Paula Radcliffe Speaks out

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Re: martyrdom

ebandit said:
........don't worry..........when the truth comes out it will be as good as reading the reasoned decision

for now i'm gonna drown my sorrows in french red...........watching fave durianrider radcliffe videos

on u tube............

Mark L

image.jpg


........a martyr for clean athletes........why? am i a bitter hater.................

And the smoking gun is? A potential few bad blood readings that are speculation (acknowledged there may be an injunction) + a load of non-Brits on here accusing her. Must be doping ....
 
Re: martyrdom

ebandit said:
........don't worry..........when the truth comes out it will be as good as reading the reasoned decision

for now i'm gonna drown my sorrows in french red...........watching fave durianrider radcliffe videos

on u tube............

Mark L

image.jpg


........a martyr for clean athletes........why? am i a bitter hater.................


That picture is not a bad representation. I'm surprised the IAAF didn't go for a independent report like the Lance 6 positives but there you go. I guess they are just warming themselves up for WADA part II :rolleyes:

I have to say I've never seen the Brits so organised. They've managed to infiltrate Sports Adminstration at a high level and declare all sport cleans apart from Russa. That is awesome.
 
Re: martyrdom

thehog said:
ebandit said:
........don't worry..........when the truth comes out it will be as good as reading the reasoned decision

for now i'm gonna drown my sorrows in french red...........watching fave durianrider radcliffe videos

on u tube............

Mark L

image.jpg


........a martyr for clean athletes........why? am i a bitter hater.................


That picture is not a bad representation. I'm surprised the IAAF didn't go for a independent report like the Lance 6 positives from Lance but there you go. I guess they are just warming themselves up for WADA part II :rolleyes:

I have to say I've never seen the Brits so organised. They've managed to infiltrate Sports Adminstration at a high level and declare all sport clean part from Russa. That is awesome.

Not a bad representation of what exactly??? Its a picture of a brit sportswoman from many years back, posted in a cycling forum ...
 
Re: Re:

Brullnux said:
Winterfold said:

Hundreds of athletes accused... One defended.

Who is that one? Paula Radcliffe: good friend of the leader of the IAAF Lord Coe. Yeah, cronyism is definitely not a problem.


This point does resonate. Plenty of miffed Russian athletes. Maybe somebody might wake up CAS, they have some work to do or not.
 
Re: butt hurt

ebandit said:
picture was inspired by sebastiene 1976.............smoking gun? 2.15 for the marathon ............that's

not a small calibre but a a speeding exocet...........even the beeb at the time asked how did she do it?

also ran to.......worlds best........and not just a little better..........1km ahead on marathon times..........and

that's not even considering the disappearing for months to altitude.........dodgy blood values ...that hans

guy.......and mythical tales as to how paula is not like yourself and i.......she does not feel pain

.............right! how hard it will be when she's exposed..............

Mark L

Agreed, the template fits. The only thing I'd add is those who ran 2nd, 3rd etc. fastest times have all since tested positive. Her time is absurdly fast and always away from major championships. Go Paula!
 
Re: butt hurt

thehog said:
ebandit said:
picture was inspired by sebastiene 1976.............smoking gun? 2.15 for the marathon ............that's

not a small calibre but a a speeding exocet...........even the beeb at the time asked how did she do it?

also ran to.......worlds best........and not just a little better..........1km ahead on marathon times..........and

that's not even considering the disappearing for months to altitude.........dodgy blood values ...that hans

guy.......and mythical tales as to how paula is not like yourself and i.......she does not feel pain

.............right! how hard it will be when she's exposed..............

Mark L

Agreed, the template fits. The only thing I'd add is those who ran 2nd, 3rd etc. fastest times have all since tested positive. Her time is absurdly fast and always away from major championships. Go Paula!

Someone has to be best ...
 
Re: butt hurt

TheSpud said:
thehog said:
ebandit said:
picture was inspired by sebastiene 1976.............smoking gun? 2.15 for the marathon ............that's

not a small calibre but a a speeding exocet...........even the beeb at the time asked how did she do it?

also ran to.......worlds best........and not just a little better..........1km ahead on marathon times..........and

that's not even considering the disappearing for months to altitude.........dodgy blood values ...that hans

guy.......and mythical tales as to how paula is not like yourself and i.......she does not feel pain

.............right! how hard it will be when she's exposed..............

