Official Valverde thread.

[KyoGrey]

Its a combination of superb talent, good medical program and team with good connections in the sport.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Its a combination of superb talent, good medical program and team with good connections in the sport.

I think his dedication is under-rated as well. By all accounts he is extremely committed to his training and pretty obsessive about his diet. He doesn't balloon in the off-season, he doesn't get drunk. He rides his bike every day; legend has it that he does 1000 sit ups a day as well. In a peloton where all the GC contenders are doping and talented to some extent; that kind of commitment can still be enough to give you an edge on the pack.

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

Re:

7 of the last 12 winners didn't win the Tour...

19 of the 25 winners won either the Tour or the Worlds though, with exceptions including Jalabert, Gilbert and Contador in their absolute best seasons. Valverde never has enough high profile wins in a single season for a Velo d'Or.

 

[Red Rick]

Somehow somebody always has a better season, though almost everytime it's a different guy.

 

[Mr.White]

Re:

So why didn't he win Velo d'Or any year? He only got 2nd once, in 2006...

So Velo d'Or is some kind of yardstick? And who gives this award, some magazine Give me a break! Just look at the 2015 top 3 there! No Valverde, no Kristoff, no Degenkolb! Aru and Sagan

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

So why didn't he win Velo d'Or any year? He only got 2nd once, in 2006...

So Velo d'Or is some kind of yardstick? And who gives this award, some magazine Give me a break! Just look at the 2015 top 3 there! No Valverde, no Kristoff, no Degenkolb! Aru and Sagan

Because Sagan and Aru had better seasons than Valverde and Degenkolb, it's not rocket science.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

So why didn't he win Velo d'Or any year? He only got 2nd once, in 2006...

So Velo d'Or is some kind of yardstick? And who gives this award, some magazine Give me a break! Just look at the 2015 top 3 there! No Valverde, no Kristoff, no Degenkolb! Aru and Sagan

Because Sagan and Aru had better seasons than Valverde and Degenkolb, it's not rocket science.

Well to you it certainly is

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Somehow somebody always has a better season, though almost everytime it's a different guy.

This is so right.

 

[Dan2016]

Re: Re:

Somehow somebody always has a better season, though almost everytime it's a different guy.

This is so right.

This is so wrong.


(just kidding)

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

I hope Sagan rides as well (and Greg too). Imagine those four getting away on Keutenberg.

Yeah, cobbled classic specialists need to race AGR as well, to show those hilly losers who's boss. :lol:

GVA was strong there in 2015. So I hope he doesn't win Roubaix because that increases his chances of riding there.

Yeah, I remember this cobbled giants race this ****** hilly races, and of course they couldn't do nothing. I would like to see them again, to have a good laugh :lol: In fact, former very successful hilly rider who can't contest this races anymore at the highest level, went to this cobbled races and trashed all this cobbled specialists. I just can't wait...

Not sure what you're talking about, most cobbled classic specialists have never bothered with this race.

I do remember Edvald Boasson Hagen trashing Valverde in the sprint for second at the World Championships in Valkenburg. Degenkolb was fourth, Lars Boom fifth, Allan Davis sixth, Boonen 12th.

Boonen never started in the Amstel Gold Race, he did get his yellow jersey on a stage finishing in Valkenburg that featured the Cauberg in the finale. Cancellara only entered AGR twice, once in 2004 and once in 2011 (where he crashed in the finale). Kristoff and Degenkolb both only entered it once when they were still very young. GVA has entered it numerous times, but always in function of Philippe Gilbert. His best result is a fifth place in 2015 (where he was very aggressive in the finale and could have won had he not rode for Gilbert).

Valverde really is very lucky that he's the only guy with a sprint that targets these hilly races. That's what makes the cobbled classics much more interesting. There are loads of guys with a fast sprint: Peter Sagan, Tom Boonen, John Degenkolb, Alexander Kristoff, etc.

AGR will be interesting this year.

Are you forgetting Gerrans and Alaphillipe?

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

I hope Sagan rides as well (and Greg too). Imagine those four getting away on Keutenberg.

Yeah, cobbled classic specialists need to race AGR as well, to show those hilly losers who's boss. :lol:

GVA was strong there in 2015. So I hope he doesn't win Roubaix because that increases his chances of riding there.

