Oscar Pistorius

[leftover pie]

the bail decision baffles me.

surely he's going to jail?

and it's only a matter of how long and on what charge? so what's the point in releasing him on bail?

unless there's a law in south africa "you can kill someone and get off scot free if you think they're someone else"

the mistaken target law.

"whoops my bad. i killed your aunt/uncle/dad/daughter/son etc etc, i thought they were someone else"

"hey no worries, it's the south african way!"

i would imagine clear bulletproof doors are all the rage for bathrooms in new houses in south africa right now.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Actually, mew, if he didn't have his prosthetics on getting that fan from the balcony might have been a rather clumsy affair (and taken more time). I don't know how he gets around when on his stumps and if he has to use his hands but how does he hold the fan and move at the same time?

I suggested earlier in the thread that it might be worth examining whether he could do what he claimed to be doing out on the balcony without wearing his prosthetic legs. It would be a big blow to his story if it was proved he could not carry the fan, or reach the blinds to close them or something like that.

A few thoughts on this (just me speaking as a single trans-tibial amputee):

Pistorius has been without lower legs since being a young child, so I would not be surprised that while prosthetics were normal for him for good mobility and he is obvious very adept in using them, he probably also has a deal of experience of getting about at times without them and he's had since early childhood to learn that skill (and learning such motor skills as a child places you at a functional advantage to someone that acquires the same limb disability later in life).

Sometimes you just couldn't be bothered putting prosthetics on for short range trips, especially when you expect to be flopping back into bed in a minute or two. e.g. for me if I realise after getting into bed that I've left the outside light on, I won't bother putting my leg on, I'll grab my crutches and hop up to go and turn the light off before flopping back into bed. So I can easily see another amputee not bothering with prosthetics if they know they are capable of achieving their expected task relatively easily.

He may well be capable of walking around on his knees in some fashion and performing some actions - at least that way you have free hands to carry something (I have no idea if that's actually the case with Pistorius, but as I said above, when you learn a way to move about as a child, you likely retain that skill).

So, I don't think it can be so easily discounted as a reasonable possibility for short range minor tasks when you couldn't be bothered to put legs on and have an expectation of going straight back to bed.

 

[blackcat]

so, its ok to kill intruders?

 

[Cloxxki]

Sorry, a bit off-topic.

Knee walking mobility demonstrated by a double amputee.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2Ml-Itw-Js

I tend to think too easily about things, but I'd wear the knee pads, maybe secured from being pulled down (like attached to a belt) and just wheelbarrow run about, dragging the knees. If your house has soft carpet it should be super quick and silent, and you might be able to do without the bulky pads, just a good sock. Outdoors you'll want gloves and it will be noisier depending on surface material of the pads. Or, get really crazy: a couple tiny inline skating wheels along the knees. Those being on the front should not get in the way too much. Wear the wheel units as socks and it's 3 seconds to slip on the pair. If you get real crazy the wheels could be positioned to allow a skating motion of sorts. Of, one-way clutches to be like classic XC skiing with perfect grip? Seems the fit of wheels might be much easier than leg prothetics, but to less leverage and stress.

 

[Ferminal]

so, its ok to kill intruders?

If you have a gun, yes.

 

[mewmewmew13]

the bail decision baffles me.

surely he's going to jail?

and it's only a matter of how long and on what charge? so what's the point in releasing him on bail?

unless there's a law in south africa "you can kill someone and get off scot free if you think they're someone else"

the mistaken target law.

"whoops my bad. i killed your aunt/uncle/dad/daughter/son etc etc, i thought they were someone else"

"hey no worries, it's the south african way!"

i would imagine clear bulletproof doors are all the rage for bathrooms in new houses in south africa right now.

LOL
I don't mean to laugh but what is so funny is that all that you say seems true. Absurd!
Wtf?!

 

[blackcat]

If you have a gun, yes.

what about a cricket bat?

Hansie Cronje's bat

 

[mewmewmew13]

I'm thinking that it's pretty certain that we don't have all the details.

