Opinion: After CAS , what will Alberto's penalty be?

[python]

repeating again my previous post (though not so well discussed): a german news station reported yesterday (in some sports 2010 overview) about the otcharov case - how he was let off the hook in large part thanks to his negative hairtest - and then switched to Contador, noting he doesn't have a negative hairtest result, and hence will in all likeliness be unable to avoid suspension.
If I'm correct, this can mean three things: 1. He didn't do a hairtest (yet); 2. He did one but it came out positive; 3. He did one and it came out negative but for some reason doesn't feel the need to make it public.

Anyway, I was merely checking if anybody knew which one of the three it is.
And he really does need that negative hairtest.

if contador’s team did their home work right, imo, they’d have to use the following rationale for timing the hair follicle test:

-since one of the most damming suspicions is that clen entered contador from a blood extracted right after dauphine libere, he needs to show to the jury that there was no clen in his system between 13 june and 21 july - a classic 35-40 days window for blood storage. since the reported window of detectabillity for hair tests is around three months, contador had plenty of time even considering a 30+ days delay in learning about the positive. i’d put this date to the beginning of september or about . Otoh, the uci/wada can argue that lack of clen in the hair means nothing b/c of micro dosing. looking at ovcharov's and gasquet ruling, it appears the jury was not concerned with microdozing. in fact, some of cas's conclusions were based on the arguments so spacious, that they seem amazing ('her hair had the drug but his didn't and because she kissed him he was likely dirtied by a doper') ,

-another criteria for the timing would be to try to show that he did not ingest large and repeat dozes going as far back from 21 july as possible with the most sensitive test available.

if we eventually learn that contador never had the hair test, I’d consider it a sign he knew the high risk of testing positive and the possibility of being exposed by yet another leak or a damming truth about being a doper.

 

[TERMINATOR]

No, UCI does not determine suspension, but since it appears that Pat McQuaid wanted all of this to go away without seeing light may have an influence.
Lighten up dud.

The national federation of the rider, the doping agency (i.e. USADA), or CAS determine the suspension, not the UCI.

Pat McQuaid has no say in how doping cases are handled and WADA has the right to appeal if they want to without getting the UCI's blessing (and often do).

Please pay attention.

 

[TERMINATOR]

if contador’s team did their home work right, imo, they’d have to use the following rationale for timing the hair follicle test:

-since one of the most damming suspicions is that clen entered contador from a blood extracted right after dauphine libere, he needs to show to the jury that there was no clen in his system between 13 june and 21 july - a classic 35-40 days window for blood storage. since the reported window of detectabillity for hair tests is around three months, contador had plenty of time even considering a 30+ days delay in learning about the positive. i’d put this date to the beginning of september or about . Otoh, the uci/wada can argue that lack of clen in the hair means nothing b/c of micro dosing. looking at ovcharov's and gasquet ruling, it appears the jury was not concerned with microdozing. in fact, some of cas's conclusions were based on the arguments so spacious, that they seem amazing ('her hair had the drug but his didn't and because she kissed him he was likely dirtied by a doper') ,

-another criteria for the timing would be to try to show that he did not ingest large and repeat dozes going as far back from 21 july as possible with the most sensitive test available.

if we eventually learn that contador never had the hair test, I’d consider it a sign he knew the high risk of testing positive and the possibility of being exposed by yet another leak or a damming truth about being a doper.

Nobody knows when the blood was extracted for a transfusion assuming that's what happened, so how you came up with this narrow window of time is bizarre.

The hair test is likely already too late. Contador keeps his hair short and the oldest part of his hair is probably no more than 5-6 months old, so the hair test is void.

Second, it's not Contador that has to run the hair test, but WADA. WADA has no desire to run a hair test when they already have a positive analytical sample. A hair test doesn't prove anything since he already tested positive for clenbuterol. It doesn't matter if he only did it once or twice, which might cause his hair to test negative.

You really don't understand how these doping cases work, do you?

 

[python]

You failed to state what was wrong about my post. Contador is getting 2 years.

You clearly have no idea how the WADA Code works if you think the contaminated 'cut of meat' story is going to wash. Contador will be unable to show the meat he ate was contaminated. If he could do that, cyclingnews would have ran an article on it by now.

i clearly showed in several posts that you blathering and pretending to be an isider. you also produced conradictory statements about wada not needing to prove anything and them claiming that you 'know' in fact that wada tested the meat. you have very little knowledge but you exposed yourself for being a hollow poster. not only you dont have any clue , you attempt to lecture people who clearly have much more credibility and knowledge than you. empty blabber !

 

[hrotha]

Nobody knows when the blood was extracted for a transfusion assuming that's what happened, so how you came up with this narrow window of time is bizarre.

The idea is that blood can only be stored for so long before it becomes unusable. You can store it for months by centrifuging it, but then it wouldn't retain any traces of clen.

