Oscar Pistorius

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the layout makes it look VERY bad for Pistorious Bryant. It was not the case of the bathroom being adjacent to the bedroom as I suspect most people thought, he had to go through the walk in robe, turn around TWO corners then shot diagonally through the water closet not straight through the door which ensured anyone within would certainly get hit.

This is an execution. Plain and simple.

And no, there is not a physical connection between the balcomies
 
sittingbison said:
the layout makes it look VERY bad for Pistorious Bryant. It was not the case of the bathroom being adjacent to the bedroom as I suspect most people thought, he had to go through the walk in robe, turn around TWO corners then shot diagonally through the water closet not straight through the door which ensured anyone within would certainly get hit.

This is an execution. Plain and simple.

I agree. I will just add that it seems to me that if you shoot at someone through a door, particularly at an angle, it’s not very likely you would kill the person on the first shot. In which case there would be screaming. But Pistorius testified there was none, that even after he stopped firing he didn’t know it was Reeva inside.

Pistorius is trying to have it both ways. On the one hand, he thought whoever was in the toilet was armed and dangerous, justifying shooting to kill without trying to find out the person’s identity. His testimony suggests he panicked. On the other hand, he was sufficiently unafraid of being shot to go right up to the toilet door—clumsily on his stumps, no less, exposing himself to danger if the supposed intruder himself shoots through the door—and carefully line up his shots at a target he can’t see.

As others have pointed out, the safest thing to do—something someone even in a panic should have been able to figure out—would be to stand guard with the gun at the bathroom door until security arrived. The supposed intruder can’t possibly be any threat unless he comes out of the toilet, in which case Pistorius has the clear advantage.

Having said all this, I still think the neighbor's testimony, if it holds up, holds the key. The scenario OP describes defies common sense, but it does not defy any laws of physics or biology. It is improbable, but not impossible. OTOH, if there was a period of several minutes between firing of the first shot and the other shots, and a woman screamed during that period, that is flat-out impossible to reconcile with OP's version. In fact, just the reported gap between shots seems incompatible with Pistorius' story.

Wrt that time gap: I wonder if it’s possible he killed her with a single shot to the head in the bedroom, then dragged or carried her into the toilet and fired several more shots, to make it look like he thought she was an intruder. I guess there were four bullet holes in the door, but is it certain he didn’t fire a fifth shot? I know the prosecution has retracted the claim that a shell was found in the bedroom, but I’m assuming that if he staged it like this, he would have been careful not to leave any evidence of shooting in the bedroom. This scenario, of course, also assumes that smashing the door down was also staged, that it in fact was never locked. I assume when he got through destroying the door there would be no evidence that it was or was not locked.
 
Merckx , head wounds bleed -- a LOT. no way to hide where that happened, at least forensically.

i believe his testimony was that he broke down the door until the key fell out or something and he was able to open the door -- meaning there would not be evidence of whether or not it was ever locked regardless.

his lawyer is quite good.
 
Sep 22, 2012
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Elagabalus said:
One things for sure, if I'm ever accused of a murder that I did not commit and I somehow find out that most of the jury will consist mainly of denizens from CyclingnewsForums, I think I will crumple to the ground in sobs and confess on the spot.:eek:

He confessed to murder in his statement to the court. He has only denied not wanting to kill his girlfriend, he has not denied he wanted to kill his imagined intruder. Perhaps he believes it is his right to kill intruders, I do not. There is no excuse for anyone to take deliberate actions aimed to hurt or kill another person that results in the killing of another person in the world today. It is all murder.
 
Mad Elephant Man said:
I agree.

As far as I am concerned what he did, no matter who he thought was inside the toilet, and even if it had turned out to be an intruder inside the toilet, was totally inexcusable and he deserves to spend the rest of his life locked up. Everyday until he dies there.

I was thinking exactly this just before I read your post.

All the rest is backround noise intended to confuse the issue.
 