Barring the affidavit describing OP's 'actions' we have been given some information about the actions but pretty sketchy and certainly incomplete.

Some info is incorrect that we've heard and other things are probably not mentioned at all....like blood on cell phones, cricket bat, "fully clothed", etc

..which leaves us surmising at an extreme disadvantage..dammit
I guess we won't hear much more until the trial or whatever the court system is in SA. I've heard that there is no jury ..

 

[AcademyCC]

I'm thinking that it's pretty certain that we don't have all the details.

Barring the affidavit describing OP's 'actions' we have been given some information about the actions but pretty sketchy and certainly incomplete.

Some info is incorrect that we've heard and other things are probably not mentioned at all....like blood on cell phones, cricket bat, "fully clothed", etc

..which leaves us surmising at an extreme disadvantage..dammit
I guess we won't hear much more until the trial or whatever the court system is in SA. I've heard that there is no jury ..

Whats your gut instinct?

 

[alitogata]

what about a cricket bat?

Hansie Cronje's bat

She hold the bat, he got the gun. They quarreled about the ex boyfriend, she told him to split, he slapped her, she got the bat, he took out the gun and shot her. Panicked she locked herself in the bathroom. Getting mad he run after her and shot her three times. Realizing what he have done, he broke the door and get her our.

And now that we finished with all possible turns for this movie scenario, lets go back to facts.. We just don't know what the hell happened there, and as dead people can't talk, we must wait until he decides to tell to the world what really happened. In any case he f@ck up his life and ended hers.

Tragic, sad, stupid story that destroyed the lives of young people..

 

[mewmewmew13]

Whats your gut instinct?

I think they were fighting.
She was fully clothed and it escalated...she ran into the bathroom for safety after he grabbed a gun and started waving it around. He was enraged...shot her thought the door...it all happened quickly from there.

He's guilty as sh!!t and it's domestic violence against women.

I think the fact that it was Valentines Day ...they were originally said to each have separate plans with friends..that changed...
plays into the argument theory also.

as alitogata says above..no facts for us. We're done.

 

[Elagabalus]

A few thoughts on this (just me speaking as a single trans-tibial amputee): ...

So, I don't think it can be so easily discounted as a reasonable possibility for short range minor tasks when you couldn't be bothered to put legs on and have an expectation of going straight back to bed.

Thanks for the reply. I hope I didn't give you the impression that I was discounting it. On the contrary, I think it corroborates some of his testimony. And I imagine that he would have made a lot of noise shuffling that fan around so he would not have heard her get up to go to the bathroom. On the BBC website they mention that he actually brought the fan back inside the room-we'll have to wait for the crime scene photos I guess.

And I must admit, I have a sneaky suspicion that when they reconstitute the bathroom door* and trace the bullet trajectories they will find that he shot upwards from a low position rather than downwards from a high position.

*if they kept all the pieces that is.

 

[alitogata]

I think they were fighting.
She was fully clothed and it escalated...she ran into the bathroom for safety after he grabbed a gun and started waving it around. He was enraged...shot her thought the door...it all happened quickly from there.

He's guilty as sh!!t and it's domestic violence against women.

I think the fact that it was Valentines Day ...they were originally said to each have separate plans with friends..that changed...
plays into the argument theory also.

as alitogata says above..no facts for us. We're done.

I'll play the "psychic" ( in fact no psychic abilities are needed to know these) for a while and I'll make the ultimate prediction.

He will get out of this with not so many consequences because he has a lot of advantages as white, living in South Africa, disable, already "undoubtable" Olympic Medalist, with powerful sponsors beside him, a legal team that rocks etc etc etc.

Either accident during a quarrel, or roid rage, or whatever, he will get away with this.

Of course I don't know if he will manage to get away from the ex boyfriend who I predict will hunt him for the rest of his life...!

The only fact is, that we will never know what really happened there.

 

[ValleyFlowers]

That Cricket Bat

I think they were fighting.

