Pauline Ferrand-Prévot is a French Superstar

[theyoungest]

I can't agree with you. But even if we say we agree: it completely distracts from the topic. It doesn't matter why one of the riders said something. The topic is too serious for that. And it's definitely an important issue. Weight often plays a role in sport. Unfortunately, it also often makes people ill. And what the Tour winner did is not healthy. This can have serious consequences, especially for women who are thinking about having children. That's why you shouldn't distract from the issue. The signal is: do the external like the Tour winner. It can bring success and it is “normal”. It is not. Especially as many people don't have the support or can't manage the diet temporarily.

Of course, this also happens in men's sport. Weight is also important for mountain bikers. A stage winner from the actual TDF is certainly also in the critical range. In general, however, other types of riders are currently in the lead among men and the issue is probably not quite as big.

It does matter why the competitors say this. Of course it does. Reusser is openly saying she hoped PFP wouldn't win the Tour! You can't simply separate that type of pettiness from the message she's purportedly trying to bring across, a message which is all the more hypocritical consering her own weight loss.

You have these two taller than average cyclists (Vollering and Reusser) who will in a professionalizing women's peloton have difficulties trying to follow the smaller riders on climbs. That's only normal. You don't hear Ellen van Dijk complaining about these pesky climbers with their unhealthy diets.

To say that what PFP did is not healthy is a very dangerous statement, since you don't actually know what she did, how she did it, how much weight she lost, how it was monitored... you only know that she looks rather skinny. To say that this sets the wrong example for regular people is similarly pointless. It's not advisable for a regular person to suddenly ride a mountainous nine day stage race either.

 

[Netserk]

And what the Tour winner did is not healthy.

I don't believe that you know it so. That is, that it was any more unhealthy than what is ordinary for professional riders.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Don't let these sore losers get to you, PFP! Typical behaviour in the women's peloton, and I don't like it one bit!

 

[red_flanders]

Yeah this narrative is sure odd to read. Imagine men discussing one another’s weight this way. Crazy. She kicked everyone’s tail. Shut up and ride.

 

[ice&fire]

I disagree. I am certain that PFP lost weight under medical supervision in a controlled manner. So any other rider can do the same until they find their desired weight. I see nothing wrong with Vollering or Reusser's weight as it allows them to achieve high levels of performance. Grace Brown through the Cyclists alliance has put forward some significant proposals to better look after women's health BUT this is being publically in the hubris following the TDF. I'd argue that the issue of weight is greater in the men's peleton and they treat it more seriously than in the women's pelton, however, they don't air their dirty laundry in public. I am yet to see a male rider complain that Pogcar is too skinny!

Anyone can deflect any complain about being too skinny to Valentin Paret-Peintre.

 

[Oldman]

I agree 100% with this. I'm not a woman, but I know plenty of them, and even married one, and this smacks of, as you say, pettiness and jealousy, and one (or several) women trying to bring down a successful woman.

Do weight issues exist in women's sport? Of course they do, and to a greater extent than men's, especially in running. Or just read Jessie Diggins's issues in XC skiing.

But at least PFP was frank about it, which to me indicated that she did it in an intentional, calculated way. I suspect she didn't just stop eating for a month. If she'd just said nothing this wouldn't have even been an issue at all.

Interesting segue to Diggins. My neighbor is a retired XC Pro and former teammate of Diggins. She loves skiing but enjoys other things and I think the training pressure would be something she doesn't miss. When I have the familiarity to ask about her career it would be good to know if there was pressure applied. Not that I'd share something in personal confidence but I guess no one would be surprised if that wasn't a "coaching" tool.
I do recall 2 master's racers with eyes on a National and World title that dabbled in the extreme. Not related to each other or coaches in general but the roadie showed up in the early season, cold-ass rainy stage races with the pros obviously starved down. He had a self-confidence that was completely shattered by the conditions and competition. His "coach" , as he divulged several years later also worked with emerging female talent. That rider learned his lesson but never returned to the level he had prior.
The second was/is a track all-rounder with many titles; both National and Worlds. Track Worlds was pretty much easier than US National level stuff as few attended due to cost and travel. Needless to say he would slim down reasonably to hit the endurance goals necessary to win. He had a good diet of stage races that didn't totally suit him just to get the training. His crit skills were mostly strength over strategy. To his credit and regular success; he ate when he was hungry and stayed a bit hungry when the approaching race needed him to be leaner. Neither of these were pros but the second example was a pro level crit rider for what it's worth.

