Teams & Riders Official Wout Van Aert thread

[Panda Claws]

He's just a better cross rider than him, IMO. Not so much a mental thing though - beaten him plenty of times over the years in both disciplines.

I like Wout Van Aert but if you look at road races worth their salt that one of them actually won and where there was a real battle between them (I don't count TT's for example where Van der Poel finished 20th) then you get the following result:

• Tirreno-Adriatico 2021, Stage 5 - Van der Poel wins with a monster solo that Van Aert simply couldn't catch up too (gets dropped by Pogacar)
• Tirreno-Adriatico 2021, Stage 3 - Van der Poel outright beats Van Aert to the finish line
• Strade Bianchi 2021 - Van der Poel goes solo and Van Aert obviously did not have the legs to follow
• Ronde van Vlaanderen 2020 - Van der Poel outsprints Van Aert (this one still hurts)
• Milano-Sanremo 2020 - Van Aert wins, no clue what Van der Poel was trying to do

You can also count a race like Paris-Roubaix 2022 in Van der Poel's favor because he actually made the front group.

I don't think WvA is any worse (definitely more versatile) but he's had a difficult time at actually beating VdP in outright confrontations.

 

[Extinction]

He's just a better cross rider than him, IMO. Not so much a mental thing though - beaten him plenty of times over the years in both disciplines.

Yea, but WvA dominated him till the race that counts. And that is game on, so you have to produce. At any rate, on the road in certain races, like TTs and mountains, Wout is on another level. But, hey, the world is beautiful, because varried. Still, and this is crucial, when push comes to shove, MvdP demonstrates his class. It's like Wout bows down.

 

[Salvarani]

MVDP is too strong for Van Aert, when there is something great on the line.

Van Aert is still a great rider and may be better suited to the GTs, being as versatile as he is, where he can win many different type of stages. Perhaps, better recovery over multiple days of racing and he is good all around the year. He rarely has a bad race.

However, when MVDP is fresh, in good shape and goes full gas in a big race... Van Aert just cant keep up. It is just evidently clear at this point. He cant beat MVDP when MVDP is at his highest level and focused on the win. MVDP just not as consistent and injuries trouble him from to time.

 

[Red Rick]

MVDP is too strong for Van Aert, when there is something great on the line.

Van Aert is still a great rider and may be better suited to the GTs, being as versatile as he is, where he can win many different type of stages. Perhaps, better recovery over multiple days of racing and he is good all around the year. He rarely has a bad race.

However, when MVDP is fresh, in good shape and goes full gas in a big race... Van Aert just cant keep up. It is just evidently clear at this point. He cant beat MVDP when MVDP is at his highest level and focused on the win. MVDP just not as consistent and injuries trouble him from to time.

It's basically that MvdP is more specialized and they only go against each other in MvdPs strengths. And I don't think the sample size for De Ronde and Paris Roubaix is great.

 

[hayneplane]

It's basically that MvdP is more specialized and they only go against each other in MvdPs strengths. And I don't think the sample size for De Ronde and Paris Roubaix is great.

I agree with this. MVDP has the edge in the areas where both are truly elite but WVA has the broader skillset and greater recovery ability that makes him better in the stage races.

 

[Nick2413]

Confidence without a doubt plays a role. Even when not racing against each other they have the same tendencies in big races. I have a feeling this year will be a gut check for Wout and I hope he comes away with something big.

 

[DaLong]

I don't think WvA is any worse (definitely more versatile) but he's had a difficult time at actually beating VdP in outright confrontations.

Most people have a difficult time at doing that, WvA just happens to be closest.

 

[KenFiamingo]

I like Wout Van Aert but if you look at road races worth their salt that one of them actually won and where there was a real battle between them (I don't count TT's for example where Van der Poel finished 20th) then you get the following result:

• Tirreno-Adriatico 2021, Stage 5 - Van der Poel wins with a monster solo that Van Aert simply couldn't catch up too (gets dropped by Pogacar)
• Tirreno-Adriatico 2021, Stage 3 - Van der Poel outright beats Van Aert to the finish line
• Strade Bianchi 2021 - Van der Poel goes solo and Van Aert obviously did not have the legs to follow
• Ronde van Vlaanderen 2020 - Van der Poel outsprints Van Aert (this one still hurts)
• Milano-Sanremo 2020 - Van Aert wins, no clue what Van der Poel was trying to do

You can also count a race like Paris-Roubaix 2022 in Van der Poel's favor because he actually made the front group.