Mark L

Agreed, the template fits. The only thing I'd add is those who ran 2nd, 3rd etc. fastest times have all since tested positive. Her time is absurdly fast and always away from major championships. Go Paula!

Someone has to be best ...
So lets get this straight. Your position is that Radcliffe is cleans as well. So all Brits are clean?

I ask because most of the Sky defenders are at least willing to aknowledge there are some British sports stars who dope.

But its interesting if you don't believe any of them are. It means we really do have someone who sees Britain as a race of unbermensch.
 
Re:

Benotti69 said:
The best clean cannot beat dopers......not now and probably not never in endurance sport.
Doesn't even matter if its never or not. Maybe one day the best clean will be able to beat dopers.

Certainly not true for mid 2000's though.

Its really peculiar to me how people balance their logic from accross different sports.

Because if someone actually believes Brailsford, as Spud does, then surely one accepts his own theory that doping was rife in the mid 2000's and that it only became possible to win clean after Brailsford invented marginal gains in 2009.

So how could Paula beat dopers in the early 2000's. Did she invent marginal gains in 2003 :eek:
 
Aug 19, 2015
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Re:

Benotti69 said:
The best clean cannot beat dopers......not now and probably not never in endurance sport.

I tend to believe this, but how can you explain Graeme Obree beating Francesco Moser's (veteran 51.84km) hour record at 52.713 km, using the same type of bike and (crucially) same aero tuck? Additionally, Moser did it at altitude in Mexico, whereas Obree did it in Bordeaux.

Obree competed well in the hour record in the 90s with known dopers Moser and Indurain, despite being sacked from a team for his reluctance to dope. I think this shows, sometimes, that a clean athlete can beat doped athletes.

Of course, the margins in the hour record were very small. He wasn't winning over know dopers by the kind of margin seen in Paula Radcliffe's marathon record.
 
Re: Re:

bikenrrd said:
Benotti69 said:
The best clean cannot beat dopers......not now and probably not never in endurance sport.

I tend to believe this, but how can you explain Graeme Obree beating Francesco Moser's (veteran 51.84km) hour record at 52.713 km, using the same type of bike and (crucially) same aero tuck? Additionally, Moser did it at altitude in Mexico, whereas Obree did it in Bordeaux.

Obree competed well in the hour record in the 90s with known dopers Moser and Indurain, despite being sacked from a team for his reluctance to dope. I think this shows, sometimes, that a clean athlete can beat doped athletes.

Of course, the margins in the hour record were very small. He wasn't winning over know dopers by the kind of margin seen in Paula Radcliffe's marathon record.
and more importantly he wasn't winning over a big statistical sample, since only a handful of people attempt the hour record.
 
May 26, 2010
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Re: Re:

bikenrrd said:
Benotti69 said:
The best clean cannot beat dopers......not now and probably not never in endurance sport.

I tend to believe this, but how can you explain Graeme Obree beating Francesco Moser's (veteran 51.84km) hour record at 52.713 km, using the same type of bike and (crucially) same aero tuck? Additionally, Moser did it at altitude in Mexico, whereas Obree did it in Bordeaux.

Obree competed well in the hour record in the 90s with known dopers Moser and Indurain, despite being sacked from a team for his reluctance to dope. I think this shows, sometimes, that a clean athlete can beat doped athletes.

Of course, the margins in the hour record were very small. He wasn't winning over know dopers by the kind of margin seen in Paula Radcliffe's marathon record.


I cant really. Only a few attempt the hour, as Hitch has noted. Not sure anyone did the Hour at their peak, so
Obree (and Boardman) who was at peak and aerodynamics played such an important part of his attempt.

There are anomalies and maybe Obree was one. People tend believe LeMond was the absolute physical anomaly, but then EPO changed that.

I tend to think that you dont get more than a year or 2 clean in the WT peloton, then you either get on the train of doping or get out. As Obree said in a recent interview, it is like the mafia, they cant have people involved who wont do what they do.
 
