Official Valverde thread.

[thrawn]

Not a snowflakes chance in hell.

I'm sorry that you don't believe in miracles.

 

[The Hitch]

Yet you're looking at 10, not 50 or 500. My point is your argument is bunk, though your conclusion is correct (that Valverde is doping).

A sample of 10 is still bigger than a sample of 2 which is what you were trying to pass it off as.

Besides, what is my argument ?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Yep, i heard it mentioned in February that Valverde was thinner than ever.

I know what went through my head when I heard that.

Maybe they were referring to his hair, after yet another bout of plugs.

I'm not sure whether he's clean or not, but even if I was certain he was now, a Valverde win still leaves me feeling empty, might be down his pick-pocket riding style, or the fact he's never been repentant.

I think it's very unfair on 2014 Valverde to talk of the pick-pocket riding style. He's won two one-day races from long distance (Roma Maxima from a two up sprint, GP Big Mig solo), and acquitted himself reasonably well in races he really has little business participating in (Strade Bianche, E3).

Sure, he's never been repentant, but I don't really understand why the whole world is so much more up in arms about a Valverde success than about other riders with equally chequered histories. He just seems to have something that rubs people up the wrong way, but I can't quite put my finger on what it is. Riccò and di Luca had it too, but with them it was more obvious why people took against them (I disliked both before they tested positive).

 

[Netserk]

How can one hate Di Luca

 

[JimmyFingers]

Maybe they were referring to his hair, after yet another bout of plugs.

I think it's very unfair on 2014 Valverde to talk of the pick-pocket riding style. He's won two one-day races from long distance (Roma Maxima from a two up sprint, GP Big Mig solo), and acquitted himself reasonably well in races he really has little business participating in (Strade Bianche, E3).

Sure, he's never been repentant, but I don't really understand why the whole world is so much more up in arms about a Valverde success than about other riders with equally chequered histories. He just seems to have something that rubs people up the wrong way, but I can't quite put my finger on what it is. Riccò and di Luca had it too, but with them it was more obvious why people took against them (I disliked both before they tested positive).

As I said, I felt empty, saw him attack and smash Dan Martin by how many lengths? It was a lot, but I was just cold to it, unmoved either way. If h has changed his ways in the way he races, all power to him. I just can't warm to him whatever.

 

[Panda Claws]

A sample of 10 is still bigger than a sample of 2 which is what you were trying to pass it off as.

Besides, what is my argument ?

That the big sample of climbing times we have 'gets rid' of outside factors?

 

[Nathan12]

I'm not sure whether he's clean or not, but even if I was certain he was now, a Valverde win still leaves me feeling empty, might be down his pick-pocket riding style, or the fact he's never been repentant.

Repentance in pro cycling leaves me just as cold. See Millar, David, Barry, Michael and Hesjedal, Ryder.

 

[Netserk]

Repentance in pro cycling leaves me just as cold. See Millar, David, Barry, Michael and Hesjedal, Ryder.

I'd rather have someone honestly say they don't repent (Like Landis and Rasmussen) than some fake insincere 'repentance' (the three you named plus numerous others).

 

[roundabout]

It's not so much "repentance", whatever that is in the context of cycling, but rather the simple inability to admit that he was caught bang to rights

 

[RownhamHill]

He is. I noticed that already back in Feb (iirc), he is much skinnier this year than before, even at the start of the season.

He's on the Sky diet.

This exactly. So what is the Sky diet? (A rhetorical question.) Certainly it looks like whatever comparative advantage Sky have enjoyed over the last couple of seasons seems to be dissipating - whether that's a triumph of a doping arms race or the triumph of nutritional sports science I won't speculate on.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Yep, i heard it mentioned in February that Valverde was thinner than ever.

I know what went through my head when I heard that.

This ?

Other teams are looking at how we train and that's good for cycling as a whole as it shows evolution

 

[TourOfSardinia]

This exactly. So what is the Sky diet? (A rhetorical question.)

No Nutella zone, apparently.

 

[ralphbert]

How can one hate Di Luca

The same way you can hate excellence and love cancer?

 

[ralphbert]

Valv kinda oozes arrogance that some find distasteful, but when you have won everything from such a young age it must seem normal and expected to win. Contidor must really get up his nose.

I think a rider who comes back who don't apologise for doping are more genuine than those who trot out who they did it once, are sorry, won't do it again. Blah blah blah. When you know everybody does it and you have to do it to compete it seems best just to say nothing. I saw an interview with conti was asked about doping where he just said you just have to make up your own mind. That is class imo. Or the vino method, when uncomfortable questions are asked they are answered with a stony stare, and you know if you ask again you are waking up next to a horses head.

 

[del1962]

Valv kinda oozes arrogance that some find distasteful, but when you have won everything from such a young age it must seem normal and expected to win. Contidor must really get up his nose.