I don't think WvA is any worse (definitely more versatile) but he's had a difficult time at actually beating VdP in outright confrontations.

This is too easy and very one-sided.
Because WVA owns MVP in TT, you're ignoring it.
Because WVA is literally competitive in every race he enters for over 3 year now (even in races where a rider of his posture shouldn't even be; e.g. the Olympics 2021 or the Worlds 2020), you're ignoring his wins when MVDP was simply not up to par (summer 2020, Tour 2022).

Tirreno 2021 stage 5 is actually a terrible argument in the case you're trying to make. WVA going for the GC and burying himself in stage 4 to Prati di Tivo (9th) while MVDP took a day off (and to be fair, was able to win that stage 5 by the grace of Pogacar).

And it's even more laughable when you rule PR2022 in MVDP's favor while WVA was runner up.

There's no denying MVDP has a higher hit ratio. He has crazy performance spikes and he does have an accelleration which, frankly, i haven't seen on any rider. But he's also in a team that is giving him carte blanche to do whatever he pleases. While WVA also takes on a huge workload for the team during summer (or Paris-Nice 22) during which he still manages to achieve personal success and for which we all admire him. I'd like to see how MVDP would react to doing the same work and the mental load that comes with it (and how it would affect his performance in the big races). To be honest, i don't think he's capable of it. And that is fine because MVDP has been making the perfect choices delivering fantastic wins in the races he loves the most.

IMO the CX Worlds yesterday proves how different they approach things. MVDP willing to take risks (looking at the upside) and thinking out of the box while WVA is someone who prefers a planned & structured approach, minimizing downside. A great play by MVDP and a deserved win but i do hope WVA has finally learned what NOT to do in a 2 man sprint with MVDP.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

Now I look forward to Tirreno. Every day, it will be Mathieu vs Wout vs Girmay.

If you see what Girmay recently did to Kooij, then you can expect that Girmay will be close to MvdP and WvA in Tirreno. That is gonna be epic. Tirreno, and then San Remo!

Uaaah, will they make Alaphilippe hurt. Will they make Alaphilippe hurt!…

 

[Bolder]

MvDP is "more specialized" in the sense that he does best when he's fully committed to a race. Witness his lame performance in GTs last year. He's not going to train to be a superdom for Alpecin's GT hopeful or to win a world's ITT.

But there's little doubt in my mind that he could excel on all terrains, just like Wout. We've seen him do great TTs even without a lot of specialized training, and if a fast-twitch puncheur like Alaf can put in some great mountain performances, surely he can, too.

I've always been more of a MvDP fan because of his panache, but I'm starting to cheer for Wout to win the races I know he's capable of...

 

[Red Rick]

Anyway, I think it's funny these guys destroy the rest in CX when they're peaking in April.

A part of the difference between them could simply be where they're at in the form curve. And maybe MvdP put higher priority on CX WC.

 

[frisenfruitig]

MvDP is "more specialized" in the sense that he does best when he's fully committed to a race. Witness his lame performance in GTs last year. He's not going to train to be a superdom for Alpecin's GT hopeful or to win a world's ITT.

But there's little doubt in my mind that he could excel on all terrains, just like Wout. We've seen him do great TTs even without a lot of specialized training, and if a fast-twitch puncheur like Alaf can put in some great mountain performances, surely he can, too.

I've always been more of a MvDP fan because of his panache, but I'm starting to cheer for Wout to win the races I know he's capable of...

MVDP hasn't shown that he is capable of doing something like winning on Mont Ventoux in the TDF, personally I don't believe he can pull that off. Frankly, the comparison with Alaphilippe doesn't make a lot of sense. Alaphilippe is much more of a Valverde type, he's a climber who is also very explosive whereas MVDP and WVA are much heavier. It just so happens that WVA is somehow also a great climber on longer climbs where he doesn't have any business being that good.

