paper tiger masquerading as a truth banner.

Page 2 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Oct 25, 2010
3,049
2
0
blackcat said:
is white the fall guy for vaughters?

did vaughters hand the day to day running of the team to white so he could stay clean whilst his riders worked with pepi marti and del moral?

what has he got to hide?
I think White voluntarily took a bullet for something that was about to break. It was a strategic move, not a tactical one.

JV is "spinally challenged"

 
Jul 29, 2010
431
0
0
The 500K is ridiculous.

Garmin might own a final month's salary, but the decision to go to Pega-not was Lowe's. It seems like the 500K is designed to cover the fact that Lowe is unemployed for the 2011 season. That isn't Vaughters fault or problem.

Lowe needs to learn real quick there is an 'omerta' in this sport. Spitting in the soup is not encouraged -- and so I gotta believe BLACKMAILING your team director for a half million dollars is probably looked upon as a no-no :rolleyes:
 
Oct 25, 2009
344
0
0
euanli said:
Chances are we will hear nothing from Lowe. At the moment its wise to keep schtum because of the negotiations and now it is likely that any settlement will include an NDA.
..... apart from keeping schtum he needs a good hard nosed lawyer. Not sure it is smart, as appears to be the case, to let yourself be guided by an academic pushing a particular barrow when there are so many issues at stake.
 
Jun 18, 2009
374
0
0
I think doctor's referrals is not the real issue. 500,000 euros means something more. Hardie's presence makes me doubt the blackmail angle- likely to be a letter of demand or without prejudice offer.

So- assuming, it's pure, pigheaded, criminal blackmail- then JV, release the emails. If it's not, and communications from Lowe are privileged (and appropriate), Slipstream has some explaining to do. Defamation, so uncool.

C'mon JV- you raised the issue. Release Lowe's emails. Put your money where your mouth is.
 
Oct 25, 2010
3,049
2
0
And what of Dr. Steffan? He's reviewing his team's medical records, right? That's his job AS the approved team doctor. You don't think he'd recognize the name of his FORMER COLLEAGUE on USPS? Perhaps he'd care to know what other doctors out there in the world are treating his cyclists.

Steffen cried "doping foul" when USPS fired him. So one hard-to-believe thing was in the story (Vaughters)... Now there's two.
 
Aug 13, 2009
12,855
0
0
There are a lot of talk back and forth.

-JV says that Lowe, and maybe Hardie, tried to extort 500,000.
-Landis insinuates that JV runs a dirty team and that he could expose him but will not.


two pretty large accusations, the kind that you better not make unless you can back it up. Floyd's creditability would be seriously damaged if he is not able to support his accusation. It would play into the whole "crazy, angry, drunk" narrative that Armstrong is trying to spin.
 
Oct 25, 2010
3,049
2
0
Runitout said:
Hardie's presence makes me doubt the blackmail angle- likely to be a letter of demand or without prejudice offer.
My take too. I think JV is just peeved that an atty is trying to get his client paid. I think the client isn't about to be called dirty without taking the curtain with him. But somehow a private settlement discussion went awry. And it sounds like JV's the one who had the tantrum (doh!).
 
Jan 15, 2011
52
0
0
Hawaiian shirt says

From today's Sydney Morning Herald -

"Lowe sees lawyer over team's claims. Rupert Guinness. January 27, 2011
AUSTRALIAN rider Trent Lowe and his key adviser are expected to meet lawyers today before responding to allegations by his former American Garmin-Cervelo team that he threatened to go public about a visit to a doctor who had not been approved by its medical staff."
 
BotanyBay said:
And what of Dr. Steffan? He's reviewing his team's medical records, right? That's his job AS the approved team doctor. You don't think he'd recognize the name of his FORMER COLLEAGUE on USPS? Perhaps he'd care to know what other doctors out there in the world are treating his cyclists.

Steffen cried "doping foul" when USPS fired him. So one hard-to-believe thing was in the story (Vaughters)... Now there's two.
So much for transparency.