I think a rider who comes back who don't apologise for doping are more genuine than those who trot out who they did it once, are sorry, won't do it again. Blah blah blah. When you know everybody does it and you have to do it to compete it seems best just to say nothing. I saw an interview with conti was asked about doping where he just said you just have to make up your own mind. That is class imo. Or the vino method, when uncomfortable questions are asked they are answered with a stony stare, and you know if you ask again you are waking up next to a horses head.

Maybe class to other dopers, but a kick in the teeth to those who aren't doping. Basically telling those who are trying to compete clean to get lost, this imo is the very opposite of classy

 

[happychappy]

Contidor must really get up his nose.

Could you imagine them on the same team?

 

[GuyIncognito]

Could you imagine them on the same team?

Considering Valverde has spent the past 5 years talking like a giddy schoolgirl about how awesome it would be to be Contador's domestique, I'm pretty sure it's his cycling dream at this point
You should see his interview reacting to Contador signing for Saxo (2012) when Movistar wanted him. To say Valverde was annoyed would be an understatement

 

[TailWindHome]

"At some point in time, people have to accept that performances are going to move forward. If we always hold back, and say, here is some data from people who were doping, then if we draw a line, we can then deduce that anyone crossing that line must also be doping. Well, that’s false. They do not have to be doping, because the whole human race moves forward. At some point in time, clean performances will surpass the doped performances in the past."--David Brailsford.

Do you guys consider Dan Martin to be clean?

He finished 3 seconds back - so assuming this means he was 3 seconds slower up the climb that means he has tied Gilbert's 2011 time and beaten every other time ever.

(2004-2014, peloton all together at bottom of Mur de Huy)

2004 | Davide Rebellin ---- ITA | 2:47
2005 | Danilo Di Luca ----- ITA | 3:01
2006 | Alejandro Valverde - ESP | 2:52
2007 | Davide Rebellin ---- ITA | 2:45
2008 | Kim Kirchen -------- LUX | 3:02
2009 | Davide Rebellin ---- ITA | 2:46
2010 | Cadel Evans -------- AUS | 2:46
2011 | Philippe Gilbert --- BEL | 2:44
2012 | Joaquim Rodriguez -- ESP | 2:59
2013 | Daniel Moreno ------ ESP | 2:49
2014 | Alejandro Valverde - ESP | 2:41

 

[TailWindHome]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtOd_6r-8rI&feature=player_embedded#t=534

 

[ralphbert]

Maybe class to other dopers, but a kick in the teeth to those who aren't doping. Basically telling those who are trying to compete clean to get lost, this imo is the very opposite of classy

Yes, that has an element of truth but once you have given up and recognised the rules of the game you are caught in a moral trap. The issue isn't the players it's the system above all that is sick.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtOd_6r-8rI&feature=player_embedded#t=534

Thanks for the link.

Watching that, despite the record being broken, I get the feeling there were tactics going on for most of the climb, surging and recovering slightly again.

 

[Benotti69]

Do you guys consider Dan Martin to be clean?

He finished 3 seconds back - so assuming this means he was 3 seconds slower up the climb that means he has tied Gilbert's 2011 time and beaten every other time ever.

(2004-2014, peloton all together at bottom of Mur de Huy)

2004 | Davide Rebellin ---- ITA | 2:47
2005 | Danilo Di Luca ----- ITA | 3:01
2006 | Alejandro Valverde - ESP | 2:52
2007 | Davide Rebellin ---- ITA | 2:45
2008 | Kim Kirchen -------- LUX | 3:02
2009 | Davide Rebellin ---- ITA | 2:46
2010 | Cadel Evans -------- AUS | 2:46
2011 | Philippe Gilbert --- BEL | 2:44
2012 | Joaquim Rodriguez -- ESP | 2:59
2013 | Daniel Moreno ------ ESP | 2:49
2014 | Alejandro Valverde - ESP | 2:41

There is a Dan Martin thread.

 

[TailWindHome]

There is a Dan Martin thread.

I'm sure there is.

But it wouldn't offer any context to the evidence against Valverde or the Brailsford quote stuck way over there now.

 

[the sceptic]

I'm sure there is.

But it wouldn't offer any context to the evidence against Valverde or the Brailsford quote stuck way over there now.

Dan Martin beating dopers on a 1 km climb is less suspicious than Chris Badzilla beating Armstrong on MTFs in the tour.

 

[The Hitch]

Maybe class to other dopers, but a kick in the teeth to those who aren't doping. Basically telling those who are trying to compete clean to get lost, this imo is the very opposite of classy

But according to you doping doesn't really matter. Dopers won some things, but those who choose not to dope end up winning the tour by light years and having the greatest season since Merckx.