MVDP has the edge when it comes to short explosive bursts which helps a lot in races like RVV, yet he doesn't seem to have the top speed to win bunch sprints like WVA can. WVA has the edge when it comes to longer sustained efforts like TTs or longer climbs and it also seems like he has better recovery abilities in stage races.

That being said, they are very close in pretty much any respect and trying to claim one is better than the other is almost impossible. I think if I were a team manager I would rather have someone like WVA who contributes more to the team throughout the year.

 

[Boes]

A couple of things come to mind when talking MVP vs WVA.

Firstly, the course yesterday just suits MVP better then WVA. WVA excels in a heavy muddy courses with a lot of running, stairs to climb and mud to battle through. Any other course pretty much suits MVP better because he's the goat when it comes to technical sharp turns, explosive short hills and jumping over small objects. No matter how big WVA's engine is, MVP will always be more explosive in short bursts and maintain more speed trough obstacles. If both are 100% WVA will always win in heavy mudfests and MVP will almost always win on any other course. Doesn't stop WVA from trying.

I personally think that MVP is WVA's angstgegner. Any big race, be it RVV or WC CX, usually sees MVP being more of a killer than WVA and especially WVA making the type of mistakes he nevers makes when MVP is not there. It might be a coincidence but I think WVA is more effected by MVP's presence in a race then the other way around.

If MVP is 100% he always seems to beat WVA in classic rides or CX. The main difference between both is that WVA is always there, finishing podium in races from his first CX race in november until the WC in september. While MVP has a tendency to not always be up there both due to injuries (but perhaps also due to mentally less strenght?).

 

[Salvarani]

If MVP is 100% he always seems to beat WVA in classic rides or CX. The main difference between both is that WVA is always there, finishing podium in races from his first CX race in november until the WC in september. While MVP has a tendency to not always be up there both due to injuries (but perhaps also due to mentally less strenght?).

I dont think it is mental strength that is the problem.

More lack of motivation if there is not a prize or an incentive. He is able to push himself to extremes, but it comes at a high price with the injuries he has suffered. Some that has become chronicle issues . If anything it speaks more to that he has mental strength, being able to push himself and win the biggest races. He has a strong will and passion, but maybe he is not the most clever person.

Van Aert is the more complete rider but he cant match MVDP when he goes all out and fully dedicates himself, even to MVDPs own detriment because he pushes himself so hard. The wins has maybe been worth it, but only MVDP can answer that.

 

[frisenfruitig]

Let's hope that he has finally learned the lesson not to allow MVDP to initiate the sprint. He should know by now that if he waits too long and let's MVDP do his kick too close to the finish line he loses. If he hasn't learned that after yesterday I don't think he ever will.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

Anyway, I think it's funny these guys destroy the rest in CX when they're peaking in April.

Exactly… IMHO, Iserbyt is the fourth best CX rider in the world, at the moment.

But it‘s such a big gap between vdP, vA, Pidcock on one side, and Iserbyt on the other.

Have to admire Iserbyt et al. They train all year to be at their peak in winter, and then accept getting dropped by the Big Three year after year.

Venturini btw got 10th yesterday. He‘s always ridden cross, and yesterday showed that a World Tour road pro motor, developed over years, just gives you an advantage. WT racing is just so much more competitive than 2.2 races…

Now I want to see MvdP vs WvA on Val di Sole‘s snow next CX season…

 

[Jagartrott]

Not even Pidcock is at their level. I've heard yesterday that in the 107 CX races where WVA and MVDP both participated, only 4 were won by not one of them. 4/107.

 

[Red Rick]

Exactly… IMHO, Iserbyt is the fourth best CX rider in the world, at the moment.

But it‘s such a big gap between vdP, vA, Pidcock on one side, and Iserbyt on the other.

Have to admire Iserbyt et al. They train all year to be at their peak in winter, and then accept getting dropped by the Big Three year after year.

Venturini btw got 10th yesterday. He‘s always ridden cross, and yesterday showed that a World Tour road pro motor, developed over years, just gives you an advantage. WT racing is just so much more competitive than 2.2 races…

Now I want to see MvdP vs WvA on Val di Sole‘s snow next CX season…

I don't think getting top 10 here shows you have WT road level.

The problem CX has is there is 0 incentive to not focus on road if you have a basis in CX but you have talent for road racing. WvA and MvdP are huge outliers in this regard. They have the technical skills with actuall world class physiology and as such they just never lose a race.

 

[frisenfruitig]

Not even Pidcock is at their level. I've heard yesterday that in the 107 CX races where WVA and MVDP both participated, only 4 were won by not one of them. 4/107.

Yeah, people like to talk about the "big three" in CX but there's only 2. When WVA and MVDP really go at it he just doesn't have the watts to match them. His lighter build suits MTB much better with all the climbing involved.

 

[Berniece]

Now I look forward to Tirreno. Every day, it will be Mathieu vs Wout vs Girmay.

If you see what Girmay recently did to Kooij, then you can expect that Girmay will be close to MvdP and WvA in Tirreno. That is gonna be epic. Tirreno, and then San Remo!

Uaaah, will they make Alaphilippe hurt. Will they make Alaphilippe hurt!…

I don't think Girmay is able to follow these guys when they are this good. At least Girmay never showed that he is able to match such a level, imo.

 

[tobydawq]

Yeah, people like to talk about the "big three" in CX but there's only 2. When WVA and MVDP really go at it he just doesn't have the watts to match them. His lighter build suits MTB much better with all the climbing involved.

Agreed, he was impressively close to them in a couple of races over the Christmas period, though.

 

[Extinction]

Most people have a difficult time at doing that, WvA just happens to be closest.

Wout, except for the obvious coming up shorts at Flanders and Roubaix, is the stronger one on the road.

MvDP is "more specialized" in the sense that he does best when he's fully committed to a race. Witness his lame performance in GTs last year. He's not going to train to be a superdom for Alpecin's GT hopeful or to win a world's ITT.

But there's little doubt in my mind that he could excel on all terrains, just like Wout. We've seen him do great TTs even without a lot of specialized training, and if a fast-twitch puncheur like Alaf can put in some great mountain performances, surely he can, too.

I've always been more of a MvDP fan because of his panache, but I'm starting to cheer for Wout to win the races I know he's capable of...

To the bolded, until otherwise proven, MvdP is unlikely to finish in second on the Tourmalet in a fight with the GC guys. He's too big and doesn't have the body type for that. His shoulders and torso are too broad and thick to climb so well, unlike Alaphilippe and even Wout has a physique structure better adapted to climbing mountains better than MvdP, imho.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Yea, but WvA dominated him till the race that counts. And that is game on, so you have to produce. At any rate, on the road in certain races, like TTs and mountains, Wout is on another level. But, hey, the world is beautiful, because varried. Still, and this is crucial, when push comes to shove, MvdP demonstrates his class. It's like Wout bows down.

I don't really agree. He dominated 2 races that VDP had back issues. VDP also ruined the last lap where he actually had an advantage TWICE, leading to Wva to win after being on the back foot the entire race. I think, apart from the back issue races, they were very equal this season, but Van Aert had the luck on his side a bit more and was more consistent. But I don't agree he dominated VDP up until the worlds. That's largely overrated

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Anyway, I think it's funny these guys destroy the rest in CX when they're peaking in April.

A part of the difference between them could simply be where they're at in the form curve. And maybe MvdP put higher priority on CX WC.

i mean they are clearly both not 100% like in the past and not near their road form anyway. Because they used to clear guys like Iserbyt and VDH by more than a minute. Now it was only 12 seconds. And this happened multiple times this season. They are just so far ahead of the curve they don't need to be top to beat the other cx-ers

 

[theyoungest]

i mean they are clearly both not 100% like in the past and not near their road form anyway. Because they used to clear guys like Iserbyt and VDH by more than a minute. Now it was only 12 seconds. And this happened multiple times this season. They are just so far ahead of the curve they don't need to be top to beat the other cx-ers

This is because they're playing cat and mouse, if they go full gas all race they beat the rest by at least 2 minutes. I don't think Van der Poel is going to get much better than this. As for Van Aert, I'm not sure what went wrong there but this didn't look like his best day this season.