dimspace said:
not flaming but you really have hit a whole new level of cynasism...
there are many lances, the arrogant sportsman, the ruthless businessman, the media savvy publicist, possibly even a cheat in the sporting arena...
there are many arrogant sportsman, in fact many of the best in history achieved because of it, because of the level of fear they put into opponents, many ruthless businessmen are lauded and respected, donald trump has worldwide fans and he puts lance firmly in the shame for shameless disrespect, many people exploit the media, many people dope, maybe lance is so hated by some because he has perfected all four...
But the one thing you cant manipulate deep down, is your love for your kids... its easy to say he uses the kids as a media tool, but really, you have to accept that whatever lances flaws, or strengths you have no idea of his love for his kids... Yeh sure hold it against him because his ex feeds them, takes them to school, does the day to day stuff... thats how it works, there are millions of broken families all over america, it happens, and on the whole the women bring them up, many of the kids never see their fathers, and if hes there to spend halloween with them well good on him.. if he stayed home, youd critise him, if he decided to go out to dinner with barbie you would slate him for not being with his kids... so hes with his kids and its blamed on a publicity stunt.. Hes like a million other fathers in america.. Hes ****ed up his marriage, loads do it, hes had girlfreinds, loads do it.. Hes NORMAL!!!!
My father left when i was 3.. thats 35 years ago... i have heard from him once in that time.. i know where he is, hes actually a fairly high official at a proffesional football club in this country.. he spent five years denying i was even his son despite the fact that i look exactly like him... Id LOVE it if he went out with me for halloween, even if it was for a publicity stunt...
You can critise lance for a lot of things, but you cant critisise him for this.. and you cant take away from his kids the sheer joy they would have had from spending a night dressed up going out trick or treating with their dad..
We all **** up sometimes, lance has, but would you rather he was like the millions of other fathers who have no contact with their kids?
"a cynic is worse than a sceptic.. their foundation is fear"
Yes there are many faces to the Lance Armstrong. All exploit one thing. The media.
Thanks for the personal background info dimspace. You mentioned earlier that plenty of people world wide, million in numbers, post pictures of their moments of idiocy and joking about on social networking sites such as MySpace, FaceBook, Twitter, Flickers etc. Most are private and locked with security protocols. A select few can see personal details/info. Lance has over a million followers who have access to everything. He knew they would see the picture and anything he posts is intentional and deliberate. I won't tell you how to interpret it but I will suggest that Lance knew what he was doing and there was a purpose behind it.
Look to explain it better I'll give you a time perspective. Before the second coming I'd heard about Lance's drug taking but only looked into it thoroughly this year when his behaviour didn't match his word. I learned a great deal about doping in general, Lance and doping, but also that off the bike his character is lacking. After the Tour, I arrived at not being too fond of him, which I have been in the past. When he left his wife of 5 years with 3 small children, I thought it stunk (that was in 2005). I have never been able to contemplate how someone could willing agree to have children with their partner and not tough it out, but leave because it is convenient. I think leaving is cowardly and you should be very clear upfront with your expectations and desires in any relationship or not bother at all. You are simply wasting people's time.
However, I have never thought he was a great husband or father. Anyone, not just famous individuals who does what he did to his wife and children for nothing more than what appears to be selfish intentions gets no sympathy from me. Without discussing particulars, it is low, very low. Has my history mimicked this. Polar opposite. Nothing like it. I don't care that he did this, but I do know I could not, which is why I find it foul. This personal perspective is why I said the real judges will be his ex-wife and his children with the new girlfriend added in to the mix (nightmare) as anyone if of their father. You have the runs on the board. Being prudent would be wise and we will find out some time in the future when the kids are teenagers and young adults who can think for themselves. There is a lot of muck the may object to.
My point was that we may not know the particulars but comparing him to fathers who are 100 percent absent is not accurate, nor does it make him normal. Lleyton Hewitt has two young children who are on the road with him all season. Compare that to a pro-cyclist who works in Europe but whose children live in America. Lance is not normal. Kristin Armstrong raises the kids, Lance is away most of the time. She gets the Kudos. Yes it may be normal from his kids perspective, but that does not make it so in societal habits or ideals. Plus if he was a normal dad, he would not be critiqued, least of all by me. Good on him for spending what time he has with his children. Every second counts. I won't knock him for that (or doubt that he loves them) yet this will not tempt me to blindly shut my eyes and hope they are playing happy family 24/7 365 days a year. He could do more, as could many others.
pedaling squares said:
I don't understand where we, a bunch of cycling fans, get the nerve to judge whether a man is an adequate father and husband. Especially when most of our intel comes from the entertainment media.
We get that from perspective, ideals and beliefs, but it is reflection, not judgement. What is being marketed has no reflection on undertakings behind closed doors. That is why I raised it. Think about the psychology, statistics and stereotypes associated with difficult family relations. Lance already has most negative boxes ticked. I never said he was a bad father (his children are the only people qualified to do this) just that there is massive doubt there. There are issues. A great parent would not care if this were raised (unless pride and ego are rampant), they would ignore it because they know it is not true. Those who take issue, I suspect may have felt awkward at some home truths. This isn't personal, instead a reflection of universal values human values that are being bent and in some cases, broken on a regular occurrence. I have a favourite quote that sums it up, "Any fool can knock someone up, it takes a real man to be a father." The children will know, they always do.
blackcat said:
Prance is building an empire. Like The Donald. But Prance is trying to beat Shawn Kemp's record of fathering children out of wedlock. All the chicks knocked up in Malibu and Austin will be sending alimony petitions and fathers day cards to the Pranceplex.
Happy family, white picket fence, cancer survivor. Empire sounds right. The American dream. Package it, market and advertise that you are just like everyone else. That is why Max has a twitter account the month he is born. Play the sympathy card. Zomba records did it with Britney Spears. Sweet Louisiana virgin and mickey mouse clubber. Fast forward to today and reality suggests she was closer to trailer trash. Harsh, I know, but honest. People buy into fantasies, especially ones that suggest they have origins/history like their target market. LA may be a good father, I don't doubt he loves his kids, but with all I have learnt in my time, coupled with his background and issues, stereotypical in nature as they are, I have reservations that only his ex-wife and children can confirm do not have any basis. I hope for their sake I'm wrong.