"The PDF attachment was a copy of Trent's UCI quarterly health check blood test conducted in June 2009 and it contained the name of Dr. Luis Garcia del Moral in the letterhead of the results. Neither Dr. Steffen nor Jonathan Vaughters noticed del Moral's name on the letterhead in June 2009 and, at the time, neither Dr. Steffen nor Vaughters were aware that Trent had visited del Moral."

Who in the world is going to believe this? A health check with Dr. Moral's name on it back in June of 2009 and no one noticed?
 
Jun 16, 2009
3,035
0
0
I for one believe it. Prior to a few days ago, how much scruitiny would you honestly apply to a test result that is allowed to be ontained from any registered doctor on the planet? Would you really go over every single detail on such a piece of paper? Would you have a list of doctors on a checklist?

or would you say, "yep its here the results are okay and the document is offical?" Its a health test which is a very different thing to a test.

I'm not saying that a doctor shouldn't pay attention to these documents - in fact they definitely SHOULD. Just that I understand how it probably happened.
 
Mar 18, 2009
14,634
1
0
Martin318is said:
I for one believe it. Prior to a few days ago, how much scruitiny would you honestly apply to a test result that is allowed to be ontained from any registered doctor on the planet? Would you really go over every single detail on such a piece of paper? Would you have a list of doctors on a checklist?

or would you say, "yep its here the results are okay and the document is offical?" Its a health test which is a very different thing to a test.

I'm not saying that a doctor shouldn't pay attention to these documents - in fact they definitely SHOULD. Just that I understand how it probably happened.
These things might be like Office Space's TPS reports.
 
Sep 30, 2010
107
1
0
I can't buy the whole, 'we missed it' thing. Why have information sent through and collected if nobody is going to check through it?
Maybe I could doctor my own palmares and get a ride with them?

It's a daft attempt at an explanation.
 
Feb 21, 2010
1,007
0
0
Martin318is said:
I for one believe it. Prior to a few days ago, how much scruitiny would you honestly apply to a test result that is allowed to be ontained from any registered doctor on the planet? Would you really go over every single detail on such a piece of paper? Would you have a list of doctors on a checklist?

or would you say, "yep its here the results are okay and the document is offical?" Its a health test which is a very different thing to a test.

I'm not saying that a doctor shouldn't pay attention to these documents - in fact they definitely SHOULD. Just that I understand how it probably happened.
Wait, first it was a V02 Max test, now its a UCI Health Check (blood panel?)...

Those are terrifically different things.

In the initial response, JV states that at first White told him he took his wife and kid to Del Moral. Was this some kind of excuse? Or that he considered it no big deal to bring Lowe there, as he'd already taken his family there.

My understanding is the lab clinic is called Performa, not necessarily a place for wives and babies.

All the simplest excuses and way to handle this are totally muddied because JV babbles whatever rattles in his head.

If this was quite easy to explain, then it would appear that way and the result would be a sufficient response that clearly shows all the steps, errors, and a commitment to fixing it for the future. Ridding themselves of White (right or wrong) and them not renewing Lowe make it look like so much more.
 
Jun 16, 2009
3,035
0
0
My understanding was that the White dismissal was for getting Moral to do a V02 test on Loewe when he wasn't approved by the team. It was after that that the team eventually found out that the first referal to the doctor was for a UCI health check.

Whether there would be any record of the V02 test is pretty obvious, the debate is more centred around why the team didn't notice Moral was being used for the health checks first.
 
Martin318is said:
My understanding was that the White dismissal was for getting Moral to do a V02 test on Loewe when he wasn't approved by the team. It was after that that the team eventually found out that the first referal to the doctor was for a UCI health check.

Whether there would be any record of the V02 test is pretty obvious, the debate is more centred around why the team didn't notice Moral was being used for the health checks first.
The health check happened 2 months after the VO2 test. Also there is no proof that Lowe actually met del Moral for the health check. Only that the health check was done at his clinic.
 