Some gamesmanship from the prosecution during the bail hearing?
They have the defendent on record saying cricket bat was only used to break down a door.

Authorities tell family Steenkamp's skull crushed with cricket bat
"Earlier, a bloodied cricket bat was said to be key evidence. Now, it's said that police have already told Steenkamp's family that Pistorius used that cricket bat to crush her skull before before killing her with a fatal gun shot.

Details of the post-mortem examination of South African model and reality TV star Reeva Steenkamp were withheld during last week’s bail application hearing for Oscar Pistorius. However, grieving relatives who saw her body prior to Tuesday’s cremation in her home city of Port Elizabeth described horrific injuries on her body. Injuries consistent with being hit with a bat were seen, as well as the 9mm entry wounds."

Was the shooting staged to try and cover-up truly horrendous injuries done with the cricket bat?

 

[Cerberus]

Some gamesmanship from the prosecution during the bail hearing?
They have the defendent on record saying cricket bat was only used to break down a door.

Authorities tell family Steenkamp's skull crushed with cricket bat
"Earlier, a bloodied cricket bat was said to be key evidence. Now, it's said that police have already told Steenkamp's family that Pistorius used that cricket bat to crush her skull before before killing her with a fatal gun shot.

Details of the post-mortem examination of South African model and reality TV star Reeva Steenkamp were withheld during last week’s bail application hearing for Oscar Pistorius. However, grieving relatives who saw her body prior to Tuesday’s cremation in her home city of Port Elizabeth described horrific injuries on her body. Injuries consistent with being hit with a bat were seen, as well as the 9mm entry wounds."

Was the shooting staged to try and cover-up truly horrendous injuries done with the cricket bat?

The victim, (according to the Autopsy as relayed by the defence) appears to have no injuries save for the gunshot wounds, I thing we can assume that his story is accurate at least on the point of the bat. You can't really cover up bat injuries with any firearm caliber smaller than cannon.

 

[Mad Elephant Man]

A few thoughts on this (just me speaking as a single trans-tibial amputee):

Pistorius has been without lower legs since being a young child, so I would not be surprised that while prosthetics were normal for him for good mobility and he is obvious very adept in using them, he probably also has a deal of experience of getting about at times without them and he's had since early childhood to learn that skill (and learning such motor skills as a child places you at a functional advantage to someone that acquires the same limb disability later in life).

Sometimes you just couldn't be bothered putting prosthetics on for short range trips, especially when you expect to be flopping back into bed in a minute or two. e.g. for me if I realise after getting into bed that I've left the outside light on, I won't bother putting my leg on, I'll grab my crutches and hop up to go and turn the light off before flopping back into bed. So I can easily see another amputee not bothering with prosthetics if they know they are capable of achieving their expected task relatively easily.

He may well be capable of walking around on his knees in some fashion and performing some actions - at least that way you have free hands to carry something (I have no idea if that's actually the case with Pistorius, but as I said above, when you learn a way to move about as a child, you likely retain that skill).

So, I don't think it can be so easily discounted as a reasonable possibility for short range minor tasks when you couldn't be bothered to put legs on and have an expectation of going straight back to bed.

To make myself completely clear, I think it is highly likely he can do the tasks he was claiming to be doing without his prosthetic legs on. I was just suggesting it might be worth while checking if he had been completely stupid and was suggesting he was going to do something that he was incapable of doing.

 

[Mad Elephant Man]

Thanks for the reply. I hope I didn't give you the impression that I was discounting it. On the contrary, I think it corroborates some of his testimony. And I imagine that he would have made a lot of noise shuffling that fan around so he would not have heard her get up to go to the bathroom. On the BBC website they mention that he actually brought the fan back inside the room-we'll have to wait for the crime scene photos I guess.

And I must admit, I have a sneaky suspicion that when they reconstitute the bathroom door* and trace the bullet trajectories they will find that he shot upwards from a low position rather than downwards from a high position.

*if they kept all the pieces that is.