 

[Unchained]

Don't let these sore losers get to you, PFP! Typical behaviour in the women's peloton, and I don't like it one bit!

Funny how women's cycling with some recent rumbling about each other..
Can't come close to the damage being done in women's tennis were level of everything has you wondering if there is some overall roid rage additive being put in the water supply..
and now they trashed a ball girl.
. Women are all adults, paid to ride in pro peloton,, if you are a sponsor, manager, owner, TV network you can see the tremendous milestones achieved being erased by petty cat fighting,
Saying things that if the individual rider doesn't apologize for.. The team and ownership should immediately, same day ..condemn for lack of professionalism, human decency and lack of sportsmanship in their organization.
Damage might not be immediately apparent but damage has been done.. " we didn't want her to win"" I don't mind losing because I am at a healthy weight " ..ect..
Hard to believe that teams, owners don't have common sense even if riders don't. If I was running a team easy stuff.. If you say something derogatory about someone's weight, body features, skin color, religion, sexuality ..you are immediately suspended from character clause in your contract.. Go home we will call you later..live off savings for a while.

 

[Unchained]

It does matter why the competitors say this. Of course it does. Reusser is openly saying she hoped PFP wouldn't win the Tour! You can't simply separate that type of pettiness from the message she's purportedly trying to bring across, a message which is all the more hypocritical consering her own weight loss.

You have these two taller than average cyclists (Vollering and Reusser) who will in a professionalizing women's peloton have difficulties trying to follow the smaller riders on climbs. That's only normal. You don't hear Ellen van Dijk complaining about these pesky climbers with their unhealthy diets.

To say that what PFP did is not healthy is a very dangerous statement, since you don't actually know what she did, how she did it, how much weight she lost, how it was monitored... you only know that she looks rather skinny. To say that this sets the wrong example for regular people is similarly pointless. It's not advisable for a regular person to suddenly ride a mountainous nine day stage race either.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PXN2qMA5cew


Everything she says, the way she says it sounds reasonable

 

[pastronef]

I wasn't a Vollering fan, I enjoyed Niewiadoma winning the 2024 TDFF. and I'm even less of a fan after this Tour, of both Vollering and Reusser. they got a taste of their own medicine and that's priceless

 

[red_flanders]

She's a big star, she's French, she's an incredible cyclist across disciplines, and she clearly knows how to go after her goals. She's raising the bar for women's cycling.

For sure making it a female identitarian issue is going to lose your sport fans. Oh, let's complain about the really good, really hard-working, really cute woman who just kicked our ass. Not a good look.

Feels fairly WNBA to me...

 

[Oldman]

She's a big star, she's French, she's an incredible cyclist across disciplines, and she clearly knows how to go after her goals. She's raising the bar for women's cycling.

For sure making it a female identitarian issue is going to lose your sport fans. Oh, let's complain about the really good, really hard-working, really cute woman who just kicked our ass. Not a good look.

Feels fairly WNBA to me...

very, very.

 

[SafeBet]

The topic is too serious for that. And it's definitely an important issue. Weight often plays a role in sport. Unfortunately, it also often makes people ill. And what the Tour winner did is not healthy. This can have serious consequences, especially for women who are thinking about having children. That's why you shouldn't distract from the issue. The signal is: do the external like the Tour winner. It can bring success and it is “normal”. It is not.

Professional sport IS NOT normal.
Nothing about it is. Not the diet, not the training volume, not the mental toll, not the injury risk, not the long term impact on the body, not the clinic related stuff. Nothing.

 

[Links2003]

It does matter why the competitors say this. Of course it does. Reusser is openly saying she hoped PFP wouldn't win the Tour! You can't simply separate that type of pettiness from the message she's purportedly trying to bring across, a message which is all the more hypocritical consering her own weight loss.

You have these two taller than average cyclists (Vollering and Reusser) who will in a professionalizing women's peloton have difficulties trying to follow the smaller riders on climbs. That's only normal. You don't hear Ellen van Dijk complaining about these pesky climbers with their unhealthy diets.

To say that what PFP did is not healthy is a very dangerous statement, since you don't actually know what she did, how she did it, how much weight she lost, how it was monitored... you only know that she looks rather skinny. To say that this sets the wrong example for regular people is similarly pointless. It's not advisable for a regular person to suddenly ride a mountainous nine day stage race either.