Yeah, I remember this cobbled giants race this ****** hilly races, and of course they couldn't do nothing. I would like to see them again, to have a good laugh :lol: In fact, former very successful hilly rider who can't contest this races anymore at the highest level, went to this cobbled races and trashed all this cobbled specialists. I just can't wait...

Not sure what you're talking about, most cobbled classic specialists have never bothered with this race.

I do remember Edvald Boasson Hagen trashing Valverde in the sprint for second at the World Championships in Valkenburg. Degenkolb was fourth, Lars Boom fifth, Allan Davis sixth, Boonen 12th.

Boonen never started in the Amstel Gold Race, he did get his yellow jersey on a stage finishing in Valkenburg that featured the Cauberg in the finale. Cancellara only entered AGR twice, once in 2004 and once in 2011 (where he crashed in the finale). Kristoff and Degenkolb both only entered it once when they were still very young. GVA has entered it numerous times, but always in function of Philippe Gilbert. His best result is a fifth place in 2015 (where he was very aggressive in the finale and could have won had he not rode for Gilbert).

Valverde really is very lucky that he's the only guy with a sprint that targets these hilly races. That's what makes the cobbled classics much more interesting. There are loads of guys with a fast sprint: Peter Sagan, Tom Boonen, John Degenkolb, Alexander Kristoff, etc.

AGR will be interesting this year.

Are you forgetting Gerrans and Alaphillipe?

Past his prime and what has Alaphilippe won again?

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

I hope Sagan rides as well (and Greg too). Imagine those four getting away on Keutenberg.

Yeah, cobbled classic specialists need to race AGR as well, to show those hilly losers who's boss. :lol:

GVA was strong there in 2015. So I hope he doesn't win Roubaix because that increases his chances of riding there.

Yeah, I remember this cobbled giants race this ****** hilly races, and of course they couldn't do nothing. I would like to see them again, to have a good laugh :lol: In fact, former very successful hilly rider who can't contest this races anymore at the highest level, went to this cobbled races and trashed all this cobbled specialists. I just can't wait...

Not sure what you're talking about, most cobbled classic specialists have never bothered with this race.

I do remember Edvald Boasson Hagen trashing Valverde in the sprint for second at the World Championships in Valkenburg. Degenkolb was fourth, Lars Boom fifth, Allan Davis sixth, Boonen 12th.

Boonen never started in the Amstel Gold Race, he did get his yellow jersey on a stage finishing in Valkenburg that featured the Cauberg in the finale. Cancellara only entered AGR twice, once in 2004 and once in 2011 (where he crashed in the finale). Kristoff and Degenkolb both only entered it once when they were still very young. GVA has entered it numerous times, but always in function of Philippe Gilbert. His best result is a fifth place in 2015 (where he was very aggressive in the finale and could have won had he not rode for Gilbert).

Valverde really is very lucky that he's the only guy with a sprint that targets these hilly races. That's what makes the cobbled classics much more interesting. There are loads of guys with a fast sprint: Peter Sagan, Tom Boonen, John Degenkolb, Alexander Kristoff, etc.

AGR will be interesting this year.

It's not luck, it's a gift

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

For almost ten years Boonen was the only one with a sprint who ever mattered in cobbled classics while the hilly ones had the likes of Di Luca, Kirchen, Rebellin, Bettini, Wegmann, Schumacher, Gilbert, Gasparotto, Cunego, Gerrans and more recently Kwiatkowski who are all closely matched in terms of sprinting.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

For almost ten years Boonen was the only one with a sprint who ever mattered in cobbled classics while the hilly ones had the likes of Di Luca, Kirchen, Rebellin, Bettini, Wegmann, Schumacher, Gilbert, Gasparotto, Cunego, Gerrans and more recently Kwiatkowski who are all closely matched in terms of sprinting.

Gilbert won Omloop het Volk twice, Driedaagse van de Panne once and won the Ronde van Vlaanderen (+ two third places). All of those wins were after long solos. He was also second in Dwars door Vlaanderen (strongest in the race, his team-mate won) and E3 Harelbeke (lost the sprint against Van Avermaet). Third in Gent-Wevelgem, losing the sprint against Eisel and Vanmarcke.