Just because the fan was inside after he shot her does not mean he brought inside. It could have been inside all along.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

He carried her downstairs because she hadn't expired yet and the security guard was coming up the road to his house.

This is what strikes me as (possibly) the most bizarre. I mean, why would you want to move a very badly injured human being unless there was some immediate danger of fire, or some sort of danger of a (very fiery) explosion?

This is just common sense to anyone these days. Basic First Aid - learn it, learn to LOVE IT!

(Otherwise, the fecking lawyers will be after you if you care to be a "Good Samaritan" in the States, anyway, and you end up doing it all wrong.)

 

[Tricycle Rider]

This is what strikes me as (possibly) the most bizarre. I mean, why would you want to move a very badly injured human being unless there was some immediate danger of fire, or some sort of danger of a (very fiery) explosion?

This is just common sense to anyone these days. Basic First Aid - learn it, learn to LOVE IT!

(Otherwise, the fecking lawyers will be after you if you care to be a "Good Samaritan" in the States, anyway, and you end up doing it all wrong.)

Actually, having said this...

Is it not possible OP had caused her death by having her all moved around by himself?

 

[skippy]

This whole thread speculation is ridiculous !

With the announcement that the brother is facing a trial for a car accident that killed a young woman on a motorcycle , we have to ask " What is the quality of the Media Reporting in South Africa "?

How is it the Local Media did not vent this Info during the past week or so ?

Can anyone believe that the brother appearing in the Courtroom , did not trigger speculation , as to his difficulties ?

We , the public , are not seeing anything other than what the BOTH Sides want seen at this time !

The Magistrate took 2hrs plus of CYA time on friday , it could be the Brother's quandry was known to him , thus the need to be so explicity in citing articles of Law and previous precedent ?

Let's hope that the Media move on to more important issues like Gun Control in S.A. & USA . Of course the Media can look at the London Paralympics and give their attention to the OTHER Gold , Silver & Bronze Medalists , even if they ignore ALL the other Paralympians who GAVE UP SO MUCH TO COMPETE there !

 

[peterst6906]

Is it not possible OP had caused her death by having her all moved around by himself?

No, he caused her death by shooting her.

Whether moving her contributed to a faster demise is something the autopsy will show and if so, I'm sure that will be presented at trial.

But her death wasn't caused by moving her around. If he hasn't shot her in the first place, she wouldn't have died.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

No, he caused her death by shooting her.

Whether moving her contributed to a faster demise is something the autopsy will show and if so, I'm sure that will be presented at trial.

But her death wasn't caused by moving her around. If he hasn't shot her in the first place, she wouldn't have died.

I understand what you are saying.

However, as the prosecutor, wouldn't you want to puncture as many holes into OP's inner tubes as possible?

 

[wirral]

Has there been any mention of phone records, either incoming or outgoing? Often girls in fights with their boyfriend or with some other guy on the side head to the toilet to make phone calls or send texts.

 

[blackcat]

This whole thread speculation is ridiculous !

With the announcement that the brother is facing a trial for a car accident that killed a young woman on a motorcycle , we have to ask " What is the quality of the Media Reporting in South Africa "?

How is it the Local Media did not vent this Info during the past week or so ?

Can anyone believe that the brother appearing in the Courtroom , did not trigger speculation , as to his difficulties ?

We , the public , are not seeing anything other than what the BOTH Sides want seen at this time !

The Magistrate took 2hrs plus of CYA time on friday , it could be the Brother's quandry was known to him , thus the need to be so explicity in citing articles of Law and previous precedent ?

Let's hope that the Media move on to more important issues like Gun Control in S.A. & USA . Of course the Media can look at the London Paralympics and give their attention to the OTHER Gold , Silver & Bronze Medalists , even if they ignore ALL the other Paralympians who GAVE UP SO MUCH TO COMPETE there !

Madelaine McCann,

Young... white... attractive... female

olympic athlete
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome

 

[del1962]

I see WADA may look at his medals if anything about Steroids comes out of the trial.