No, it doesn't matter. Because the issue is far too important and serious. That's why I don't care why they said it. And yes of course if the race had gone differently then maybe they wouldn't have said it. And yet it is important. If not only food is weighed but it is decided whether you eat something based on the measurement of the fat fold. Then that's not a good example. If this is used to win, it not only creates pressure but also reaches non-athletes. Weight is a problem for many people. Especially in sport. And so it creates pressure to have to do the same if you want to be successful. Other sportswomen have also talked about it and the problem also exists in other sports. You have to protect people from themselves.

As someone said here in the thread competitive sport is never healthy. That's true. But that's not the point here. This is about a particularly sensitive topic.

 

[red_flanders]

No, it doesn't matter. Because the issue is far too important and serious. That's why I don't care why they said it. And yes of course if the race had gone differently then maybe they wouldn't have said it. And yet it is important. If not only food is weighed but it is decided whether you eat something based on the measurement of the fat fold. Then that's not a good example. If this is used to win, it not only creates pressure but also reaches non-athletes. Weight is a problem for many people. Especially in sport. And so it creates pressure to have to do the same if you want to be successful. Other sportswomen have also talked about it and the problem also exists in other sports. You have to protect people from themselves.

As someone said here in the thread competitive sport is never healthy. That's true. But that's not the point here. This is about a particularly sensitive topic.

This all seems wildly off base.

There was no “issue” until some of her competitors made it a public discussion. Zero women would have been affected by PFP’s training habits, because no one was paying one iota of attention to them. Until the complaints started.

Yep, she’s putting pressure on others by upping her performance. Welcome to sports. Welcome to life.

 

[KOM]

Uhm apparently I got breaking news for some of you... professional sports and that goes especially for extreme endurance sports such as, you know, road cycling... IS NOT HEALTHY... never was, never will be... so that whole argument of Reussers is hypocritical and absurd to begin with.

I understand that there can be nuance to this, such as certain practices being more dangerous/unhealthy than others, but theres no need to even go there, imo in this instance.

 

[Oldman]

I disagree. I am certain that PFP lost weight under medical supervision in a controlled manner. So any other rider can do the same until they find their desired weight. I see nothing wrong with Vollering or Reusser's weight as it allows them to achieve high levels of performance. Grace Brown through the Cyclists alliance has put forward some significant proposals to better look after women's health BUT this is being publically in the hubris following the TDF. I'd argue that the issue of weight is greater in the men's peleton and they treat it more seriously than in the women's pelton, however, they don't air their dirty laundry in public. I am yet to see a male rider complain that Pogcar is too skinny!

+ this add: most egregious abuses of weight control programs have come from team DS/trainers forced on younger riders. Those abusers include male and female influences and some have been called out and removed from sport. It's a real thing; particularly for those younger vulnerable riders trying for their Big Pro Shot. Efforts to promote healthy sport has to start there. Once riders have the information it's up to them to apply it safely and ethically.
As for the Femmes' Tour painfully self-serving critiques by those that didn't stand on the top: they must be absolutely certain they don't have any historical compromises in their own preparation to indict another's actions.

 

[theyoungest]

No, it doesn't matter. Because the issue is far too important and serious. That's why I don't care why they said it. And yes of course if the race had gone differently then maybe they wouldn't have said it. And yet it is important. If not only food is weighed but it is decided whether you eat something based on the measurement of the fat fold. Then that's not a good example. If this is used to win, it not only creates pressure but also reaches non-athletes. Weight is a problem for many people. Especially in sport. And so it creates pressure to have to do the same if you want to be successful. Other sportswomen have also talked about it and the problem also exists in other sports. You have to protect people from themselves.

As someone said here in the thread competitive sport is never healthy. That's true. But that's not the point here. This is about a particularly sensitive topic.

You're responding to gossip and slander, taking it as fact. If this is a particularly sensitive topic, as you say, that's the last thing you would want to do.

For instance, you could also ask: why did Marlen Reusser start the Tour, when she was obviously not healthy and not even able to finish the first stage? Isn't that dangerous, certainly when you know about her problems with long covid just last year? But we don't know the details, so we don't speculate. Neither should we (and more importantly: she) do so about her rival PFP.

 

[Links2003]

You're responding to gossip and slander, taking it as fact. If this is a particularly sensitive topic, as you say, that's the last thing you would want to do.

