Omega Pharma Quick Step: Are you kidding me??

[Escarabajo]

http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=24012

Kelderman, Gretsch.
That was Uran level in the ITT last year.

Now look where Kelderman and Gretsch are now: http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=26044

If that's not significantly better, I don't know know what it is.

I am not saying that Uran is not doping but your theory certainly does not prove anything at all. So many variables could have played in the performance of all three on certain day. Rain, road, parcours, fitness level, captain or domestique, etc. That is just not a sound justification. If you want to use that I prefer to speculate on power numbers better. At least it would give us a better idea.

 

[JimmyFingers]

This. Given the conditions I don't believe we should should be drawing too much from the ITT. Pozzovivo was faster in the first sector wasn't he? Then lost it all on the descent. A wet descent is going to favour whoever got the balls to go for it, as Nibali proved in last year's Giro

 

[Netserk]

I would actually be interested on what where the time differnces on the ascents, descents and flatter sections, I think those who went late on had big advantages on the descents due to drying roads, which makes Ulissi even more impressive.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CUp84npBFBVQecB-h197N4pqCCuUhUvyFwGHVc3k1rw/edit#gid=1529667440

 

[Escarabajo]

If somebody wants to infer something from the ITT do the following:

1- Estimate power numbers. No matter how especulative they are. It would give us a qualitative idea of the two efforts (last year's versus this year's).

2- Check first check times versus second check times. I thought Uran was not the best. He made most of his time in the descend and final run in to the finish.

Boscasso km 12,6, Pos Nome Naz Team Tempo Dist
1 POZZOVIVO Domenico ITA ALM 21:13 0:00
2 URAN URAN Rigoberto COL OPQ 21:28 0:15
3 ARU Fabio ITA AST 21:39 0:26
4 ULISSI Diego ITA LAM 21:40 0:27
5 POELS Wouter NED OPQ 21:51 0:38
6 MAJKA Rafal POL TCS 21:53 0:40
7 QUINTANA Nairo COL MOV 21:58 0:45
8 DE GENDT Thomas BEL OPQ 22:03 0:50
9 EVANS Cadel AUS BMC 22:06 0:53
10 KELDERMAN Wilco NED BEL 22:09 0:56

Alba - Km 26,3Pos Nome Naz Team Tempo Dist
1 URAN URAN Rigoberto COL OPQ 35:12 0:00
2 ULISSI Diego ITA LAM 35:39 0:27
3 DE GENDT Thomas BEL OPQ 35:51 0:39
4 MAJKA Rafal POL TCS 36:01 0:49
5 POELS Wouter NED OPQ 36:01 0:49
6 GRETSCH Patrick GER ALM 36:05 0:53
7 KELDERMAN Wilco NED BEL 36:10 0:58
8 EVANS Cadel AUS BMC 36:11 0:59
9 BRAMBILLA Gianluca ITA OPQ 36:18 1:06
10 POZZOVIVO Domenico ITA ALM 36:19 1:07

3- Check how the road conditions changed. This is huge!!!!. Riding in the rain on a slippery road versus a dry road makes a big difference. Especially on the descend.

 

[JimmyFingers]

The devil is in the detail

 

[The Hitch]

This. Given the conditions I don't believe we should should be drawing too much from the ITT. Pozzovivo was faster in the first sector wasn't he? Then lost it all on the descent. A wet descent is going to favour whoever got the balls to go for it, as Nibali proved in last year's Giro

Uran did not gap the field by 1 and a half minutes because of a descent. His advantage increased steadily throughout the tt.

And Nibali last year got all his time on mtfs.

 

[JimmyFingers]

He significantly limited his losses to Wiggins in the ITT due to his superior descending

 

[JimmyFingers]

Uran did not gap the field by 1 and a half minutes because of a descent. His advantage increased steadily throughout the tt.

And Nibali last year got all his time on mtfs.

Actually hang on, I didn't say any of that, and yet you complain about me strawmaning you.

 

[The Hitch]

He significantly limited his losses to Wiggins in the ITT due to his superior descending

And how does that explain uran yesterday? You know for a fact he pushed hard there and no one else did?

Btw the descent last year was more technical and it wasn't just a descent but a technical first half of the course.

 

[The Hitch]

Actually hang on, I didn't say any of that, and yet you complain about me strawmaning you.

You said

A wet descent is going to favour whoever got the balls to go for it, as Nibali proved in last year's Giro

I responded that a descent can't explain urans win since he gained time throughout. Where is the strawman?

 

[JimmyFingers]

You said


I responded that a descent can't explain urans win since he gained time throughout. Where is the strawman?

The more general point In was going for was that variable and extreme conditions throughout an ITT complicates comparing performances, since the riders had different conditions to contend with.

I generally walk the line between saying between X or Y are dirty or clean, so I wasn't saying it to defend Uran, I was saying as a warning against inferring too much from Uran's performance in this ITT alone. Quite frankly when I saw the times I was amazed he managed to do that much damage in the ITT. Talented rider he most certainly is, but that was a demolition.

What I found confusing also is that Uran has showed pretty much indifferent form throghout this season leading up to the Giro.

But even with in mind that I'm not going to turn around and condemn him, it's just not in my nature. Perhaps he has gone to a new team and got on the sauce, perhaps he has been doping all along, or perhaps he is clean. Hopefully time will tell.

 

[roundabout]

I could be remembering things wrong, but wasn't the Saltara ITT a bit weather affected as well?

 

[RiccoDinko]

Why follow the sport, if you think every great performance is suspect? Does Rigoberto have a bunch of ties to doping? Past convictions? I realize his ITT result was surprising, but that's sport, that's why we watch it. It's not so predictable, or it would be boring.

 

[roundabout]

A few people "in the know" seem to think he is dodgy, but it seems that we are back to have never tested positive style arguments

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Me thinks when mister Taus is handing out finishing bottles at the start of every stage some peeps will not see any harm in it.

So be it.

Columbians always could time trial.

Some will always believe in fairytales.

 

[The Hitch]

Why follow the sport, if you think every great performance is suspect? Does Rigoberto have a bunch of ties to doping? Past convictions? I realize his ITT result was surprising, but that's sport, that's why we watch it. It's not so predictable, or it would be boring.

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

 

[Benotti69]

So just who is Dr. Jose Ibarguren Taus?

http://www.cyclismas.com/biscuits/so-just-who-is-dr-jose-ibarguren-taus/

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

So just who is Dr. Jose Ibarguren Taus?

http://www.cyclismas.com/biscuits/so-just-who-is-dr-jose-ibarguren-taus/

Leinders or Taus, equally equiped.

 

[hrotha]

Stop calling him "Taus" plox.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

408 watts from Basso.

But he crashed, he punctured, he probably isn't very aero and he's a chicken descender.

 

[zlev11]

So just who is Dr. Jose Ibarguren Taus?

http://www.cyclismas.com/biscuits/so-just-who-is-dr-jose-ibarguren-taus/

we need to get dimspace to do one of these on Leinders.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

we need to get dimspace to do one of these on Leinders.

When dim published those i think el pistolero ask him/demanded him (as el pistolero usually demanded people ) to do one on leinders on the race chat over in velorooms but sadly i don't know the end of the convo.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

A few people "in the know" seem to think he is dodgy, but it seems that we are back to have never tested positive style arguments

Exactly this.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

408 watts from Basso.

But he crashed, he punctured, he probably isn't very aero and he's a chicken descender.

Plus he had to stop to pee.

 

[doperhopper]

Plus he had to stop to pee.

what? In-race doping controls are here?