 

[python]

The national federation of the rider, the doping agency (i.e. USADA), or CAS determine the suspension, not the UCI.

Pat McQuaid has no say in how doping cases are handled and WADA has the right to appeal if they want to without getting the UCI's blessing (and often do).

Please pay attention.

another stupid and incompetent post. under the wada code, any international fed has the right of appeal, thus giving them a direct ability to determine and influence the suspension.

 

[TERMINATOR]

What I know is that the hairtest is thought to have been pretty significant in Otcharov's case. And AC was recommended to do one as well by his lawyers, just that we haven't heard whether that has gone down already.

WADA appealed Otcharov's case and CAS has yet to rule on it. He will likely be found guilty by CAS and given 2 years. For you to cite a pending appeal as some kind of precedent for Contador is disingenuous.

http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news?slug=ap-doping-ovtcharov

 

[python]

... is bizarre.

yes, it's bizarre that you have been exposed for a blabber, pretender and clulesness and yet you're still trying to come back and claim the opposite and lecture people. pay attention and get a little humble pie you've been served.

 

[Cloxxki]

If transfusion should be found as explanation for the clen positive, aren't we looking as a lifetime ban as the only fitting penalty to be demanded?
If only 2 years, it means that if you take clen or blood doping, you might as well take the other as well, as "doped" is "doped". Hech, the added 2nd violation seems to even reduce the chance of ultimately being penalized at all?

 

[TERMINATOR]

another stupid and incompetent post. under the wada code, any international fed has the right of appeal, thus giving them a direct ability to determine and influence the suspension.

Wrong. Even if an international federation files an appeal, CAS is the only entity - I repeat, the only entity - which gets to decide not only the athlete's guilt or innocence, but their suspension. The UCI has no say in either.

But then again I guess I shouldn't expect too much insight from a person who doesn't use a capital letter to start each sentence.

 

[TERMINATOR]

yes, it's bizarre that you have been exposed for a blabber, pretender and clulesness and yet you're still trying to come back and claim the opposite and lecture people. pay attention and get a little humble pie you've been served.

When Contador gets a 2 year ban, then you will have been proven to be the village idiot.

 

[python]

WADA appealed Otcharov's case and CAS has yet to rule on it. He will likely be found guilty by CAS and given 2 years. For you to cite a pending appeal as some kind of precedent for Contador is disingenuous.

http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news?slug=ap-doping-ovtcharov

another indication that you don't know what you're talking about. you are again challenged to produce evidence that wada officially appealed the ovcharov case. wada only announced it's right to appeal and entered the cas registry b/c they had questions to the german table tennis fed.

again, you are jumping from what you'd like to read to what actually happened.

in addition to clulesness you're very sloppy indeed.

 

[python]

When Contador gets a 2 year ban, then you will have been proven to be the village idiot.

when my grand ma will be a grandpa then you will have been proven a true idiot.

 

[TERMINATOR]

i clearly showed in several posts that you blathering and pretending to be an isider. you also produced conradictory statements about wada not needing to prove anything and them claiming that you 'know' in fact that wada tested the meat. you have very little knowledge but you exposed yourself for being a hollow poster. not only you dont have any clue , you attempt to lecture people who clearly have much more credibility and knowledge than you. empty blabber !

WADA wasn't required to obtain samples of the meat from the butcher and test them (all were negative). They simply did that to pre-empt Contador's defense, which I notice fails to even show a positive sample from the butcher.

WADA is not required to disprove the contaminated meat story, but they went the extra mile because it's a high profile case. Under the WADA Code, Contador is the one who has to show a positive sample from the butcher, which he cannot do.

Contador and his lawyers think they are going to walk into a CAS hearing with a hypothetical story of contamination from some legal expert and win their case. Not gonna happen.

 

[python]

WADA wasn't required to obtain samples of the meat from the butcher and test them (all were negative). They simply did that to pre-empt Contador's defense, which I notice fails to even show a positive sample from the butcher.

WADA is not required to disprove the contaminated meat story, but they went the extra mile because it's a high profile case. Under the WADA Code, Contador is the one who has to show a positive sample from the butcher, which he cannot do.

Contador and his lawyers think they are going to walk into a CAS hearing with a hypothetical story of contamination from some legal expert and win their case. Not gonna happen.

do you really think you endlessly repeating baseless statements makes them factual ? for the n-th time produced evidence that wada tested the meat.

produce evidence backing up your statements or shut up !

you're embarrassing yourself to much.

 

[TERMINATOR]

another indication that you don't know what you're talking about. you are again challenged to produce evidence that wada officially appealed the ovcharov case. wada only announced it's right to appeal and entered the cas registry b/c they had questions to the german table tennis fed.

again, you are jumping from what you'd like to read to what actually happened.

in addition to clulesness you're very sloppy indeed.

Are you illiterate too? WADA filed an appeal. There's no such thing as "entering the registry because WADA had questions".....it's called an appeal.

From the article:

Reeb said the court has asked all parties to submit written evidence before it sets a date for the appeal. A ruling typically follows several weeks after the hearing.

http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news?slu...ping-ovtcharov

 

[python]

Wrong. CAS is the only entity - I repeat, the only entity -

another stamp of your incompetence buttressed by a burning desire to thinly cover it with absolute black and white blabber.

i repeat, cas is not the only entity. the swiss supreme court is the ultimate entity, sloppy you.

and since any fed can appeal, they have a direct ability to influence the suspension duration. there are many examples when the uci successfully overturned national feds. incompetento.

 

[TERMINATOR]

The idea is that blood can only be stored for so long before it becomes unusable. You can store it for months by centrifuging it, but then it wouldn't retain any traces of clen.

Blood can be stored for years if refrigerated. I'm not saying it's a good idea to do that, but who the hell knows what cyclists do.

 

[python]

Reeb said the court has asked all parties to submit written evidence before it sets a date for the appeal. A ruling typically follows several weeks after the hearing.

http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news?slu...ping-ovtcharov

do you know how to use a keyboard?

who is reeb?

and now you cover your incompetence with links that dont work ? classy.

 

[python]

Blood can be stored for years if refrigerated. I'm not saying it's a good idea to do that, but who the hell knows what cyclists do.

another evidence of incompetence. blood can not be stored for years if refrigirated. only 35 to 42 days depending on the additives.

incompetento, blood can be stored for years if it's frozen by a liquid nitrogen-glycerol method

that's 5th straight example in a row and a prove of you claiming something you have little idea about.

how many more times are willing to embarrass yourself ?

 

[TERMINATOR]

another stamp of your incompetence buttressed by a burning desire to thinly cover it with absolute black and white blabber.

i repeat, cas is not the only entity. the swiss supreme court is the ultimate entity, sloppy you.

and since any fed can appeal, they have a direct ability to influence the suspension duration. there are many examples when the uci successfully overturned national feds. incompetento.

The Swiss Supreme Court has never decided a case in favor of an athlete in 10 years. Not one case. They have consistently ruled that CAS is the sole arbiter of WADA doping cases. If you don't believe me, ask Valverde and the dozens of other athletes throughout the world who filed appeals with the Swiss Supreme Court (all lost).

The UCI never overturned any national federation's incompetence. Only CAS can do that. The UCI may have filed an appeal, but ultimately CAS was the only one who made the decision, not the UCI.

 

[TERMINATOR]

do you know how to use a keyboard?

who is reeb?

and now you cover your incompetence with links that dont work ? classy.

You don't know who Reeb is? Not surprising. Read the article. It says who he is. And the fact that you don't even know who Reeb is says something about your knowledge of WADA Code and CAS.

For your information, I have personally spoken to Reeb in the past. So I can assure you I know who he is.

 

[python]

The Swiss Supreme Court has never decided a case in favor of an athlete in 10 years.

fortunately for you i have to get off this useless task of educating you and do something i enjoy much more --cross-country skiing.

you lost all credibility with me and i hope i was able to show to others your incompetence and sloppiness. just to conclude, as i showed above you are wrong every time you open your mouth but pretending to lecture people. i hope the lesson was helpful.

 

[TERMINATOR]

another evidence of incompetence. blood can not be stored for years if refrigirated. only 35 to 42 days depending on the additives.

incompetento, blood can be stored for years if it's frozen by a liquid nitrogen-glycerol method

that's 5th straight example in a row and a prove of you claiming something you have little idea about.

how many more times are willing to embarrass yourself ?

Like I said, blood can be kept for years. And just because it goes bad doesn't mean athletes won't use it long after they shouldn't. The next thing you're gonna tell me is cyclists won't take more EPO than they're suppose to even though dozens of cyclists have died from taking too much and Riis was known as "Mr. 60%'er" from taking so much of the stuff.

I also wasn't making a distinction between refrigerated blood vs. frozen blood...I simply meant blood can be stored for years which proves the hair sample test and window of time you gave were pointless for proving Contador's innocence.

 

[veganrob]

The national federation of the rider, the doping agency (i.e. USADA), or CAS determine the suspension, not the UCI.

Pat McQuaid has no say in how doping cases are handled and WADA has the right to appeal if they want to without getting the UCI's blessing (and often do).

Please pay attention.

I know how the process is supposed to work. I am also not so naive as to believe it works that way all the time.
The UCI represents a product. It's purpose is to make money. In order to make they need to present a clean product that sponsors will want to pay big money for. No sponsors, no racing. A product tainted by drugs is not good. Riders are getting away with slaps on the wrist or less very often. Wake up. How is that true. Have you been reading other threads or just don't believe it?

Please get your head out of the sand