For instance, you could also ask: why did Marlen Reusser start the Tour, when she was obviously not healthy and not even able to finish the first stage? Isn't that dangerous, certainly when you know about her problems with long covid just last year? But we don't know the details, so we don't speculate. Neither should we (and more importantly: she) do so about her rival PFP.

You have a fair point, I also used an example that I haven't verified myself.

However, it doesn't help to resort to whataboutism – not just from you, but from some of the posts here. Of course, competitive sports are not healthy. And people who criticize others or engage in certain behaviors also make mistakes themselves. But that doesn't mean that the weight issue doesn't exist.

Maybe Pauline is coping well with it and won't suffer any long-term consequences. But she won't know that until much later. Many athletes struggle with weight – even after their careers. There are currently many good stories about this (for example, Rick Zabel in his podcast). And we're not even talking about real health problems. That's why it's important not to talk this issue to death. It's an issue. In many sports. But also for many people. Klara Koppenburg also talked about her example.

And if, as I point out, I haven't checked it myself, Vollering's DS is said to have suggested that weight should be checked because it obviously works and Vollering is responding to it, you can see that it's finding imitators. And at some point, it quickly becomes dangerous. For now, but also later. In other sports, there are even regulations regarding weight. It's not a solution for everything, but it shows that these are serious issues.

 

[Oldman]

You're responding to gossip and slander, taking it as fact. If this is a particularly sensitive topic, as you say, that's the last thing you would want to do.

For instance, you could also ask: why did Marlen Reusser start the Tour, when she was obviously not healthy and not even able to finish the first stage? Isn't that dangerous, certainly when you know about her problems with long covid just last year? But we don't know the details, so we don't speculate. Neither should we (and more importantly: she) do so about her rival PFP.

They start because the get paid to start. If unable to continue they have the medical confirmation to not continue. A rider of her palmares may be eligible for start and appearance bonuses from the race promoter, her sponsors and other marketing initiatives. Race promoters can get very testy when a team's roster that included a World Champ doesn't arrive with that rider. It can get the team docked for cash support if they are major players. The lower tier teams could comment on what they negotiate....

 

[red_flanders]

You have a fair point, I also used an example that I haven't verified myself.

However, it doesn't help to resort to whataboutism – not just from you, but from some of the posts here. Of course, competitive sports are not healthy. And people who criticize others or engage in certain behaviors also make mistakes themselves. But that doesn't mean that the weight issue doesn't exist.

Maybe Pauline is coping well with it and won't suffer any long-term consequences. But she won't know that until much later. Many athletes struggle with weight – even after their careers. There are currently many good stories about this (for example, Rick Zabel in his podcast). And we're not even talking about real health problems. That's why it's important not to talk this issue to death. It's an issue. In many sports. But also for many people. Klara Koppenburg also talked about her example.

And if, as I point out, I haven't checked it myself, Vollering's DS is said to have suggested that weight should be checked because it obviously works and Vollering is responding to it, you can see that it's finding imitators. And at some point, it quickly becomes dangerous. For now, but also later. In other sports, there are even regulations regarding weight. It's not a solution for everything, but it shows that these are serious issues.

If someone wants to talk about issues with weight in pro sports, or women's cycling specifically, more power to them.

The problem...is that a couple of prominent athletes have attached this discussion to...Pauline Ferrand-Prévot, which is lame AF on several levels.

• She's a direct competitor and just beat them. Them complaining about how she beat them...is whiny AF.
• No one would give a flying whoop about this if they didn't attach a superstar rider's name to the "issue". When they did this, they made her the personification of "the problem". Nope. She's just a rider who trained harder than you. Not the standard-bearer for unhealthy dieting.
• They knew no one would give a whoop about it unless they attached her name to it. Clicks for the media, clicks on my whiny diatribe. Lame.
• It makes fans repeat this association with PFP every time the "issue" comes up. Across social platforms. Lame.

If this is such an issue, have a discussion, debate, thread, article, blog post...about the issue. If it's such a big deal, there should be a host of examples other than PFP to cite to make one's point.

But the reality is that it's just sour grapes, and minor-sport-hipster-style infighting. It's 100% bush league nonsense.

 

[Brullnux]

This all seems wildly off base.

There was no “issue” until some of her competitors made it a public discussion. Zero women would have been affected by PFP’s training habits, because no one was paying one iota of attention to them. Until the complaints started.

Yep, she’s putting pressure on others by upping her performance. Welcome to sports. Welcome to life.