Aug 6, 2009
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Mad Elephant Man said:
He confessed to murder in his statement to the court. He has only denied not wanting to kill his girlfriend, he has not denied he wanted to kill his imagined intruder. Perhaps he believes it is his right to kill intruders, I do not. There is no excuse for anyone to take deliberate actions aimed to hurt or kill another person that results in the killing of another person in the world today. It is all murder.
The issue isn't what you or OP believes is his right, but what SA law says. I don't know this for a fact, but I strongly suspect the OP could shot an intruder with little or no legal hassle. His (legal) problem is that even in his own version he has no good reason to think the person in the bathroom is anyone but his girlfriend.
 
Aug 6, 2009
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thirteen said:
Merckx , head wounds bleed -- a LOT. no way to hide where that happened, at least forensically.

i believe his testimony was that he broke down the door until the key fell out or something and he was able to open the door -- meaning there would not be evidence of whether or not it was ever locked regardless.

his lawyer is quite good.

Also I'm fairly sure you can tell if a wound was pre- or postmortem. If he shot he after she died the autopsy would show that.
 
from the DailyMail:
article-2282087-1812D800000005DC-495_634x515.jpg

if you click on the article, has anyone else noticed that all the shots of OP (and even his family) in court look like photos from a magazine spread? it's like a promo for an upcoming movie, rather than a defendant in court. all quite eerie. PR in overdrive?
 
thats an interesting infographic thirteen, because the room layout plan is totally different from the previous one zam posted. And the route of travel is quite significant.

BTW I love the cricket bat in the corner :D
 
sittingbison said:
thats an interesting infographic thirteen, because the room layout plan is totally different from the previous one zam posted. And the route of travel is quite significant.

BTW I love the cricket bat in the corner :D
if you see in the corner, it says "Oscar's account" (for what that's worth -- it is the Daily Mail, after all) and, yes, it differs from other graphics i've seen... in all others, OP would have had to shoot at an angle to get her in the toilet rather than straight ahead.

but, yeah, the legs under the telly and the bat in the corner :D

it is all so surreal and would almost be funny -- if not for the fact that a young woman was killed.

(eta: but we are allowed to laugh at that clearly biased graphic)
 
thirteen said:
...it says "Oscar's account" ...in all others, OP would have had to shoot at an angle to get her in the toilet rather than straight ahead...

This is a fine distinction that is tremendously important. And the level of difficulty in getting into the shooting position (turning two corners not straight into the bathroom). And ALSO the location of the shell casing found outside the bathroom.
 
sittingbison said:
This is a fine distinction that is tremendously important. And the level of difficulty in getting into the shooting position (turning two corners not straight into the bathroom). And ALSO the location of the shell casing found outside the bathroom.
hugely important! imo, it's the difference between defensive and in cold blood.

i missed the placement of the casing, though... where was it found?
 
May 21, 2010
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This one and Zam's seem the same.

http://huisgenoot.com/fokus/oscar-saak-vloerplan-van-badkamer-en-slaapkamer/

It even shows the bed

That's one helluva' hoofslaapkamer!

The daily mail you gotta' lov'em. Although it does raise an interesting point. Is that how OP gets around without prosthetics? How tall is the bed. Could he see over the bed?

Anyway the court is back in session ...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2013/feb/22/oscar-pistorius-bail-decision-live-coverage

Let's listen ...uh ...read
 
Feb 20, 2013
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First post ever... Zams plan is different to the one showing on bbc at the moment. My thoughts have probably already been covered, but, how do we know the door was locked, did he break it down? Keys falling out of locks do not unlock doors! Did he shoot the lock. I see 13 saying she was fully dressed, why, very odd. He should be one because irrespective of who or what was behind that door.. He shot, 4 times, without getting a response or verifying danger.. Sorry "felt vulnerable" the things this guy has one in his life... I dint believe he would ever feel "vulnerable"....
 
yup this is the same as Zams 3D version. I seem to recall one shell was found outside the bathroom in the walk in robe.

