Papp you are a damn Joke!

[offbyone]

yep i dont equate someone taking heroin in the same manner as epo, and i personally prefer the term PED, but it seemed PED had become the standard on here till the recent threads about Joseph Papp being a 'drug dealer' as posters it appeared wanted to paint him as someone destroying the life's of kids on smack, crack etc..

I follow you, I guess doper is the preferred term in my book.

By the way Jonathan Chodroff who just got nailed in the Papp case was pretty much a kid. He was only 21 years old when he bought the goods from Papp.

 

[Benotti69]

Well, last time I checked, PED stood for Performance Enhancing Drug...

really, but when you take away the PE it conjures something far sinister .

While PED use is criminal in a real and sporting sense it is not in the same league (yet anyway) as crack, smack or coke.....

 

[Mambo95]

yep i dont equate someone taking heroin in the same manner as epo, and i personally prefer the term PED, but it seemed PED had become the standard on here till the recent threads about Joseph Papp being a 'drug dealer' as posters it appeared wanted to paint him as someone destroying the life's of kids on smack, crack etc..

He's pleaded guilt in a court of law to selling illegal drugs. That makes him a drug dealer. Sure, he's not Pablo Escobar, and certainly not as bad as guys pushing heroin to kids. But he's still a drug dealer. Ferrari is a drug dealer, Fuente is a drug dealer and Joe Papp is a drug dealer.

 

[jimmypop]

The primary logical fallacy in the OP is proof that some individuals are too stupid to even be at the table for the discussion.

 

[NashbarShorts]

When I read (but no longer do so) Joe Papp's tweets and other statements to press, they sound genuinely self serving.
It is the right thing to do to come clean and make amends for past failures. But Papp (very much like Landis) seems fixated on seeing others fess up too. All you can control in life is your OWN actions. In the attempt to take responsibility for our actions, mixing it with "others have done it too and need to admit it", only serves to confuse one's OWN responsibility and that of OTHERS. Joe and Floyd - focus on your self - let others face their own personal and public judgements.

Joe is from Pittsburgh. As a fellow Pittsburgher, let me tell you -- yeah, Pittsburgh is small-time. (Except for dem Steelers!! )

Joe also was never on the radar of the top domestic cycling teams. He got into pro cycling through the back door -- div. 3 and 4 European team and lots and lots of PEDs.

So is this small-town, small-timer loving his time in the white hot spotlight? Sure. But who cares. Do you have a problem w/ the truth, or w/ Papp's ego?

As for Floyd, it seems he could give a rat's anus whether anyone else fesses up. Seems to me he simply decided it was no longer a good life decision to fall on his sword while jokers like Lance skated and made millions.

I mean the man only lost his house, wife, and livelihood. I guess your prescription would have been that Floyd just quietly go to therapy and above all else -- KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT. ????

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Joe is from Pittsburgh. As a fellow Pittsburgher, let me tell you -- yeah, Pittsburgh is small-time. (Except for dem Steelers!! )

Joe also was never on the radar of the top domestic cycling teams. He got into pro cycling through the back door -- div. 3 and 4 European team and lots and lots of PEDs.

So is this small-town, small-timer loving his time in the white hot spotlight? Sure. But who cares. Do you have a problem w/ the truth, or w/ Papp's ego?

As for Floyd, it seems he could give a rat's anus whether anyone else fesses up. Seems to me he simply decided it was no longer a good life decision to fall on his sword while jokers like Lance skated and made millions.

I mean the man only lost his house, wife, and livelihood. I guess your prescription would have been that Floyd just quietly go to therapy and above all else -- KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT. ????

I have nothing to add other than the suggestion that people read Nashbar's excellent post again.

 

[flicker]

Granted, the man's not perfect (or at least hasn't been). But I suspect that he does know what he's talking about, and that if he now wants to act "for the good" (whatever his motives) we should appreciate that.

Yeah I saw that movie too. The one where Tony Montana takes out his cocaine partners one by one. I love the part in Scarface where Tony Montana shoots his brother in law in the gut at point blank range. Real class acts Joe Papp and Tony Montana.

 

[flicker]

Cycling is a very homogeneous sport in America. Think about it this way-the Americans that went to Europe to race in 1993-94, supposedly the vanguard of a new generation with Armstrong and Hincapie, all have dirt that either has been or will be uncovered.

Consider the list-Zabriskie, Van De Velde, Andreu, Hamilton, Landis, etc. There isn't an American rider who rode in Europe in the last 15 years who wasn't or isn't implicated in some type of doping scandal.

In other words, there isn't another American rider after Lemond who found any type of success in Europe clean. And now with the Joe Papp list out, it seems the local scene was and is just as putrid.

So who can American amateur cyclists and enthusiasts look up to in their sport? Who can they pass on their unrealistic athletic aspirations onto? Who can they look in the mirror and say "yes, he is just like me, only better"? Who can they desire their sons to grow up like?

The fanboy's desire to drag down those who are providing information are engaging in a cynical and pathetic attempt at reworking reality based on the dreams and desires they couldn't achieve themselves. They figure, if not me, then Armstrong. Because he looks like me and represents everything about America that made it great.

He is the yuppie superhero, the corporate Juggernaught who kicks *** and takes names. The Ari Gold of the cycling world.

He isn't just good, nor just great-he is transcendent. And our heroes must be bigger than life. We demand nothing less from them.