To conclude: Gilbert is just as much a guy for the cobbled classics as for the hilly classics. He just wasn't allowed to ride them in 2013-2016 because BMC is a crappy team. And Gilbert is a mediocre sprinter when put against the cobbled classic specialists. So no, Boonen wasn't the only one with a sprint that mattered in the cobbled classics. And that's ignoring the fact that Boonen soloed to victory in the Ronde van Vlaanderen (2005) and Paris-Roubaix (2009 & 2012). Erik Zabel could have definitely beaten Boonen in a sprint during the Ronde van Vlaanderen 2005. That's why Boonen attacked and won solo. Peter van Petegem also wasn't slow after a hard, long race. He has beaten the likes of Johan Museeuw and Frank Vandenbroucke in sprints during the Ronde van Vlaanderen. And he also beat Bettini during the World Championships in 2003. Lastly, you also forgot about Thor Hushovd, who had a very dangerous sprint. He could have won Roubaix in a sprint against Boonen in 2009 had he not crashed in the finale.

Pozzato also beat Boonen in a sprint at E3 Harelbeke in 2009. Gilbert beat him in a sprint at Paris-Tours in 2009. Vanmarcke beat Boonen in a sprint at the Omloop het Nieuwsblad in 2012. Cancellara nearly beat him in a sprint at E3 Harelbeke in 2007.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

For almost ten years Boonen was the only one with a sprint who ever mattered in cobbled classics while the hilly ones had the likes of Di Luca, Kirchen, Rebellin, Bettini, Wegmann, Schumacher, Gilbert, Gasparotto, Cunego, Gerrans and more recently Kwiatkowski who are all closely matched in terms of sprinting.

Gilbert won Omloop het Volk twice, Driedaagse van de Panne once and won the Ronde van Vlaanderen (+ two third places). All of those wins were after long solos. He was also second in Dwars door Vlaanderen (strongest in the race, his team-mate won) and E3 Harelbeke (lost the sprint against Van Avermaet). Third in Gent-Wevelgem, losing the sprint against Eisel and Vanmarcke.

To conclude: Gilbert is just as much a guy for the cobbled classics as for the hilly classics. He just wasn't allowed to ride them in 2013-2016 because BMC is a crappy team. And Gilbert is a mediocre sprinter when put against the cobbled classic specialists. So no, Boonen wasn't the only one with a sprint that mattered in the cobbled classics. And that's ignoring the fact that Boonen soloed to victory in the Ronde van Vlaanderen (2005) and Paris-Roubaix (2009 & 2012). Erik Zabel could have definitely beaten Boonen in a sprint during the Ronde van Vlaanderen 2005. That's why Boonen attacked and won solo. Peter van Petegem also wasn't slow after a hard, long race. He has beaten the likes of Johan Museeuw and Frank Vandenbroucke in sprints during the Ronde van Vlaanderen. And he also beat Bettini during the World Championships in 2003. Lastly, you also forgot about Thor Hushovd, who had a very dangerous sprint. He could have won Roubaix in a sprint against Boonen in 2009 had he not crashed in the finale.

Pozzato also beat Boonen in a sprint at E3 Harelbeke in 2009. Gilbert beat him in a sprint at Paris-Tours in 2009. Vanmarcke beat Boonen in a sprint at the Omloop het Nieuwsblad in 2012. Cancellara nearly beat him in a sprint at E3 Harelbeke in 2007.

We don't care.

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

Re: Re:

For almost ten years Boonen was the only one with a sprint who ever mattered in cobbled classics while the hilly ones had the likes of Di Luca, Kirchen, Rebellin, Bettini, Wegmann, Schumacher, Gilbert, Gasparotto, Cunego, Gerrans and more recently Kwiatkowski who are all closely matched in terms of sprinting.

Gilbert won Omloop het Volk twice, Driedaagse van de Panne once and won the Ronde van Vlaanderen (+ two third places). All of those wins were after long solos. He was also second in Dwars door Vlaanderen (strongest in the race, his team-mate won) and E3 Harelbeke (lost the sprint against Van Avermaet). Third in Gent-Wevelgem, losing the sprint against Eisel and Vanmarcke.

