a Cyclingnews water bottle! Find out more here!

Official Valverde thread.

Page 35 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Mod hat on:


Ok, this has gone far enough down this path I think. This thread is about Valverde. It's not about the perceived differences between anti-doping/doping sentiments crassly generalised to a whole nation based on anecdotes and personal feelings. Either move your discussion to a relevant thread or stop.

Cheers,

KB.
 
Aug 18, 2017
582
0
0
Re:

rick james said:
"Operación Puerto is something I shouldn't be asked about," he said bluntly.
"That's water under the bridge, and I don't even want to talk about it. I believe I've sufficiently demonstrated who I am since then.

"Who asks me about Operación Puerto is clueless.




thank my left nut he isn't Anglo Saxon saying stuff like that
CONI, the Italian Olympic committee, may confiscate the blood bags from Operacion Puerto. The court in Madrid has accepted the request of CONI, reports the Spanish newspaper AS.
The ruling means a possible breakthrough in the doping case that has been running since 2006 around the controversial physician Eufemiano Fuentes. Spanish researchers collected a total of 211 blood cases. More than two hundred athletes were involved in the doping practices of Fuentes, including 47 cyclists.
The blood bags are currently stored in the Barcelona laboratory. The laboratory has informed AS that it has not yet received a formal request for a transfer. Fuentes has immediately appealed after the judgment of the Madrid court.
Earlier this week, new world champion Alejandro Valverde did not want to answer any questions about Operacion Puerto. The Spaniard was suspended for two years due to involvement in this case in 2010.

AS article
https://as.com/ciclismo/2018/10/11/mas_ciclismo/1539281004_394846.html
 
I feel Valverde, is probably gonna have to get involved discussing Operation Puerto whether he likes it or not as it sounds like CONI have finally been granted their quota of the 211 blood bags. Looks like Spanish Cycling Federation have refused to receive their quota and so all other blood and computer equipment and data will be destroyed. Some reports saying CONI will actually receive all 211 bags though.
Fuentes has appealed this new ruling obviously.

Edit. Sorry double-post -ish. We must read AS at the same time : )
 
In fairness to Valverde, though, he is one of the few that can argue water under the bridge regards Puerto; we know he was involved, whether he pretends he was innocent or not we know that, and like only a few others, he's paid the price. Little new can be gleaned from Valverde as far as Operación Puerto is concerned; he isn't going to volunteer anything he doesn't have to, that much is clear, and what are people expecting, that he's going to be sanctioned? Unlike most of the others in Puerto, Valverde, like Scarponi and Basso, actually has been suspended, so apart from stripping a few of his pre-2006 results (and in that instance, which ones? We know that these cases can involve some selectivity, just look at Menchov being stripped of 65th in the Tour but not 1st in the Giro for example) what can they do to him without falling foul of double jeopardy?

The big thing for it is, hardly anybody can pay at this point in time. Valverde is just about the last person from the investigation left of any relevance. I know Mancebo and Sevilla are still active but they've been personae non grata at the top level for a decade and have in reality suffered far more for their involvement than the guys that got bans. They're also 40+ and only competing in distant, less high profile scenes whereas obviously Ally Vally is about as prominent as a rider can get, wearing the rainbow jersey in his sunset like Joop Zoetemelk or something. What are we going to gain from a few post-dated suspensions for the likes of Allan Davis, António Colóm and co.? It's meandered for so long and so many of the actants from a cycling point of view are already well known about, that it's almost faded from relevance at this stage; the known Puerto riders' careers will always have that slight cloud to them. And while there may be something at stake for those who have some of the unknown bags, or knowing definitively who some of the "probably that person but not certainly" bags are, Alejandro Valverde is not one of those people. He's been DNA-matched to a bag, he's been linked definitively to Puerto and he is forever indelibly tainted by it already. Therefore he likely has nothing to fear from this investigation other than repetitious questions he doesn't want to answer and will likely continue to evade in the same manner as always given that he's already told us all he's ever likely to be willing to tell us on the subject.
 
