Paula Radcliffe Speaks out

[Ragerod]

If one were to take as a fact that white women have a disadvantage on the marathon over East-Africans, then Radcliffe must not only have been doping, but make Armstrong seem like a choir boy. At least white males are considered to be fast over a 3-week race. Radcliffe is in such a league of her own...

One could also say white females have an advantage in marathoning, and Radcliffe was the only to have really bothered to try her best, leaving a gap like that to the next white female.

Just because she's white doesn't mean a damn thing.

One could also say that Bolt must be on a super drug because tall people generally don't make good sprinters. The same could be said for Jonathan Edwards because the majority of world class triple jumpers are black but he's comfortably the best of all-time.

 

[slowspoke]

I know Dr. Müller-Wohlfahrt well and and I knew very well along that Radcliffe was going to him. He is the Bayern Munich and Germany doctor. He is on the bench for all their games and is seen going on the pitch treating the players. Why is it that everyone who works with him from various sports have no problem in talking about him publicly? The Everton manager David Moyes publicly said as soon as the Bayern Munich semi-final was over against R.Madrid he was sending Jack Rodwell to him to get treated as he has had serious problems with injuries. Is Jack Rodwell a doper now? Just this week I seen Usain Bolt's coach say on Sky Sports News television that Bolt was going to see him this week before the Olympics. Paula Radcliffe even left a reporter into on of the treatment sessions with him. She has no problem in highlighting the fact she has worked with him for years.



Crikey she has even been seen publicly with him posing for photos.

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/1129/rotl_e_radcliffe-and-hans01jr_600.jpg

And your point about all athletes who go to doctors are dopers is frankly rubbish. What about Dr. Richard Steadman? Manchester United and Alex Ferguson have mentioned that they sent Van Nistelrooy and Hargreaves to him for treatment. Lots of other clubs and athletes in various sports have no problem in publicly mentioning a link with him also. He is well respected in sport medicine.

Wow all these athletes and sports people I have mentioned do a great job in hiding their doping.

fantastic response. Now could you just point me to the scientific research that
homeopathic treatments and injections of goat blood improve athletic performance, I'll be a bit less doubious.

Thanks,

Slowspoke

 

[armchairclimber]

http://youtu.be/Ln5QgeCL1fs

Just substitute the word "indian" with the word "doping/doper".


Mo Farah ...doping

Paula Radcliffe ... doping

Daniel Radxliffe...definitely doping

 

[Cloxxki]

Just because she's white doesn't mean a damn thing.

One could also say that Bolt must be on a super drug because tall people generally don't make good sprinters. The same could be said for Jonathan Edwards because the majority of world class triple jumpers are black but he's comfortably the best of all-time.

I am not so sure white people are all that disadvantage by genetic make-up, it takes all kinds, we're not clones. Radcliffe is no-one's clone, she's different. Extremely smart for a top athlete. There are house docs running A limits, but she's no-one dummy, a bit of a Gebrselassie I suppose.

In case of tall people, they are to much drafted for volleyball/basketball I think. Various sports with money to be made if you're tall. I as an arm chair scientist and active track runner am pretty sure that being taller, but proportionate, is an advantage for speed. Compare house cats and chaatahs. The cheetah may weigh a dozen times more than the kitty, not sure, and the scale difference is thus greater than between world class human sprinter, but the difference is simple there. An equally fit larger proportionate house cat will be faster also. Just by a smaller margin. As is Bolt's margin over Gay, only 1.x%. Would Bolt hold his own against a proportionate sprinter from the Avatar movies? 12 foot tall, lean and mean.

I wish Radcliffe had closer peers in the all time lists, to make this less of a brain scratcher. Who knows, she may be a freak like Lemond was, or found a training method that hit a very unique sweet spot for her mind and body. She certainly doesn't seem to be of the donkey to racehorse category. Just wish we could acertain ourselves of her cleanliness, considering the period of her reign.