To conclude: Gilbert is just as much a guy for the cobbled classics as for the hilly classics. He just wasn't allowed to ride them in 2013-2016 because BMC is a crappy team. And Gilbert is a mediocre sprinter when put against the cobbled classic specialists. So no, Boonen wasn't the only one with a sprint that mattered in the cobbled classics. And that's ignoring the fact that Boonen soloed to victory in the Ronde van Vlaanderen (2005) and Paris-Roubaix (2009 & 2012). Erik Zabel could have definitely beaten Boonen in a sprint during the Ronde van Vlaanderen 2005. That's why Boonen attacked and won solo. Peter van Petegem also wasn't slow after a hard, long race. He has beaten the likes of Johan Museeuw and Frank Vandenbroucke in sprints during the Ronde van Vlaanderen. And he also beat Bettini during the World Championships in 2003. Lastly, you also forgot about Thor Hushovd, who had a very dangerous sprint. He could have won Roubaix in a sprint against Boonen in 2009 had he not crashed in the finale.

Pozzato also beat Boonen in a sprint at E3 Harelbeke in 2009. Gilbert beat him in a sprint at Paris-Tours in 2009. Vanmarcke beat Boonen in a sprint at the Omloop het Nieuwsblad in 2012. Cancellara nearly beat him in a sprint at E3 Harelbeke in 2007.

I don't really get what all of this has to do with my point. You said the cobbled classics are more interesting because there are more guys with a sprint. Valverde is lucky that he's the only one with a sprint in the hilly ones. I argue that over the past two decades, the hilly ones have been much much closer in terms of sprinting quality. Those guys from your post that "weren't slow" are definitely not faster than all the ones I named in the hilly races. Meanwhile, I don't think anyone capable of winning a green jersey (like Boonen, now Sagan, Kristoff, Degenkolb), has ever podiumed a hilly classic since the Amstel route was changed. Freire was the only competitive one and he barely reached a top five. You start off saying Gilbert is a mediocre sprinter in cobbled classics (which he's not, he's just barely ever sprinted for a win). Then at the end you mention Gilbert beating Boonen (and Bozic) in Paris-Tours in a sprint. He finished second to Cavendish in a Tour stage. Gilbert is FAST.

I am well aware that Boonen had some tight sprints. He lost to Hayman last year. That doesn't change the fact that his rivals aren't in the same league as Boonen when it comes to sprinting ability. He definitely had a greater sprinting advantage over his rivals than Valverde has/had over his. Hushovd was competitive in one edition of one race and managed to crash out. Oh, and Zabel got dropped a few times in 2005 (also the only year he mattered), which is why Klier rode for himself instead of working for Zabel.

I really don't get where you're going.

 

[spiritualride]

If the logic is: "Valverde has only been so dominant because he's gotten really lucky with the lack of rivals who can sprint"
if true, it begs the question of why they have raced against Valverde in a way that allows him for so many sprint finishes? Why not break the race up earlier ?

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

If the logic is: "Valverde has only been so dominant because he's gotten really lucky with the lack of rivals who can sprint"
if true, it begs the question of why they have raced against Valverde in a way that allows him for so many sprint finishes? Why not break the race up earlier ?

Pro Cyclists aren't known for their intelligence.

You'll see next Wednesday when the peloton collectively rides to the Mur de Huy for Valverde's "Joyous" Entry.

They're too afraid to risk a guaranteed top ten place for a victory.

Next Sunday they will meet some cyclists who aren't afraid of risking a top ten place for a victory though.

If I was the one making the rules I would only award UCI points to the winners of a race - those points would be allocated to the team, not just the rider in question.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

If the logic is: "Valverde has only been so dominant because he's gotten really lucky with the lack of rivals who can sprint"
if true, it begs the question of why they have raced against Valverde in a way that allows him for so many sprint finishes? Why not break the race up earlier ?

Pro Cyclists aren't known for their intelligence.

You'll see next Wednesday when the peloton collectively rides to the Mur de Huy for Valverde's "Joyous" Entry.

They're too afraid to risk a guaranteed top ten place for a victory.

Next Sunday they will meet some cyclists who aren't afraid of risking a top ten place for a victory though.

If I was the one making the rules I would only award UCI points to the winners of a race - those points would be allocated to the team, not just the rider in question.

Oh my God! :lol:

 

[58teeth]

GOODNESS LAWD THAT FINISH

 

[burning]

It is hilarious that 4 of his 5 wins in FW came after the ban

 

[therealthing]

When will it end?

 

[saganftw]

Re:

When will it end?

he will pull Jagr and ride until 45

 

[Rollthedice]

Re:

When will it end?

Still has good five years until he'll reach Horner maturity to win another GT.

 

[BYOP88]

Got to get the complete set of GT and a few classics still missing from the palmares, then it's a victory ride into the sunset.