Re:

Libertine Seguros said:
In fairness to Valverde, though, he is one of the few that can argue water under the bridge regards Puerto; we know he was involved, whether he pretends he was innocent or not we know that, and like only a few others, he's paid the price. Little new can be gleaned from Valverde as far as Operación Puerto is concerned; he isn't going to volunteer anything he doesn't have to, that much is clear, and what are people expecting, that he's going to be sanctioned? Unlike most of the others in Puerto, Valverde, like Scarponi and Basso, actually has been suspended, so apart from stripping a few of his pre-2006 results (and in that instance, which ones? We know that these cases can involve some selectivity, just look at Menchov being stripped of 65th in the Tour but not 1st in the Giro for example) what can they do to him without falling foul of double jeopardy?

The big thing for it is, hardly anybody can pay at this point in time. Valverde is just about the last person from the investigation left of any relevance. I know Mancebo and Sevilla are still active but they've been personae non grata at the top level for a decade and have in reality suffered far more for their involvement than the guys that got bans. They're also 40+ and only competing in distant, less high profile scenes whereas obviously Ally Vally is about as prominent as a rider can get, wearing the rainbow jersey in his sunset like Joop Zoetemelk or something. What are we going to gain from a few post-dated suspensions for the likes of Allan Davis, António Colóm and co.? It's meandered for so long and so many of the actants from a cycling point of view are already well known about, that it's almost faded from relevance at this stage; the known Puerto riders' careers will always have that slight cloud to them. And while there may be something at stake for those who have some of the unknown bags, or knowing definitively who some of the "probably that person but not certainly" bags are, Alejandro Valverde is not one of those people. He's been DNA-matched to a bag, he's been linked definitively to Puerto and he is forever indelibly tainted by it already. Therefore he likely has nothing to fear from this investigation other than repetitious questions he doesn't want to answer and will likely continue to evade in the same manner as always given that he's already told us all he's ever likely to be willing to tell us on the subject.
For those that don't want to read all this text:

Valverde's already been busted and punished for Puerto, nothing more will effect him

Edited by King Boonen.
 
When those same blood bags were originally released to WADA. Valverde was asked about it and actually more or less answered the question. His first comment was: "Does this mean it's finally over and you'll stop asking me about it?" He was then asked something about if he was worried about anything new coming out. His response was, "I've already served my time for this. There is nothing more they can do to me, plus there's nothing else to learn about me." He is one of the few who has nothing to worry about as he did serve a ban for it and they can't do anything more to him. Plus the statute of limitations have passed anyway, which surprisingly he never even made reference to.
 
Re:

Libertine Seguros said:
In fairness to Valverde, though, he is one of the few that can argue water under the bridge regards Puerto; we know he was involved, whether he pretends he was innocent or not we know that, and like only a few others, he's paid the price. Little new can be gleaned from Valverde as far as Operación Puerto is concerned; he isn't going to volunteer anything he doesn't have to, that much is clear, and what are people expecting, that he's going to be sanctioned? Unlike most of the others in Puerto, Valverde, like Scarponi and Basso, actually has been suspended, so apart from stripping a few of his pre-2006 results (and in that instance, which ones? We know that these cases can involve some selectivity, just look at Menchov being stripped of 65th in the Tour but not 1st in the Giro for example) what can they do to him without falling foul of double jeopardy?

The big thing for it is, hardly anybody can pay at this point in time. Valverde is just about the last person from the investigation left of any relevance. I know Mancebo and Sevilla are still active but they've been personae non grata at the top level for a decade and have in reality suffered far more for their involvement than the guys that got bans. They're also 40+ and only competing in distant, less high profile scenes whereas obviously Ally Vally is about as prominent as a rider can get, wearing the rainbow jersey in his sunset like Joop Zoetemelk or something. What are we going to gain from a few post-dated suspensions for the likes of Allan Davis, António Colóm and co.? It's meandered for so long and so many of the actants from a cycling point of view are already well known about, that it's almost faded from relevance at this stage; the known Puerto riders' careers will always have that slight cloud to them. And while there may be something at stake for those who have some of the unknown bags, or knowing definitively who some of the "probably that person but not certainly" bags are, Alejandro Valverde is not one of those people. He's been DNA-matched to a bag, he's been linked definitively to Puerto and he is forever indelibly tainted by it already. Therefore he likely has nothing to fear from this investigation other than repetitious questions he doesn't want to answer and will likely continue to evade in the same manner as always given that he's already told us all he's ever likely to be willing to tell us on the subject.
Most relevant names are probably the non-cyclists that were rumored. Nadal, the Spanish football team, etc
 