 

[armchairclimber]

I am not so sure white people are all that disadvantage by genetic make-up, it takes all kinds, we're not clones. Radcliffe is no-one's clone, she's different. Extremely smart for a top athlete. There are house docs running A limits, but she's no-one dummy, a bit of a Gebrselassie I suppose.

In case of tall people, they are to much drafted for volleyball/basketball I think. Various sports with money to be made if you're tall. I as an arm chair scientist and active track runner am pretty sure that being taller, but proportionate, is an advantage for speed. Compare house cats and chaatahs. The cheetah may weigh a dozen times more than the kitty, not sure, and the scale difference is thus greater than between world class human sprinter, but the difference is simple there. An equally fit larger proportionate house cat will be faster also. Just by a smaller margin. As is Bolt's margin over Gay, only 1.x%. Would Bolt hold his own against a proportionate sprinter from the Avatar movies? 12 foot tall, lean and mean.

I wish Radcliffe had closer peers in the all time lists, to make this less of a brain scratcher. Who knows, she may be a freak like Lemond was, or found a training method that hit a very unique sweet spot for her mind and body. She certainly doesn't seem to be of the donkey to racehorse category. Just wish we could acertain ourselves of her cleanliness, considering the period of her reign.

She was exceptional as a junior. I may be wrong but I think she won the World Junior X country champs...televised.

 

[180mmCrank]

I know why people are suspicious.

BUT people here do know that if you have some talent, train hard and pay a lot of attention to the details that you can get very very good at you sport?

Performance gains do not always follow nice neat gradual improvements ... it is quite common for people at any stage of their athletic career to make a step change in performance and it have nothin ot do with doping.

Just because dopers use this (and other excuses) as a justification for performance gains (actually achieved through doping) doesn't mean that you can't make performance gains (through honest means) in this way.

The "we have heard this all before" is not a justification for asigning guilt.

Paula Radcliffe doping?! LOL Not a chance. IMHO.

T

 

[blackcat]

I suggest we produce a definitive list of apologist/trollboy talking points, each labeled with a number. It will make things so much easier. The time to post the above quote will be reduced to the time it takes to write, "Point #6. Point #11." It could even be shortened to, "#6 #11"

very good idea

someone else but me do it

 

[Cloxxki]

very good idea

someone else but me do it

I'd use the list, but will pass on devising it at this stage. Awesome idea. Make it complete, and distribute in the press. They can approach riders, DS's and docs, and just confront them with the opportunity to pick they top 3 or 5 excuses. That really defines them as denier/apologist. Further research could devise profile based on the excuse combinations and statistics.

 

[blackcat]

comes down to folks who have been burnt by the armstrong myth, and seeing sports science research of the power increases in doping in vicinity of 20-25 at most egregious, really dont wanna get burnt by frauds again.

At Olympic levels, cant compete when someone can improve a metric like power by 25% (in a lab), or even VAM on bikes.

And who ever talked about bell curve, and I think then that individual said something like the ignorance of the forum, and invoked high school sportsman.

Well, this is not a very good example, we are talking one bell curve WITHIN THE FAR END OF THE ORIGINAL BELL. It is a micro curve, off far right. And throw in doping advantages of unparalleled significance.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Aaaaand again.

Worrying read. Don't most athletes want a clean sport? It's not normal behaviour to cheat others & yourself.

https://twitter.com/paulajradcliffe/status/370796208367091712

Naive POV at best.

 

[armchairclimber]

Aaaaand again.




Naive POV at best.

You are probably right that it's a naive POV...an innocent POV. I genuinely think that it's her standpoint...she really can't understand why someone would want to cheat. She has been consistent over the years.

She was an outstanding junior and a great competitor, who lacks just one thing (a change of pace). She's at the "least suspicious" end of the Brit athlete continuum.

 

[blackcat]

Aaaaand again.




Naive POV at best.

just a lier. radcliffe is a serious case of fraud.

folks, you are sucked into thinking you know her, and know her motive.

the WR in the marathon? come on, this is not stiff upper lip Gordonstoun work ethic. this is doping. she is competing against a doped field. so she is that much superior? puhleeeeeez

 

[blackcat]

She was an outstanding junior and a great competitor, who lacks just one thing (a change of pace). She's at the "least suspicious" end of the Brit athlete continuum.

absolute zero relevance.

what is relevant, is the field dopes, lets say, gets 5% faster. So she has to get 6% faster if clean? do you really think this is possible? the WR?

And doping and PED (drugs) inandof themself/ves are not bad. this is not an indicator of poor character.

your premise it is an indicator,
doping = poor character,
is fundamentally wrong. and it skews your entire prism with which you view the sport, and will interpret this post, and think of me.

this is wrong. From nigh the birth crib, most in the west will be told the drugs are bad, and then close tangent, that sport drugs are bad. Return to this premise. Are they bad just because someone told you as a child?

You cannot compete at the top level when other athletes who are all off the bell curve and outliers, you cannot compete when they are on drugs and get a 5% boost, when the difference between winning and second in often 0.01%

how can your beat that if a second placed clean competitor, takes a 5% drug?

 

[blackcat]

Unfortunately for Nilsson and others like him all winners are labelled dope cheats. Very sad. It is said that when people can achieve nothing themselves then they put everyone else down. Here we have some prime examples.

you are the one ascribing values to doping. not others. you just would prefer a convenient ignorance.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Healing Hans

Flaco ‏@JonetHernandez 13 Aug
Paula Radcliffe think we forget that she has been a patient of Dr. Muller-Wohlfahrt's for years? Paula don't let the dog bite your ***

Radcliffe, 37, has been a faithful patient since Muller-Wohlfahrt first treated her for a foot stress fracture 17 years ago. Now deep in preparations for the 2012 London Olympics, Radcliffe returned last spring from altitude training in Albuquerque, N.M., complaining of tightness in her lower back and legs. "Not feeling strong," in the words of Muller-Wohlfahrt.

.

http://m.espn.go.com/general/story?storyId=7324261&src=desktop

Usain Bolt is also a patient.

 

[simoni]

World Junior XC champ in 1992 and then a steady rise over the following 10 years before finding her best event to be the marathon.

She hardly came from nowhere.

Consistent anti doping voice.

But since she wins, she dopes. Usual story...

PS I'm a british runner but no particular fan of Radcliffe. But really think people need to move away from the lazy "they win so they must dope" argument. I'm all for debate but its needs to be based on something more concrete than that.

e.g. links to this german doctor, who I know nothing about, are interesting. There might be something there, there might not but either way it should be considered based on what we actually know and, hopefully, can verify.

 

[Briant_Gumble]

I've never heard a tale of a distance runner coming clean and revealing the full extent of their programme like Floyd or Tyler.

What do you think she's on hypothetically.

EPO and blood transfusions would be the main weapons obviously. I don't know if Cortisone, thyroid hormones, HGH, undetectable stimulants would work so well in running.

 

[Cycle Chic]

World Junior XC champ in 1992 and then a steady rise over the following 10 years before finding her best event to be the marathon.

She hardly came from nowhere.

Consistent anti doping voice.

But since she wins, she dopes. Usual story...

e.g. links to this german doctor, who I know nothing about, are interesting. There might be something there, there might not but either way it should be considered based on what we actually know and, hopefully, can verify.

No-one is saying this. But as Blackcat points out - she is competing in a field of dopers so how can a clean runner beat a doped field ?

 

[simoni]

No-one is saying this. But as Blackcat points out - she is competing in a field of dopers so how can a clean runner beat a doped field ?

Marginal gains obviously

 

[mikkemus23]

Does she suffer from bilharzia?

 

[King Boonen]

Almost everything that people point to as an indicator of Froome doping is pretty much the exact opposite for Radcliffe.

From now on I think I'm going to limit myself to actual discussions of evidence, this is just getting silly.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Dr Wohlfahrt

Almost everything that people point to as an indicator of Froome doping is pretty much the exact opposite for Radcliffe...From now on I think I'm going to limit myself to actual discussions of evidence, this is just getting silly.

It does seem against the grain to think Radcliffe is dodgey....but how dodgey is Doctor Muller-Wohlfahrt ?? how dodgey is injecting animals blood ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Wilhelm_Müller-Wohlfahrt

Many of the German doctor's treatments are controversial, including using injections of a substance called Hyalart,[1] extracted from the crest of cockerels, which is claimed to help lubricate knee injuries and take away the pain. He has also injected honey or calves' blood into patients.
Müller-Wohlfahrt's use of homeopathic medicine to treat players is also controversial

Hyalart is easily available at any Mexican pharmacy.

http://www.mexicanpharmacy.com.mx/buy-dermatology/hyalart-hyaluronic-acid-prefilled-syringe/

 

[JimmyFingers]

Is any of that banned? However as a vegetarian that sounds pretty nasty

 

[martinvickers]

It does seem against the grain to think Radcliffe is dodgey....but how dodgey is Doctor Muller-Wohlfahrt ?? how dodgey is injecting animals blood ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Wilhelm_Müller-Wohlfahrt



Hyalart is easily available at any Mexican pharmacy.

http://www.mexicanpharmacy.com.mx/buy-dermatology/hyalart-hyaluronic-acid-prefilled-syringe/

radcliffe is quite open about him, including having interviewers present watching an actual session. What he does seems...quackery, frankly, and I would be unsurprised if he's actually doing something naughty without the athletes being certain what he's doing. Personally, i think it's foolish to have aught to do with him....

BUT...there is a bit of distance between quackery and deliberate cheating.

Apart from that, I'm afraid KBoonen is quite right - when you look at Radcliffe's loud, public, consistent, name-specific and occasionally risky (to herself) stance on anti-doping, a long, long career of consistent improvement and achievement right from juniors...this is exactly the behaviours people demanded of e.g. wiggins, and lost the rag when he doesn't give it.

Yet she does exactly what he was asked to, without even being asked...and to the cynics, its absolutely worthless. Which begs the question why ought Wiggins bother, either...

As to yourself, Boonen? After a while, the conversation in here becomes worthless; it's good for a laugh, or a vent, but it has no value. The best thing, probably, is to see it for what it is, and the posters for what they are, and get on with it - making a difference somewhere where a difference can actually be made.

 

[King Boonen]

It does seem against the grain to think Radcliffe is dodgey....but how dodgey is Doctor Muller-Wohlfahrt ?? how dodgey is injecting animals blood ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Wilhelm_Müller-Wohlfahrt



Hyalart is easily available at any Mexican pharmacy.

http://www.mexicanpharmacy.com.mx/buy-dermatology/hyalart-hyaluronic-acid-prefilled-syringe/

We could make this discussion about evidence and science, then I could participate

I will look up any research on Hyalart I can find this weekend, although I'm not holding out much hope. As for injecting animals blood, I don't believe it is banned, but I'm not sure.

Also, any doctor who uses homeopathy is an idiot who should be avoided.

It's a sad fact that when you get to the top of any research the pool of people is small. The same must be true of doctors in sports and invariably they will have had a link to someone who has been doping if you dig enough. This guy just seems like someone willing to do anything legal to try and get an edge, regardless of if their is proof it will help. Whether that extends into illegal things is another matter.


The point does stand though that almost everything people say indicates Froome is doping is completely the opposite for Radcliffe. Her failure almost all top competitions (one world championships gold, no Olympics medals) also seems to point to someone who is clean for me. Surely she'd dope to wins those if she was doping?