Paris - Nice 2021, March 7 - March 14

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Red Rick

Red Rick

Feb 20, 2012
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Simurgh said:
My dislike of Roglic is nearing the dislike I had for peak Froome. Yeah its a sport, no gifts or mercy is to be expected, I get it. But there is something called good taste. It seems clear to me that he could have caught Mäder whenever he liked, but just toyed with everyone else. In two weeks he will have forgotten all about this minor victory, whereas Mäder would most likely treasure it for the rest of his life.

Emotions aside: While there is an argument that last year's Tour supposedly taught Roglic a lesson, I fail to see that lesson applied. He is riding the exact same way that lost him the Tour last year - temporiding by super-domestiques (which unlike SKY doesn't shed the peloton, but merely discourage attacking) and attacking 1½ km from the finish to gain 10-20 seconds. Lucky for him, he has no equal at this race. But against more serious competition he is only a midrange (not even long-range is necessary) attack by another S-tier rider from losing another Tour.
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What's Roglic supposed to learn? Never underestimate Pogacar again? What else?

He attacked an easy MTF from 3km out and locked up the GC there with no ITTs to go, now he wins the stage his team did a lot of work for.

But literally only Roglic gets criticized every time he wins because he "didn't learn the lesson".
 
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Luthor

Dec 9, 2019
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If Mader worked for Roglic and actually help him, I would understand letting him win. But Roglic used both his super domestiques in order to catch up and had to attack twice. Makes no sense to waste Bennett and Kruijswijk's efforts. Obviously Kruijswijk asked Roglic if he wants to go for the stage and then he went to increase the pace.

If TJV went just for GC, Bennett's pace would've been enough at that point. It's not like TJV is liked anyway, same as DQS, those who win often aren't very liked(remember Asgreen who screwed VDP).
 
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titan31

Jul 13, 2012
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Gregor_Slovenia said:
Help you, wtf? Haven't you ever watch cycling race? You win a race if you have legs for it (also Tour), and not if you have blabla team and so on.
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Ya, I remember Tiralongo helping Contador at Fuente De. I remember Win van Huffel, Garate and Ardila winning Savoldelli the Giro on the Finestre Sestriere stage.

It's good to have friends in the peleton on other teams. If it comes to the Tour and Pogacar has attacked Roglic and the Jumbo team have disappeared but Mader and Landa are there for Bahrain, I can't see them being too interested in helping Roglic if there's nothing in it for them on the day.
 
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Speadge

Nov 7, 2020
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At least people won't complain next time that he won solely beause of some Mader from the other team helped him :p
I mean no matter what Roglic do or don't do there's always bunch of people complaining.
titan31 said:
Ya, I remember Tiralongo helping Contador at Fuente De. I remember Win van Huffel, Garate and Ardila winning Savoldelli the Giro on the Finestre Sestriere stage.

It's good to have friends in the peleton on other teams. If it comes to the Tour and Pogacar has attacked Roglic and the Jumbo team have disappeared but Mader and Landa are there for Bahrain, I can't see them being too interested in helping Roglic if there's nothing in it for them on the day.
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nilfen

nilfen

Jul 10, 2012
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Simurgh said:
My dislike of Roglic is nearing the dislike I had for peak Froome. Yeah its a sport, no gifts or mercy is to be expected, I get it. But there is something called good taste. It seems clear to me that he could have caught Mäder whenever he liked, but just toyed with everyone else. In two weeks he will have forgotten all about this minor victory, whereas Mäder would most likely treasure it for the rest of his life.

Emotions aside: While there is an argument that last year's Tour supposedly taught Roglic a lesson, I fail to see that lesson applied. He is riding the exact same way that lost him the Tour last year - temporiding by super-domestiques (which unlike SKY doesn't shed the peloton, but merely discourage attacking) and attacking 1½ km from the finish to gain 10-20 seconds. Lucky for him, he has no equal at this race. But against more serious competition he is only a midrange (not even long-range is necessary) attack by another S-tier rider from losing another Tour.
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Ask the betting companies what they think about "good taste". I know I would have been quite upset if I had put money on Roglic but he gifted the victory away - no more sports betting!