Re: Re:

Parker said:
Libertine Seguros said:
In fairness to Valverde, though, he is one of the few that can argue water under the bridge regards Puerto; we know he was involved, whether he pretends he was innocent or not we know that, and like only a few others, he's paid the price. Little new can be gleaned from Valverde as far as Operación Puerto is concerned; he isn't going to volunteer anything he doesn't have to, that much is clear, and what are people expecting, that he's going to be sanctioned? Unlike most of the others in Puerto, Valverde, like Scarponi and Basso, actually has been suspended, so apart from stripping a few of his pre-2006 results (and in that instance, which ones? We know that these cases can involve some selectivity, just look at Menchov being stripped of 65th in the Tour but not 1st in the Giro for example) what can they do to him without falling foul of double jeopardy?

The big thing for it is, hardly anybody can pay at this point in time. Valverde is just about the last person from the investigation left of any relevance. I know Mancebo and Sevilla are still active but they've been personae non grata at the top level for a decade and have in reality suffered far more for their involvement than the guys that got bans. They're also 40+ and only competing in distant, less high profile scenes whereas obviously Ally Vally is about as prominent as a rider can get, wearing the rainbow jersey in his sunset like Joop Zoetemelk or something. What are we going to gain from a few post-dated suspensions for the likes of Allan Davis, António Colóm and co.? It's meandered for so long and so many of the actants from a cycling point of view are already well known about, that it's almost faded from relevance at this stage; the known Puerto riders' careers will always have that slight cloud to them. And while there may be something at stake for those who have some of the unknown bags, or knowing definitively who some of the "probably that person but not certainly" bags are, Alejandro Valverde is not one of those people. He's been DNA-matched to a bag, he's been linked definitively to Puerto and he is forever indelibly tainted by it already. Therefore he likely has nothing to fear from this investigation other than repetitious questions he doesn't want to answer and will likely continue to evade in the same manner as always given that he's already told us all he's ever likely to be willing to tell us on the subject.
For those that don't want to read all this text:

Valverde's already been busted and punished for Puerto, nothing more will effect him

It’s not the destination it’s the journey
 
Re: Re:

Red Rick said:
Libertine Seguros said:
In fairness to Valverde, though, he is one of the few that can argue water under the bridge regards Puerto; we know he was involved, whether he pretends he was innocent or not we know that, and like only a few others, he's paid the price. Little new can be gleaned from Valverde as far as Operación Puerto is concerned; he isn't going to volunteer anything he doesn't have to, that much is clear, and what are people expecting, that he's going to be sanctioned? Unlike most of the others in Puerto, Valverde, like Scarponi and Basso, actually has been suspended, so apart from stripping a few of his pre-2006 results (and in that instance, which ones? We know that these cases can involve some selectivity, just look at Menchov being stripped of 65th in the Tour but not 1st in the Giro for example) what can they do to him without falling foul of double jeopardy?

The big thing for it is, hardly anybody can pay at this point in time. Valverde is just about the last person from the investigation left of any relevance. I know Mancebo and Sevilla are still active but they've been personae non grata at the top level for a decade and have in reality suffered far more for their involvement than the guys that got bans. They're also 40+ and only competing in distant, less high profile scenes whereas obviously Ally Vally is about as prominent as a rider can get, wearing the rainbow jersey in his sunset like Joop Zoetemelk or something. What are we going to gain from a few post-dated suspensions for the likes of Allan Davis, António Colóm and co.? It's meandered for so long and so many of the actants from a cycling point of view are already well known about, that it's almost faded from relevance at this stage; the known Puerto riders' careers will always have that slight cloud to them. And while there may be something at stake for those who have some of the unknown bags, or knowing definitively who some of the "probably that person but not certainly" bags are, Alejandro Valverde is not one of those people. He's been DNA-matched to a bag, he's been linked definitively to Puerto and he is forever indelibly tainted by it already. Therefore he likely has nothing to fear from this investigation other than repetitious questions he doesn't want to answer and will likely continue to evade in the same manner as always given that he's already told us all he's ever likely to be willing to tell us on the subject.
Most relevant names are probably the non-cyclists that were rumored. Nadal, the Spanish football team, etc

Aye that’s the bigger story than the cyclist that have already been busted, interesting times
 
Of course, and that's the largest part of why it's been treated like it has. If it had just been cyclists and distance runners it'd have been done with long ago. From a cycling perspective there's little to gain at this stage. Everybody's either retired or faded into irrelevance bar the one guy who's already long done with his punishment.
 