Jun 4, 2015
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Obree is probably one of the only examples of this. His use of unique aero positions gave him a level of advantage akin to doping which explains his proximity to people like Indurain. Boardman himself has stated that things were getting far to close to HPV type racing and then the UCI stepped in with their bike rules. The clue is in the title with Moser's veterans' record, he did it long after he had retired from pro racing.
 
Jun 4, 2015
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Re: Re:

Benotti69 said:
bikenrrd said:
Benotti69 said:
The best clean cannot beat dopers......not now and probably not never in endurance sport.

I tend to believe this, but how can you explain Graeme Obree beating Francesco Moser's (veteran 51.84km) hour record at 52.713 km, using the same type of bike and (crucially) same aero tuck? Additionally, Moser did it at altitude in Mexico, whereas Obree did it in Bordeaux.

Obree competed well in the hour record in the 90s with known dopers Moser and Indurain, despite being sacked from a team for his reluctance to dope. I think this shows, sometimes, that a clean athlete can beat doped athletes.

Of course, the margins in the hour record were very small. He wasn't winning over know dopers by the kind of margin seen in Paula Radcliffe's marathon record.


I cant really. Only a few attempt the hour, as Hitch has noted. Not sure anyone did the Hour at their peak, so
Obree (and Boardman) who was at peak and aerodynamics played such an important part of his attempt.

There are anomalies and maybe Obree was one. People tend believe LeMond was the absolute physical anomaly, but then EPO changed that.

I tend to think that you dont get more than a year or 2 clean in the WT peloton, then you either get on the train of doping or get out. As Obree said in a recent interview, it is like the mafia, they cant have people involved who wont do what they do.


That last point is why I think there are very few clean riders. You won't be accepted into an organisation like the pro peloton if you are squeaky clean, you have to have 'dirt on you'. It gives the others a sense of reassurance that you won't rat them out, cos they'll do the same to you. It's called Mutually Assured Destruction and it's why the Omerta is so strong.
 
Back to Paula and I came in from a bike ride yesterday early evening and listened to BBC 5 live which was on. The psychology of the piece on Paula was most interesting.

Youngish female reporter doing the sports. Why is she doing the sports ? She likes sports and sporting matters - but she is a girl. She must like it enough that she accepts the stacked playing field that is "sports reporting is for men" so has to be very motivated. There were not many GB female sports stars that could make the news during the last 2 decades. Of this number that is smaller than a handful, Paula was probably the most high profile, and if you possessed a sense of fair play, undoubtedly her ultimate victory in setting those world records, over "nasty johnny foreigner who, by the way, to all of us who know stuff about sport - dope" would seem like the ultimate in carma. That she never won an Olympic gold just adds, does not take away from, her status as the star to love.

In this piece, the young reporter stated that the IAAF had investigated and the words she used were "the blood test results that some elements of the press had viewed as indicating doping" and found that this was not the case. Therefore there was no evidence of doping was the ultimate conclusion. She then went on to re-iterate Radcliffe's own statement of the day that she had never used doping products. Then there was a bit of background about Paula and Radcliffe said had her life made hell by all them nasty journalists who tried to expose her and then the bit that really got me, they had a clip of Paula stating that she had to take a stand for all the clean athletes out there and was very pleased to be vindicated by the experts at the IAAF.

The final bit was back to the young female journalist who rounded it off with her own personal assertion that this confirmed that Paula Radcliffe had never doped and had never had anything to do with blood doping.

Th final bit was sad, once again a journalist not recognising what their role is. Please report the facts, and, we can take the opinions of the participants, but right now every half wit who gets in front of a microphone thinks they can offer their own personal insight, which undoubtedly in their own opinion matches that of Solomon, to the uninformed and undoubtedly ignorant masses, one step up from the trough of Animal Farm.

I thought about the denial necessary in the construction of that piece. Undoubtedly the journalist would have been exposed to the provenance of the red flags on Puala's data and would know that this was no wild speculation by journalists whose actions she thought to cast in the role of the worst excesses of the British tabloids. So why didn't she state that the data was viewed by world leaders in the analysis of the blood passport and the data was from a time when dopers were not yet privy to this form of analysis and therefore not managing their test data to give simulated conformity ? She need not have gone that far, but at least giving the fact that some experts had viewed the data and come to alternative conclusions would have given balance, rather than falsely stating the source of the analysis was by dodgy journalists.

Perhaps it is because acceptance that Paula may have doped was going to be,for her, just like it is for an earlier generation, the thought of Alan Wells or others having gone full bore to beat them Ruskies or Americans, taking out two blocks at a time from the bottom of life's Jenga tower - too much to even contemplate. Everything she had built her dream career on would have been based on lies. That journalist was trapped and a victim of the omerta every bit as much as the young lad deciding whether to dope with the best or return back from the continent as a cyclist who couldn't make the grade.

But in the scheme of things, who are the real villains ? OK Lance is a scum bag. Paula stating she "had to do it for all the clean athletes out there" is just too preposterous for words. She is becoming a parody of herself - that quote is on a par with - Lance "I am the most tested athlete on the planet". The pathetic reporting just like the pathetic response of the kid saying, "ok, how much do I take and how often", cannot be condoned, but right now, the people who should be in the frame are the guys at the top. They get the big bucks for shouldering the responsibility. D i c k Pound summed up the situation at the IAAF nicely the other day. "It is a betrayal of what people in charge of the sport should be doing."

Hein and Pat were obvious. Liame D i c k will probably trump Blatter in the rather full annals of sporting corruption. But what of the ones that follow. Coe ran the ethics committee at the IAAF, for years, that should have provided the check and balance to Liame D i c k and wound back his excesses. Cookson was at the UCI for years - when did he ever ask Hein and Pat to explain about the cheque Lance sent in to help with the fight against doping ? Has he a single item on record of ever holding one of that pair to account, before those not in positions of responsibility in the sport took them down ? What Cookson does have on record is employing at the heart of the BC organisation Lance's soigneur and dope transporter's co driver - ex pro Simon Lilistone and keeping him employed and silent whist the story broke of the dope running for Lance. That story broke in late 2003 early 2004. Plenty of time for a person or principle to stand up, even if they are a bit slow witted. Why wouldn't you stand up. Why wouldn't you confront Liame D i c k ? If not then, just how much corruption has to go on before these guys get off their backsides and rock the corrupt craft they were sailing in ?

Coe has eventually relinquished his Nike role. It was outstanding arrogance by Coe to say there was no conflict of interest. That action now, just like his past failure to run the ethics committee so that it looked to manage the ethics at the IAAF, marks his competency. Sadly both he and Cookson are proving, by their own actions, that both are unlikely to have the character to be able to enact the changes needed.

Just as that young female reporter was duped into building her life structure based on a fictional story, reported without check or balance, so, unless there is major change, will another generation of young boys and girls, be duped. I wonder if the old men, unfit for their roles, at the top of sport ever contemplate that ?

"It is a betrayal of what people in charge of the sport should be doing." Well said Mr Pound.
 
Re: butt hurt

The Hitch said:
TheSpud said:
thehog said:
ebandit said:
picture was inspired by sebastiene 1976.............smoking gun? 2.15 for the marathon ............that's

not a small calibre but a a speeding exocet...........even the beeb at the time asked how did she do it?

also ran to.......worlds best........and not just a little better..........1km ahead on marathon times..........and

that's not even considering the disappearing for months to altitude.........dodgy blood values ...that hans

guy.......and mythical tales as to how paula is not like yourself and i.......she does not feel pain

.............right! how hard it will be when she's exposed..............

Mark L

Agreed, the template fits. The only thing I'd add is those who ran 2nd, 3rd etc. fastest times have all since tested positive. Her time is absurdly fast and always away from major championships. Go Paula!

Someone has to be best ...
So lets get this straight. Your position is that Radcliffe is cleans as well. So all Brits are clean?

I ask because most of the Sky defenders are at least willing to aknowledge there are some British sports stars who dope.

But its interesting if you don't believe any of them are. It means we really do have someone who sees Britain as a race of unbermensch.

Where did i say that? I just said someone has to be best.

As for Radcliffe - I dont know. I dont follow marathon running closely - I seem to remember she did it with pace makers in London (which is a fast course). I dont know enough about who else ran what in which year on which course.

As for do some brits dope? Well yes they do - Dwain Chambers being an example (his book is quite good).
 
Having just written that I am reminded of a line in the ~Sweeney.

Coe cannot recognise the conflict of interest of him holding a Nike ambassadorial role for over £100,000 per year whilst Nike are embroiled in the IAAFs award of the World Champs, prior to any other city's getting their bids in. And Coe is in charge of the Ethics committee at the IAAF, responsible for looking out for infractions in ethics within the IAAF and advising expert opinion on such issues. They guy in charge of looking for, finding and advising, cannot recognise infractions if they run him over with a national news report.

Back to the Sweeney - ok fiction but written after much research and many off the record interviews. In the very corrupt Met of the time, inspector Reegan is having a bust up with his superior about a another inspector wanting to keep Reegan out of a certain crime investigation. The response from Reegan is along the lines of "he couldn't find an Irishman in a Shamrock club". (note for non-Brits and younger readers - the contemporary backdrop was the IRA terror bombing campaign.)

Cookson and Coe looking for doping infractions. "In your cycling career Mr Wiggins, have you ever come across someone using PEDs, can you name that person to me so I can investigate them ?

"Nope, I can't think of anyone I know, but I have heard that round the corner there was someone once who......."

And now springing into my mind are all those pictures of Sir Brad's invited guests at his hour record all socialising together, a "Shamrock Club" if ever there was one.
 
Re:

Freddythefrog said:
Having just written that I am reminded of a line in the ~Sweeney.

Coe cannot recognise the conflict of interest of him holding a Nike ambassadorial role for over £100,000 per year whilst Nike are embroiled in the IAAFs award of the World Champs, prior to any other city's getting their bids in. And Coe is in charge of the Ethics committee at the IAAF, responsible for looking out for infractions in ethics within the IAAF and advising expert opinion on such issues. They guy in charge of looking for, finding and advising, cannot recognise infractions if they run him over with a national news report.

Back to the Sweeney - ok fiction but written after much research and many off the record interviews. In the very corrupt Met of the time, inspector Reegan is having a bust up with his superior about a another inspector wanting to keep Reegan out of a certain crime investigation. The response from Reegan is along the lines of "he couldn't find an Irishman in a Shamrock club". (note for non-Brits and younger readers - the contemporary backdrop was the IRA terror bombing campaign.)

Cookson and Coe looking for doping infractions. "In your cycling career Mr Wiggins, have you ever come across someone using PEDs, can you name that person to me so I can investigate them ?

"Nope, I can't think of anyone I know, but I have heard that round the corner there was someone once who......."

And now springing into my mind are all those pictures of Sir Brad's invited guests at his hour record all socialising together, a "Shamrock Club" if ever there was one.

Good old Regan.
 
Re:

Dear Wiggo said:
When vociferous fans cannot even follow basic patterns from the very recent past it's no wonder people like Radcliffe get support

https://twitter.com/Swift__Girl/status/670660861145518080



CU7fyhzVEAA07u1.png:large
Just read over that exchange. That Chris Lambert guy has no clue, the swift_girl has caught on, she just needs to realise that she's got evidence already with Radcliffe smashing everyone at the height of blood doping.
 
Re: Re:

42x16ss said:
Dear Wiggo said:
When vociferous fans cannot even follow basic patterns from the very recent past it's no wonder people like Radcliffe get support

https://twitter.com/Swift__Girl/status/670660861145518080



CU7fyhzVEAA07u1.png:large
Just read over that exchange. That Chris Lambert guy has no clue, the swift_girl has caught on, she just needs to realise that she's got evidence already with Radcliffe smashing everyone at the height of blood doping.

I think she doesn't want to antagonize the trolls by suggesting its obvious PR dopes so prefers to stay close to a neutral line
 
Re:

Dear Wiggo said:
I have no problem with stating facts and letting people decide for themselves.

What constitutes evidence? It's a concept many don't understand very well. Evidence takes on many forms and it's not always a positive test. Not sure what all those "where's the evidence" people don't take the 3abnormal results as a form of evidence?

Who knows.