Oct 25, 2010
3,049
2
0
Berzin said:
So much for transparency.

"The PDF attachment was a copy of Trent's UCI quarterly health check blood test conducted in June 2009 and it contained the name of Dr. Luis Garcia del Moral in the letterhead of the results. Neither Dr. Steffen nor Jonathan Vaughters noticed del Moral's name on the letterhead in June 2009 and, at the time, neither Dr. Steffen nor Vaughters were aware that Trent had visited del Moral."

Who in the world is going to believe this? A health check with Dr. Moral's name on it back in June of 2009 and no one noticed?
It is totally absurd, and I'm insulted that JV expects anyone to believe it. He's almost as delusional as McQuaid.
 
Oct 25, 2010
3,049
2
0
Colm.Murphy said:
In the initial response, JV states that at first White told him he took his wife and kid to Del Moral. Was this some kind of excuse? Or that he considered it no big deal to bring Lowe there, as he'd already taken his family there.
Have a look at Google maps and see how close Girona (slipstream HQ) is to Valencia (Performa HQ). They're not close at all. One probably needs to fly to go to Valencia from Girona.
 
Dec 21, 2010
513
0
0
BotanyBay said:
Have a look at Google maps and see how close Girona (slipstream HQ) is to Valencia (Performa HQ). They're not close at all. One probably needs to fly to go to Valencia from Girona.
One comment from Matt White was that Trent Lowe was living in Valencia, not Girona, and that was the reason he sent him to Performa for the test.
 
Oct 25, 2010
3,049
2
0
GreasyMonkey said:
One comment from Matt White was that Trent Lowe was living in Valencia, not Girona, and that was the reason he sent him to Performa for the test.
"sent him" to Performa, or that was his usual place? Why choose Valencia when the rest of your team is based in the same country?

Hypothesis: There was no way to stop Lowe from ratting-out the rest of the team, as JV either ain't into being shaken-down, or he doesn't have the $500K. So instead, come-up with a good story to try and get ahead of the bad press. Manage the situation. White was leaving anyway. My guess? They paid White a "consulting fee" to take the PR hit to his reputation. That way, Lowe is the dirty doper who blackmails his boss instead of the guy who was doing exactly what JV had expected to do. Only he got caught.

They just didn't count on people actually being smart.

Another observation from JV's rebuttal:
It's simply that the rider, of his own volition, can go to any clinic and he simply gives them a list of different elements that need to be tested for in his blood that is required by the UCI - that clinic then sends those results to the rider and then he would send those to [Slipstream Sports doctor] Prentice Steffen and Prentice then sends it onto the UCI.
So basically, the UCI accepts blood profile records that obviously have a "suspect chain of custody". So all one needs to do is alter their results, get a doc's signature, and the profiles are sent to Geneva. Nice. Really vigilant UCI. So basically, they just exposed the farce that is the UCI anti-doping program.
 
Jul 14, 2009
2,499
0
0
Dear riders..here are a list of doctors you can visit within our plan. These doctors will notify the team pre and post appointment and understand the strict rules we have on courses of treatment that are acceptable for our team. We understand that situations will arise that require you to be treated by doctors outside the list, these exception will be emergency visit and case were you are located outside a range that would make treatment by one of the listed doctors impractical. In those rare cases you need to do the following. Call the team manager,business manager and your regular team doctor. After those calls are made and bidirectional communication is made the regular team doctor will consult with a qualified provider to ensure that practices acceptable to the team and compliant with pro cycling are adhered to for reasons of team integrity and purpose.Your appointment with an outside doctor will be authorized and confirmed by the teams medical management. We realize these extra procedures are difficult but are seen as necessary.

If for any reason if you feel that you have any fatigue syndromes or are in need of a result so you can get signed to an Australian upstart squad..don't get a ref from a walkie talkie talker team director for a doctor outside our group or you will be fired and any other numbskull involved will also be dismissed..I hope that clear JV
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS