paper tiger masquerading as a truth banner.

[dbrower]

The absence of response fom Lowe and Hardie might mean they are working on their own spin, or it might mean they are giving Vaughters a lot of rope before dropping the platform out from underneath him.

-dB

 

[BotanyBay]

The absence of response fom Lowe and Hardie might mean they are working on their own spin, or it might mean they are giving Vaughters a lot of rope before dropping the platform out from underneath him.

-dB

I think this will all get quietly settled and "go away". By now, sponsors are calling JV and either pressuring him to come up with the cash to make Lowe go away, or offering to pay for it themselves. They're ****ed, but want it to go away. And it will.

 

[NashbarShorts]

At most he will pay Lowe his final month's salary from 2010. This is small time news, I doubt it is even on the radar at Garmin corporate. What leverage does he have here? He tried blackmailing 500K on news that he used Moral for a physical, news which JV pre-empting by going public with. The dude has no leverage unless there is another bomb he is waiting to drop. I say at most he gets final month's salary. If I was JV, I would not even give that, as a final tweak to a POS blackmailer-wannabe.

 

[Martin318is]

The absence of response fom Lowe and Hardie might mean they are working on their own spin, or it might mean they are giving Vaughters a lot of rope before dropping the platform out from underneath him.

-dB

Do you really think that JV would be keeping this going by talking openly in the media if he remotely thought there was anything that Loewe had that would cause him trouble? Its actualyl pretty clear that JV has gone public on something really minor in order to take all potential negative sting out of it if someone else published it first. I don't believe that Loewe has anything else.

 

[blackcat]

I see it like this:

1. Lowe may have been fired for an unknown number of reasons, but two of them were a) his "moonlighting" with Pegasus and b) seeing the dodgy Doc in violation of contract, though I think this latter did not come up initially.

the moonlighting is BS. JV sent Contador Felts before the 2009 Tour.
Lots more information will play out I forsee.

2. Lowe appoints Hardie who responds to each of the unknown reasons and concludes that with a settlement offer. We don't know how he responded to the moonlighting thing but to Lowe's seeing the dodgy doc, he presents the PDF, saying you had notice of this and you said nada at the time.

seems only a tad mealy mouthed with pursuit of Contador and Dekker methinks

3. Vaughters has to fire White as a matter of principle over the dodgy doc.

JV is the master of narrative. Should be working on K Street.

4. Hardie's offer to Slipstream is $500,000 which would be calculated to cover a number of aspects of the damages alleged by Lowe.

ambit claim, lets see how it plays out when it goes to trial.

5. Slipstream decides to put the story out there, probably omitting that one of the reasons it fired Lowe was because of the visit to the dodgy doc.

more like they were not ready to play their hand at once. Drip feed.

 

[blackcat]

Wait, first it was a V02 Max test, now its a UCI Health Check (blood panel?)...

Those are terrifically different things.

In the initial response, JV states that at first White told him he took his wife and kid to Del Moral. Was this some kind of excuse? Or that he considered it no big deal to bring Lowe there, as he'd already taken his family there.

My understanding is the lab clinic is called Performa, not necessarily a place for wives and babies.

All the simplest excuses and way to handle this are totally muddied because JV babbles whatever rattles in his head.

If this was quite easy to explain, then it would appear that way and the result would be a sufficient response that clearly shows all the steps, errors, and a commitment to fixing it for the future. Ridding themselves of White (right or wrong) and them not renewing Lowe make it look like so much more.

wanna ask Whitey if he took his wife Del Moral in 2000 before the Sydney Olympics?

 

[Ferminal]

wanna ask Whitey if he took his wife Del Moral in 2000 before the Sydney Olympics?

Haha, Del Moral can't help you keep your feet on the ground!

 

[blackcat]

And... Del Moral of the story is Ferminal?

 

[BroDeal]

From the new info in the FLandis-Kimmage transcript I think we can safely say that Vaughters has sold out--if he ever had something to sell out in the first place. He is officially part of the problem. He is now the peloton's consigliere who gives advice on how to maintain omerta.

 

[Ferminal]

And... Del Moral of the story is Ferminal?

Dope in race walking guarantees nothing?

 

[ingsve]

From the new info in the FLandis-Kimmage transcript I think we can safely say that Vaughters has sold out--if he ever had something to sell out in the first place. He is officially part of the problem. He is now the peloton's consigliere who gives advice on how to maintain omerta.

Well, it's clear that JV has his own view on how to best combat doping in the sport and he feels that airing everything out in the media is not constructive. I'm not sure I agree with that completely but I can at least understand the position. While it does go in line with Omerta as far as the media goes, I'm still not convinced that JV is dishonest in his efforts to clean up the sport. I think he is sincere but his methods are not the methods that the fans would want.

 

[BroDeal]

Well, it's clear that JV has his own view on how to best combat doping in the sport and he feels that airing everything out in the media is not constructive. I'm not sure I agree with that completely but I can at least understand the position. While it does go in line with Omerta as far as the media goes, I'm still not convinced that JV is dishonest in his efforts to clean up the sport. I think he is sincere but his methods are not the methods that the fans would want.

So what is the difference between Vaughters and McQuaid? They both want to handle problems in secret. Someone who embarrasses cycling or just p!sses off the wrong person will be quietly kicked to the curb by backchannel warnings and threats unless he is popular enough that it will cost the sport money. Decisions will be made in a smoky backroom by the same bunch of fat old men, now with counsel from one skinny guy in a turtle neck. The only difference I see is that Vaughters gets to stick his snout in the trough.

 

[ingsve]

So what is the difference between Vaughters and McQuaid? They both want to handle problems in secret. Someone who embarrasses cycling or just p!sses off the wrong person will be quietly kicked to the curb by backchannel warnings and threats unless he is popular enough that it will cost the sport money. Decisions will be made in a smoky backroom by the same bunch of fat old men, now with counsel from one skinny guy in a turtle neck. The only difference I see is that Vaughters gets to stick his snout in the trough.

I get your point. Though the diffrence to me is that McQuaid seems to go to extreme lengths to keep people from talking while I have a hard time seeing Vaughters doing anything substantial to keep others from talking other than sharing his opinion. I'm also not convinced that McQuaid is interested in cleaning up the sport as long as the image of the sport gets cleaner. I believe Vaughters does want the sport to actually get cleaner but he's simply using an unfortunate tactic that plays into the hands of the UCI.

 

[BroDeal]

I get your point. Though the diffrence to me is that McQuaid seems to go to extreme lengths to keep people from talking while I have a hard time seeing Vaughters doing anything substantial to keep others from talking other than sharing his opinion. I'm also not convinced that McQuaid is interested in cleaning up the sport as long as the image of the sport gets cleaner. I believe Vaughters does want the sport to actually get cleaner but he's simply using an unfortunate tactic that plays into the hands of the UCI.

I think 131313 put it well when he wrote that JV has moved into the territory of "go along to get along."

 

[TexPat]

So what is the difference between Vaughters and McQuaid? They both want to handle problems in secret. Someone who embarrasses cycling or just p!sses off the wrong person will be quietly kicked to the curb by backchannel warnings and threats unless he is popular enough that it will cost the sport money. Decisions will be made in a smoky backroom by the same bunch of fat old men, now with counsel from one skinny guy in a turtle neck. The only difference I see is that Vaughters gets to stick his snout in the trough.

Precisely.

I think 131313 put it well when he wrote that JV has moved into the territory of "go along to get along."

Which is why he should not be involved in the process. Pure complicity.

 

[ingsve]

I think 131313 put it well when he wrote that JV has moved into the territory of "go along to get along."

Well, that's certainly part of his motivation for sticking with his current tactic rather than going down the Kimmage/Landis route.

A slight problem I have however is that people now seem to think that the "go along to get along" attitude must mean that Slipstream is dirtier than the dirtiest which I think can't be further from the truth. I think that JV is doing a good job with keeping his own team clean and he should get some credit for that and the only parts that they should be critized for is the silent approach.

 

[TexPat]

Well, that's certainly part of his motivation for sticking with his current tactic rather than going down the Kimmage/Landis route.

A slight problem I have however is that people now seem to think that the "go along to get along" attitude must mean that Slipstream is dirtier than the dirtiest which I think can't be further from the truth. I think that JV is doing a good job with keeping his own team clean and he should get some credit for that and the only parts that they should be critized for is the silent approach.

Slipstream may be clean. They've certainly gone to some length to create the image as a clean team.
Perhaps they are trying to make amends at past errors. The fact is that there are some questionable associations and obfuscations which make it easy for the cynics to levy doubt.

 

[Benotti69]

Slipstream may be clean. They've certainly gone to some length to create the image as a clean team.
Perhaps they are trying to make amends at past errors. The fact is that there are some questionable associations and obfuscations which make it easy for the cynics to levy doubt.

+1

there are questions that need to be answered if JV wants to keep blowing his trumpet as the leading cleanest of the clean team ever.

 

[thehog]

Hincapie is rolling out the standard quotes:

“I haven’t spoken to him recently,” Hincapie said. “He just had a baby, so obviously I say congratulations. He’s got a growing family and is obviously very busy with his foundation and with racing and I really hope that he’s doing well right now and it looks like he is.”

“I think if you ask anybody that’s close to me, they’ll all say that I’m a good person and that I have a good character and at the end of the day, my family and close friends are what matter to me,” he said. “If they were to say I was a bad person or had a bad character, then that would affect me. But the other stuff [media and internet speculation], I’m not going to let that affect me.”


http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/hincapie-unsure-of-long-term-impact-of-doping-controversy

 

[Benotti69]

Hincapie is rolling out the standard quotes:

“I haven’t spoken to him recently,” Hincapie said. “He just had a baby, so obviously I say congratulations. He’s got a growing family and is obviously very busy with his foundation and with racing and I really hope that he’s doing well right now and it looks like he is.”

“I think if you ask anybody that’s close to me, they’ll all say that I’m a good person and that I have a good character and at the end of the day, my family and close friends are what matter to me,” he said. “If they were to say I was a bad person or had a bad character, then that would affect me. But the other stuff [media and internet speculation], I’m not going to let that affect me.”

was he dying to say i'm too nice and done too much good for this crock of sh!te

 

[thehog]

was he dying to say i'm too nice and done too much good for this crock of sh!te

That’s what he’s saying. At least Floyd can say he doped but is a nice guy. George wants everyone to know he’s a nice guy but doesn’t want to say that he doped.

The hypocrisy of it all.

 

[veganrob]

That’s what he’s saying. At least Floyd can say he doped but is a nice guy. George wants everyone to know he’s a nice guy but doesn’t want to say that he doped.

The hypocrisy of it all.

That's what I got out of it.

 

[Benotti69]

the difference in all this is these guys Hincapie, Barry, Zabriskie and JV know what's coming and can prepare for it, ie put money away for rainy days in Europe or Switzerland and have something to fall back on after the dust has settled, should they be victims of the investigation

 

[fatandfast]

the difference in all this is these guys Hincapie, Barry, Zabriskie and JV know what's coming and can prepare for it, ie put money away for rainy days in Europe or Switzerland and have something to fall back on after the dust has settled, should they be victims of the investigation

the bigger difference is none of these other guys decided to go down the do or die legal path to hold on to a prize achieved on fraud. If all the riders here criticized for acting differently from the Landis example, they are praised by even more from learning a lesson from history. If you don't want to hold on to your money,family,future and dignity by all means adopt the Landis method of problem solving. Logic and history dictate that doing everything different from Landis while not a sure thing is still a better bet than accepting his path.

 

[Benotti69]

the bigger difference is none of these other guys decided to go down the do or die legal path to hold on to a prize achieved on fraud. If all the riders here criticized for acting differently from the Landis example, they are praised by even more from learning a lesson from history. If you don't want to hold on to your money,family,future and dignity by all means adopt the Landis method of problem solving. Logic and history dictate that doing everything different from Landis while not a sure thing is still a better bet than accepting his path.

well i bet most of these guys are ruing not getting in touch with Landis and helping through it to keep him onside with the omerta as his actions may yet bring down their houses, defo their reputations.