I don't think this is necessarily true, or at least it's more or less unverifiable unless you have contacts in and/or work in women's cycling (especially junior women's and girl's cycling).

We know that both girls and young women are more prone than boys and young men to body image issues and eating disorders. We also any female athletes in sports with small or non existent gender gaps have spoken out about the pressure to lose weight, often a pressure that bears no relation to performance but more to an idealiaed aesthetic – someone like Rebecca Adlington springs to mind. PFP had also documented her weight loss journey pretty meticulously, and the media was talking about it and hyping it up before Vollering and Reusser, so I agree it was inflamed by their comments and the issue gained more traction but its false to say nobody noticed or talked about it. Almost everyone was!

Nothing PFP did was particularly unhealthy or disordered. The question is more whether between this and other, very pressing, social pressures, 15-20 year old cyclists especially will try to follow in this sort of crash diet but in a fundamentally disordered and harmful way. Of course to some extent the guys the same age will stick to food plans etc., but it seems deliberately naive to not see the different circumstances and framing between a young male athlete on a 'cut' and a young female athlete trying to lose weight (partly for social reasons, too).

It's a genuine discussion to have within women's cycling, given how much of it is just w/kg, and I think it's unfair to dismiss it just as sour grapes (from Reusser, at least).

 

[theyoungest]

You have a fair point, I also used an example that I haven't verified myself.

However, it doesn't help to resort to whataboutism – not just from you, but from some of the posts here. Of course, competitive sports are not healthy. And people who criticize others or engage in certain behaviors also make mistakes themselves. But that doesn't mean that the weight issue doesn't exist.

Maybe Pauline is coping well with it and won't suffer any long-term consequences. But she won't know that until much later. Many athletes struggle with weight – even after their careers. There are currently many good stories about this (for example, Rick Zabel in his podcast). And we're not even talking about real health problems. That's why it's important not to talk this issue to death. It's an issue. In many sports. But also for many people. Klara Koppenburg also talked about her example.

And if, as I point out, I haven't checked it myself, Vollering's DS is said to have suggested that weight should be checked because it obviously works and Vollering is responding to it, you can see that it's finding imitators. And at some point, it quickly becomes dangerous. For now, but also later. In other sports, there are even regulations regarding weight. It's not a solution for everything, but it shows that these are serious issues.

Weight issues have existed forever in women's cycling. It's nothing new. I'm not saying there should be an omerta around it, but to take the one example of the woman who won the Tour de France, seems to have no physical problems, seems to have no mental health problems, seems to be perfectly fine, as the reason to have this whole discussion about rider weight... if she suddenly fell off her bike in total exhaustion, Vollering and Reusser would have a point. But right now there appears to be absolutely nothing wrong with her. So why cast all these aspersions?

 

[Trakl]

So sour... really curious to see Demi's weight next year before the Tour, when she knows she has to face PFP again.

 

[red_flanders]

I don't think this is necessarily true, or at least it's more or less unverifiable unless you have contacts in and/or work in women's cycling (especially junior women's and girl's cycling).

I'm confident in my point, that no one (figuratively) was paying one whit of attention to PFP's diet until someone started complaining about it, publicly, and calling her out about it.

Which is different than saying there is no issue in the sport.

See how easy it is to conflate an issue with a person? Her name has been indelibly attached to this issue now. By her competitors. I'll say again. Lame.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

So sour... really curious to see Demi's weight next year before the Tour, when she knows she has to face PFP again.

Well, that's kinda part of the problem. The womens' péloton has not had to react to super-peakers for a long, long time, and they're used to knowing the riders who are the top over a set type of terrain, and a whole lot of what they thought they knew just got ripped up by a woman who openly states that she cannot hold that shape and/or form for long. Being smashed to all parts by somebody who you were smashing to all parts in the same terrain a few weeks earlier is not an experience that many of the women have.

And you have to remember that there are very few relics of a pre-biopassport era remaining in the sport. One of the things we were sold on when it was introduced was that, because of the era it came directly after, the biopassport would end super-peaking, so that generation of riders - and fans - have grown up with the implication drilled into them that super-peaking is inherently something to be wary of, and so even if there are no implications that send us directly to the Clinic and the concerns that have been raised so far do not imply that at least outwardly, I feel like this notional and vague idea that super-peaking being inherently suspicious in some way - even if not in that way - also helps colour the riders' reactions.