This pack of disillusioned fanboys who vicariously live through Armstrong have, in their impotent rage, only internet forums to vent their hostility. So they come here like yakking hyenas and spew their disingenuous bile, because here they find an audience that doesn't exist in the real world.

In the real world of cycling people don't give a hoot about doping. That is what it is doping. A great tradition of our sport. In the real world of non fanboys who like to see an American do well in cycling they do not give a hoot either if it is leipheimer zabrinzkie hamilton MY LORD LANCE ARMSTRONG.I have not heard one American badmouth IBAN MAYO PANTINI ULRICH VINO etc People just want to see gladiators on 2 wheels. It is spectacle pure and simple. Same as our sports here baseball and american football. All entertainment. US cyclists could never compete until real coaches like Eddy B. introduced US cyclists to the gear. Leveled the playing field and made it possible for American cyclists to compete against the top European cyclists who wear also on the gear. As far as Papp goes, just another small fish caught up in the burning ring of fire, er drug scandal. Joe is a small fish just let him blog on like the rest of us.

 

[SpeedWay]

Just a small point but it has not been made yet.

Who makes the best gamekeepers? Poachers

Who runs AA? Alchoholics.

Who runs NA? Drug addicts

Do you see where I am going with this? If you want to stop something you ask the people who have first hand knowledge. Heck even prisoners are used to try and keep youngsters from offending.

Good on you Joe and Floyd!

Great gig if you can get it. Definitely dulls the sword of Damocles, for a while at least. You might want to charge the batteries for your flashlight though. Those who have "first hand knowledge" are still living the life many footprints ahead of the snitches. No one gets out of here alive no matter how many deals, illegal or legal, they've done.

 

[NashbarShorts]

Flicker, I used to like Phil Liggett, 'til a couple of yrs ago when I heard a radio interview he did. In it, he said that cycling fans honestly don't care about doping -- they love their riders and they love the spectacle. That was the EXACT moment in time when my opinion of Liggs changed and I lost ALL respect for him.

You may not think cycling fans "care", but don't we have a right to know?

I have a good friend who is a journalist who also covers cycling. Your attitude reminds me of his. He LOVES the sport (or so he says). If I email him about a doping issue, he will not respond. If I call him and try to bring it up in conversation, he will quickly get very angry. He told me once that he doesn't want to talk w/ me anymore b/c I am "ruining his enjoyment of the sport." As for the Lance investigation, he seems VERY uninformed of the details, and simply told me he is "not impressed" by the govt's. investigation.

So let me ask you....does this sound like a guy who "doesn't care", or simply a guy who prefers to bury his head in the sand??

It is like the wife who remains willfully ignornat of her husband's affairs. Its not that she doesn't CARE -- its just that she doesn't want TO KNOW. As for me, I'll always want to know. There are many other fans who feel the same. Pls don't speak for all of us!

(PS: There was one US cyclist who was able to compete quite well in Europe pre-Eddy B. Actually 2 if you count Jock Boyer.)

 

[Anonymous]

Great gig if you can get it. Definitely dulls the sword of Damocles, for a while at least. You might want to charge the batteries for your flashlight though. Those who have "first hand knowledge" are still living the life many footprints ahead of the snitches. No one gets out of here alive no matter how many deals, illegal or legal, they've done.

The threat of the sword in not its sharpness, because even a dull sword can kill you if the hair breaks. The sword still hangs, therefore your summation only partially explains the actions of the criminal.

I would suggest that the motivation of any person on any given subject intermingles self-serving motives with some altruism. I would think that this is true even in the case of Armstrong.

 

[Darryl Webster]

US cyclists could never compete until real coaches like Eddy B. introduced US cyclists to the gear. Leveled the playing field and made it possible for American cyclists to compete against the top European cyclists who wear also on the gear. us.

So Flicker, you think encouraging ( some might sugest pressuring ) and no doupt providing the means, for members of the 84 US Olympic team to blood dope, including the very dangerous practice of using somone elses blood, make Eddy B some kind of hero of American cycling based on your premise that top Europeans were doping?

You realy are one of the most ethicly and moraly bankrupt peeps I`ve ever seen post on any cycling forum.
Probably the kinda guy that would , as history shows, sit on the fence when the Nazi`s started WW2 , waiting to see which side to support was in there best interests.
Utterly contemptable.

 

[flicker]

So Flicker, you think encouraging ( some might sugest pressuring ) and no doupt providing the means, for members of the 84 US Olympic team to blood dope, including the very dangerous practice of using somone elses blood, make Eddy B some kind of hero of American cycling based on your premise that top Europeans were doping?

You realy are one of the most ethicly and moraly bankrupt peeps I`ve ever seen post on any cycling forum.
Probably the kinda guy that would , as history shows, sit on the fence when the Nazi`s started WW2 , waiting to see which side to support was in there best interests.
Utterly contemptable.

Darryl I do not watch the Olympics anymore. They are morally corrupt for many reasons. My guess is that EPO and homogolous blood doping is safe when sanitary medically supervised and monitored by Doctors and one cannot be competetive in pro stage races without participating in said practice. You know darn well that the reason Americans were able to move up the international ranks was to follow standard European training and medical procedures. Also in my estimation Alexi Grewal is a puke.

I do not advocate any type of cheating. I am just stating fact of life. That is reality in cycling.

For your information my grandfathers faught in WWll on the allied side.