Looking at that floor plan, standing next to the vanity with the shells ejecting to the right its a President Kennedy/Oliver Stone "magic bullet" scenario, the one changing direction etc. There is no way it could have snuck back around two corners and entered the robe.
 
Sep 22, 2012
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sittingbison said:
yup this is the same as Zams 3D version. I seem to recall one shell was found outside the bathroom in the walk in robe.

Looking at that floor plan, standing next to the vanity with the shells ejecting to the right its a President Kennedy/Oliver Stone "magic bullet" scenario, the one changing direction etc. There is no way it could have snuck back around two corners and entered the robe.

IT could have been kicked, stepped on and carried on the sole of shoe I guess or somehow got moved.
 
thirteen said:


1. Pistorius is awake enough to worry about his fan.

2. He hears a noise in the bathroom. First instinct is that it's an intruder, not the second person is that house.

2.33 He gets his gun under the bed. It's too dark to see if Steenkamp is there, but doesn't bother to check.

2.66 He instead screams at her to call the police -- effectively warning the intruder he has been spotted -- but doesn't bother to wait for a response.

3. Pistorius is so afraid that he screams again to make sure the intruder knows he's coming into the bathroom. He must really fear this potentially armed intruder when he crawls into the bathroom, without his prosthetics, after announcing himself.

4. He hears a noise inside the toilet. So he bravely crawls closer to it and fires 4 shots randomly through the door.

5. He remembers his girlfriend.


I guess it's possible, but it seems very unlikely. Either way the death of his girlfriend is really no accident. How can you be so reckless that you don't make sure it's not your girlfriend you are shooting at?


Edit: Here are the floor plans btw:
BDivIm6CYAADATT.jpg


Seems like they all are different, but this one seems most reliable.
 
Is toilet paper really expensive in South Africa? How to explain that an "intruder" is in the toilets? And if he yelled at some time (to scare the "intruder"?) it would only make sense that Steenkamp would yell something back to indicate her presence.

I haven't been following this closely, but it appears to be a totally fabricated lie in order to get off of a heinous crime. Just another athlete scumbag, surrounded by rotten "lawyers" and PR specialists.
 
Trudgin said:
First post ever... Zams plan is different to the one showing on bbc at the moment. My thoughts have probably already been covered, but, how do we know the door was locked, did he break it down? Keys falling out of locks do not unlock doors! Did he shoot the lock. I see 13 saying she was fully dressed, why, very odd. He should be one because irrespective of who or what was behind that door.. He shot, 4 times, without getting a response or verifying danger.. Sorry "felt vulnerable" the things this guy has one in his life... I dint believe he would ever feel "vulnerable"....

Welcome to the forum, you should post more here. :)
 
MrRoboto said:
1. Pistorius is awake enough to worry about his fan.

2. He hears a noise in the bathroom. First instinct is that it's an intruder, not the second person is that house.

2.33 He gets his gun under the bed. It's too dark to see if Steenkamp is there, but doesn't bother to check.

2.66 He instead screams at her to call the police -- effectively warning the intruder he has been spotted -- but doesn't bother to wait for a response.

3. Pistorius is so afraid that he screams again to make sure the intruder knows he's coming into the bathroom. He must really fear this potentially armed intruder when he crawls into the bathroom, without his prosthetics, after announcing himself.

4. He hears a noise inside the toilet. So he bravely crawls closer to it and fires 4 shots randomly through the door.

5. He remembers his girlfriend.


I guess it's possible, but it seems very unlikely. Either way the death of his girlfriend is really no accident. How can you be so reckless that you don't make sure it's not your girlfriend you are shooting at?


Edit: Here are the floor plans btw:


Seems like they all are different, but this one seems most reliable.

Also, surely when he screams his girlfriend would answer? Something along the lines of "It's me, don't shoot!".
 
Sep 22, 2012
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King Boonen said:
Who's shoe exactly?

Oscar's perhaps, a stupid policeman's, I don't know. Just speculating the possibility that it could be in a different place because it some how got moved from where it initially fell. No idea how likely it would be.