;-) In the end, if sport is about gifting victories, we might as well watch wrestling
 
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chinaski

Sep 6, 2019
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Libertine Seguros said:
It's useful to have allies, you never know when you might need them. Gifting Tiralongo that win at Macugnaga was very useful for Contador in the long run, for example. Valverde practically stopped to honour his deal with Sylwester Szmyd on Ventoux, because the deal was that if they had enough time for Valverde to get the jersey he'd give Szmyd the stage - and in the end his lead wasn't that big and it could have cost him on the Saint-François-Longchamp stage, but he would rather risk that than become known within the péloton as somebody who won't honour a deal. And I can't tell you anything about most of Jalabert's stage wins at the '95 Vuelta, but I can tell you all about the Bert Dietz stage.
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On the other side, there was no deal between Roglic and Mader...
 
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Carols

Carols

Mar 20, 2010
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jaylew said:
True, but those guys aren't the level of what we've got at TA. It would have been fun to see him mixing it up for the win in all the stages we've seen already (except maybe stage 1).
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As I said before: They saw he was racing and decided to go elsewhere :wink::wink::wink:

Seriously though. it will happen sometime during the season. He needed to add PN to his palmares and trophy cabinet. The Trident is already there.
 
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Netserk

Netserk

Apr 30, 2011
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roundabout said:
I get no gifts, the team worked and so on, but that was an easy chance to gain favor with Bahrain. Who knows if their help could be useful when there would bigger things at play than a Paris-Nice stage win.
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Agreed.

Generosity can also be self-serving (but is not always the case), and in this very instance where nothing is owed to Mäder, generosity would give credit in the karma bank (which matters in a cooperative sport). But from a sporting perspective, it can only be justified if Roglič (and/or team management) deem it in their own overall self-interest, as there was no moral obligation to gift the win (edited to add: but there is always a ((small)) moral obligation to win).
 
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Luthor

Dec 9, 2019
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1370756165362126855
View: https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1370756165362126855

New record for the climb. I know it was tailwind and help but probably he still had some left in the tank. I kinda wish he would've attacked earlier so all this Gino drama wouldn't happen.

Speadge said:
At least people won't complain next time that he won solely beause of some Mader from the other team helped him :p
I mean no matter what Roglic do or don't do there's always bunch of people complaining.
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Some people complained for days that Movistar pulled for 30s on Covatilla even though they also had Mas to pull through. Guess what, they are the same people who complain today. You wouldn't see them complain if it was Schachmann at the end.
 
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WKA311

WKA311

Oct 5, 2011
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Actually impressed by Schachmanns climbing level. He looked far better than last year and it's only his first race of the season. Even being the only one to go with one of those Roglsstomps for a while. His good base level helps him but I thought he might lose some time against the pure climbers like Vlasov, Hamilton or Martin.

Good to see him back at his best after the crash at Lombardia basically destroyed his goals last year.
 
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B

Bonimenier

BANNED
Apr 1, 2019
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WKA311 said:
Actually impressed by Schachmanns climbing level. He looked far better than last year and it's only his first race of the season. Even being the only one to go with one of those Roglsstomps for a while. His good base level helps him but I thought he might lose some time against the pure climbers like Vlasov, Hamilton or Martin.

Good to see him back at his best after the crash at Lombardia basically destroyed his goals last year.
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He looks better than last year? He was 2nd in Algarve and won PN.
 
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jmdirt

Dec 6, 2013
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I'll never understand the 'gifting wins' crap. I didn't kill myself day in and day out to give other guys wins. This is the fn top of the sport not the city fun ride (not that you'd see gifting there:). Race to win!

I know that there were gestures in cycling history, but IMO the current gifting mentality came about because of a period in cycling when gifts kept people quiet.
 
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