May 26, 2010
19,530
0
0
Re:

Koronin said:
When those same blood bags were originally released to WADA. Valverde was asked about it and actually more or less answered the question. His first comment was: "Does this mean it's finally over and you'll stop asking me about it?" He was then asked something about if he was worried about anything new coming out. His response was, "I've already served my time for this. There is nothing more they can do to me, plus there's nothing else to learn about me." He is one of the few who has nothing to worry about as he did serve a ban for it and they can't do anything more to him. Plus the statute of limitations have passed anyway, which surprisingly he never even made reference to.
We know he had blood bags in a fridge with Fuentes. Did he only use epo? Nope so there is a lot to learn about Valverde, but we will probably not get it from CONI this time.
 
Re: Re:

Benotti69 said:
Koronin said:
When those same blood bags were originally released to WADA. Valverde was asked about it and actually more or less answered the question. His first comment was: "Does this mean it's finally over and you'll stop asking me about it?" He was then asked something about if he was worried about anything new coming out. His response was, "I've already served my time for this. There is nothing more they can do to me, plus there's nothing else to learn about me." He is one of the few who has nothing to worry about as he did serve a ban for it and they can't do anything more to him. Plus the statute of limitations have passed anyway, which surprisingly he never even made reference to.
We know he had blood bags in a fridge with Fuentes. Did he only use epo? Nope so there is a lot to learn about Valverde, but we will probably not get it from CONI this time.
Those were his comments when asked. Also those comments are about the most he's actually ever said about it. When I read it, I was shocked he actually answered the questions in the first place.
 
Jul 13, 2016
792
0
0
Re: Re:

Red Rick said:
Libertine Seguros said:
In fairness to Valverde, though, he is one of the few that can argue water under the bridge regards Puerto; we know he was involved, whether he pretends he was innocent or not we know that, and like only a few others, he's paid the price. Little new can be gleaned from Valverde as far as Operación Puerto is concerned; he isn't going to volunteer anything he doesn't have to, that much is clear, and what are people expecting, that he's going to be sanctioned? Unlike most of the others in Puerto, Valverde, like Scarponi and Basso, actually has been suspended, so apart from stripping a few of his pre-2006 results (and in that instance, which ones? We know that these cases can involve some selectivity, just look at Menchov being stripped of 65th in the Tour but not 1st in the Giro for example) what can they do to him without falling foul of double jeopardy?

The big thing for it is, hardly anybody can pay at this point in time. Valverde is just about the last person from the investigation left of any relevance. I know Mancebo and Sevilla are still active but they've been personae non grata at the top level for a decade and have in reality suffered far more for their involvement than the guys that got bans. They're also 40+ and only competing in distant, less high profile scenes whereas obviously Ally Vally is about as prominent as a rider can get, wearing the rainbow jersey in his sunset like Joop Zoetemelk or something. What are we going to gain from a few post-dated suspensions for the likes of Allan Davis, António Colóm and co.? It's meandered for so long and so many of the actants from a cycling point of view are already well known about, that it's almost faded from relevance at this stage; the known Puerto riders' careers will always have that slight cloud to them. And while there may be something at stake for those who have some of the unknown bags, or knowing definitively who some of the "probably that person but not certainly" bags are, Alejandro Valverde is not one of those people. He's been DNA-matched to a bag, he's been linked definitively to Puerto and he is forever indelibly tainted by it already. Therefore he likely has nothing to fear from this investigation other than repetitious questions he doesn't want to answer and will likely continue to evade in the same manner as always given that he's already told us all he's ever likely to be willing to tell us on the subject.
Most relevant names are probably the non-cyclists that were rumored. Nadal, the Spanish football team, etc
With the lack of controls in football, blood bags were probably not needed. Don't think football players are connected to the bags.
 
May 26, 2010
19,530
0
0
Re: Re:

Bardamu said:
Red Rick said:
Libertine Seguros said:
In fairness to Valverde, though, he is one of the few that can argue water under the bridge regards Puerto; we know he was involved, whether he pretends he was innocent or not we know that, and like only a few others, he's paid the price. Little new can be gleaned from Valverde as far as Operación Puerto is concerned; he isn't going to volunteer anything he doesn't have to, that much is clear, and what are people expecting, that he's going to be sanctioned? Unlike most of the others in Puerto, Valverde, like Scarponi and Basso, actually has been suspended, so apart from stripping a few of his pre-2006 results (and in that instance, which ones? We know that these cases can involve some selectivity, just look at Menchov being stripped of 65th in the Tour but not 1st in the Giro for example) what can they do to him without falling foul of double jeopardy?

The big thing for it is, hardly anybody can pay at this point in time. Valverde is just about the last person from the investigation left of any relevance. I know Mancebo and Sevilla are still active but they've been personae non grata at the top level for a decade and have in reality suffered far more for their involvement than the guys that got bans. They're also 40+ and only competing in distant, less high profile scenes whereas obviously Ally Vally is about as prominent as a rider can get, wearing the rainbow jersey in his sunset like Joop Zoetemelk or something. What are we going to gain from a few post-dated suspensions for the likes of Allan Davis, António Colóm and co.? It's meandered for so long and so many of the actants from a cycling point of view are already well known about, that it's almost faded from relevance at this stage; the known Puerto riders' careers will always have that slight cloud to them. And while there may be something at stake for those who have some of the unknown bags, or knowing definitively who some of the "probably that person but not certainly" bags are, Alejandro Valverde is not one of those people. He's been DNA-matched to a bag, he's been linked definitively to Puerto and he is forever indelibly tainted by it already. Therefore he likely has nothing to fear from this investigation other than repetitious questions he doesn't want to answer and will likely continue to evade in the same manner as always given that he's already told us all he's ever likely to be willing to tell us on the subject.
Most relevant names are probably the non-cyclists that were rumored. Nadal, the Spanish football team, etc
With the lack of controls in football, blood bags were probably not needed. Don't think football players are connected to the bags.
Footballers were seen at Fuentes clinic. Blood bags/EPO is very good for recuperation. Juventus players were known to use intravenous techniques at half time in the 90s when EPO was the PED of choice.
 
Mar 6, 2011
1,414
0
0
Re:

DanielSong39 said:
Well he lost by a mile today, you can relax now.
I'm not so sure I think he would most likely pop a positive if tested today. Only after the WC it would be for Champagne and Cake.
 
Literally insane that he's saying stuff like this: "It's you guys [journalists], first and foremost, who give weight to it. Anyone is free to write what they want, but, in giving it weight, you're playing along with that game."

The journalists give weight to him being a convicted doper? lol... He's going to be yelling FAKE NEWS in the next interview.

My opinion of him has somehow only gone down since he won the Worlds.
 
Valverde says "sois vosotros, que le dais trascendencia", which means "give weight" as in "attach importance", not "attach legitimacy" or "make more credible". He's saying it shouldn't matter, not implying that it didn't happen. The nuance is subtle in English but much more explicit in Spanish.
 
Re:

luckyboy said:
Literally insane that he's saying stuff like this: "It's you guys [journalists], first and foremost, who give weight to it. Anyone is free to write what they want, but, in giving it weight, you're playing along with that game."

The journalists give weight to him being a convicted doper? lol... He's going to be yelling FAKE NEWS in the next interview.

My opinion of him has somehow only gone down since he won the Worlds.
FAKE NEWS is what Cyclingnews is doing all the time concerning Valverde, the true has gone, anyone barely remembers the case, when, how, why, but the only fact CN repeats as a mantra is usually: "Valverde was banned in 2010 after his DNA was matched to one of the blood bag seized in a raid on the premises of disgraced Spanish doctor Eufamiano Fuentes." Bla, bla, bla. Just repeating all over again this mantra the true is never more clear, but people is convinced that since he was banned for two years he was a cheater, and since he doesnt show remorse or prefers to scape the questionning, he continues being a cheater. What an idea of justice people have!!!! (including CN). Hypocrites!
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS