Omega Pharma-Lotto bombshell?

[Tyler'sTwin]

The "expert" professor, doesn't seem to think this would have short term benefits. At least, he didn't seem to believe this would be useful within a couple of weeks. Which also kind of rules out the idea that it would be delivered by him somewhere during the TDF, because it would be a total waste and only a large risk.

Again: to be clear, i don't want to say OLO doesn't dope, or that these meds weren't for pro cycling. I just think, that on many levels, this doesn't make sense (yet).

That's nonsense. Anything that aids muscle recovery is gonna be useful in a GT.

 

[hrotha]

Cause theiare juicing with horse steroids

Don't get ahead of yourself, we know nothing yet. Patience, my young padawan.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Don't get ahead of yourself, we know nothing yet. Patience, my young padawan.

If Omega and Gilbert weren't french or belgium they'd be already kicked.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Don't get ahead of yourself, we know nothing yet. Patience, my young padawan.

They kicked Jan and Basso without evidence in 2006 too
But frenchman and Belgians seem to benifit of a double standard

 

[hrotha]

They kicked Jan and Basso without evidence in 2006 too
But frenchman and Belgians seem to benifit of a double standard

Without evidence? They had a report by the Spanish Guardia Civil that identified them as clients of a doping ring. Completely different situation. Also, that was 5 years ago, when the Tour was run by different people, so there's no double standard.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Without evidence? They had a report by the Spanish Guardia Civil that identified them as clients of a doping ring. Completely different situation. Also, that was 5 years ago, when the Tour was run by different people, so there's no double standard.

5 years later and Ullrich still hasn't been convicted.
On the day they kicked them this was no valid proof at all.

 

[hrotha]

5 years later and Ullrich still hasn't been convicted.
On the day they kicked them this was no valid proof at all.

It was much more solid than what we have right now.
Did you know Festina was actually allowed to start the 1998 Tour?

 

[Race Radio]

5 years later and Ullrich still hasn't been convicted.

Yes, he has. In fact he paid a 100,000+ Euro fine.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Yes, he has. In fact he paid a 100,000+ Euro fine.

That was a civil case and he was not convicted.
He agreed on making a "Vergleich". Which means that investigation stops. This is only done if there's not enough evidence to convict somebody. It has several benifits for both sides.
It saves the jusistiction money and resources.
The defendant is free afterwards and not convicted, plus he safes attorney costs which would have probably exceeded those 100000 Euros. Plus it wasn't a fine but a donation to charity

 

[L'arriviste]

Yes, he has. In fact he paid a 100,000+ Euro fine.

I believe that he paid to have the German fraud investigation closed and this comes with no assumption of guilt. There is still an outstanding Swiss Olympic investigation going through CAS (Swiss Olympic considered that it could not pursue the case but UCI/WADA consider otherwise) but, as the recent CN article pointed out, nobody seems to know what's happening with it.

 

[Duartista]

In any case, BMC and OPL are hardly going to be excluded on current evidence when Lampre and Radioshack are starting despite being involved in ongoing investigations and having far more evidence against them.

 

[Escarabajo]

...

The most likely offenders would seem to be Gibert and Evans. If JVDB is a doper, it would be really pathetic. I enjoy watching the guy ride, but he needs 3 demarages (i don't know the correct English term, sorry) to take 10 meters. If he is doped, that is truly a poor performance. Especially given the nature of the dope they found.

The bolded does not make any sense. Last time I checked JVDB was a contender for the Tour. not?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

The bolded does not make any sense. Last time I checked JVDB was a contender for the Tour. not?

I was just making fun of his punch. Which he has not.

 

[Escarabajo]

I was just making fun of his punch. Which he has not.

Shut!

how did I miss that!

 

[Dr. Maserati]

5 years later and Ullrich still hasn't been convicted.
On the day they kicked them this was no valid proof at all.

Ullrich (&Basso) were not stopped by the Tour (ASO) from riding - Ullrich was withdrawn by his team, the excuse given was that he had signed a contract saying he had no connection with Fuentes.

When the OP list of names came out before that Tour T-Mobile pulled him and CSC were forced to do the same with Basso.

 

[L'arriviste]

Well-known doping expert Jean-Pierre de Mondenard was wheeled in again to discuss the Vansevenant story yesterday in Le Soir.

"With this sort of 'experienced' rider - [underscores Vansevenant's 1997 haematocrit violation, see above in this thread] - it's hard to believe that he didn't find what he was looking for. He was certainly seduced by the effects of the substances on offer. As for wanting to accompany his son on the bike, at $450 an ampoule, that's a pretty costly ride ... In fact, several elements here suggest doping activity at the team level. Big quantities, sophistication of the product and the fact that it's obviously undetectable ... plus the order being placed just before the Tour."

De Mondenard then points out that the substance and its ingredients are not currently on the WADA banned list even though the effects described plainly put it in that bracket. As he has told us before:

"It's much easier this way around: to search, lock the suspects down, find these products and then analyse them [rather than testing riders in controls] ... All the big doping scandals came out this way and all the investments in anti-doping system have turned up almost nothing."

So if doping is, as some argue, less common than in earlier years, concludes de Mondenard, you're hard-pressed to find any supposedly clean rider who claims that the doping controls are more efficient today.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Ok, that first part doesn't make sense to me. He calls 450$ a costly ride? Yet the amount (large batch) seems to indicate it was ordered for an entire team? The way i understood from others here as well, is that one ampule would go a long way (which he indicates himself making the 'team-level' claim). Making it actually rather cheap performance/cost wise. Obviously, it's not "one costly ride", and i would certainly not rule out amateurs wanting to spend that kind of money for a good (and not one time) result.

Also, the fact that the order is placed right before the TDF... seriously? By mailorder? That's an indication? Is the level of stupidity and clumsyness also an indication that it would be used at the TDF? I think the professor should stick to the facts rather than speculate.

 

[L'arriviste]

Ok, that first part doesn't make sense to me. He calls 450$ a costly ride? Yet the amount (large batch) seems to indicate it was ordered for an entire team? The way i understood from others here as well, is that one ampule would go a long way (which he indicates himself making the 'team-level' claim). Making it actually rather cheap performance/cost wise. Obviously, it's not "one costly ride", and i would certainly not rule out amateurs wanting to spend that kind of money for a good (and not one time) result.

Also, the fact that the order is placed right before the TDF... seriously? By mailorder? That's an indication? Is the level of stupidity and clumsyness also an indication that it would be used at the TDF? I think the professor should stick to the facts rather than speculate.

I think de Mondenard meant that it was a whole lot of money to spend on keeping up with your kid on a bike. "A costly ride" being not specifically one but just riding with your kid. Perhaps it's my translation. If so, I apologise.

As for the rest, he was asked his opinion and he gave it. Lots of us have done the same on this thread, but I very much doubt any of us has his level of expertise and experience.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

That is exactly why he of all people should stick to the facts. Leave the "grab your torches and pitchforks" mentality to us

I'm sure he didn't mean "one ride". But how many then? How long a period? 400 euro doesn't seem that much to me, seeing as i ride past guys every day, with a bike costing easily 5 times more than my 1300 euro Ridley, with a beer belly hanging over their frame.

PS: i would rather have heard some information from the professor about which amount of this stuff could be considered to be for one person over how long a period of time. That would have been more useful i think. Also what the exact benefits would be and how soon the effect would kick in etc...

 

[python]

Well-known doping expert Jean-Pierre de Mondenard was wheeled in again to discuss the Vansevenant story yesterday in Le Soir.



De Mondenard then points out that the substance and its ingredients are not currently on the WADA banned list even though the effects described plainly put it in that bracket. As he has told us before:



So if doping is, as some argue, less common than in earlier years, concludes de Mondenard, you're hard-pressed to find any supposedly clean rider who claims that the doping controls are more efficient today.

good read, l'arriviste. de mondenard certainly knows his stuff.

yeah, he speculates a tad more than i have an aptitude for but his consistent premise that dopers are always a step a head has been proven over and over.

he said tb-500 is undetectable...

well, that may be so b/c the wada labs simply don't test for the substance they don't expect but both tb-500 (and it's indigenous analogue tb-4) have been detectable in clinical testing.

the problem is, by the time wada scrambles to validate a tb-500 test, a bunch of monies and medals will be stolen...just as de mondenard said !

 

[Benotti69]

good read, l'arriviste. de mondenard certainly knows his stuff.

yeah, he speculates a tad more than i have an aptitude for but his consistent premise that dopers are always a step a head has been proven over and over.

he said tb-500 is undetectable...

well, that may be so b/c the wada labs simply don't test for the substance they don't expect but both tb-500 (and it's indigenous analogue tb-4) have been detectable in clinical testing.

the problem is, by the time wada scrambles to validate a tb-500 test, a bunch of monies and medals will be stolen...just as de mondenard said !

that is definitely the hard part, but if they do test for it even on older samples we can still rewrite history and name the dopers even though they may be retired, its not much but it is something.

 

[tifosa]

Who better than a former lanterne rouge to be a drug mule?

Must have made complete sense to his team - I mean why look there?

 

[c&cfan]

Who better than a former lanterne rouge to be a drug mule?

Must have made complete sense to his team - I mean why look there?

exactly.

i don't know about some of you, however for me gilbert and all of his team should be suspended by 2 looong years. after all what this sport is suffering, we have these hypocrites that are lying to us, together with their DSs, clearly stating that they have disgust to riders like valverde because unlike them, they are clean.

consequences?

blinding not so smart fans and making this sport look like sh+t, blinding football fans etc.

 

[Franklin]

i don't know about some of you, however for me gilbert and all of his team should be suspended by 2 looong years. .

I'm so glad that courts will look for irrefutable evidence instead of this mob justice.

Innocent until proven guilty is a good thing.

It's painful to see so many civilized people wanting to get rid of it just over something trivial as a sport.

 

[blackcat]

good read, l'arriviste. de mondenard certainly knows his stuff.

yeah, he speculates a tad more than i have an aptitude for but his consistent premise that dopers are always a step a head has been proven over and over.

he said tb-500 is undetectable...

well, that may be so b/c the wada labs simply don't test for the substance they don't expect but both tb-500 (and it's indigenous analogue tb-4) have been detectable in clinical testing.

the problem is, by the time wada scrambles to validate a tb-500 test, a bunch of monies and medals will be stolen...just as de mondenard said !

python, can you remember the name for the testosterone precursor that also does not show up in the GCMS assay? Cheers

*please