Pegasus Sports > 'Gillett-Fly-V' > Non existent

[Anonymous]

McEwen - 34 (4th TDU, 1st Trofeo Mallorca, 4th in a Tirreno sprint, 4th in a Giro sprint, 4th in 5 separate Tour stages < SNIP > They have a fair few people who've accumulated points that you'd have forgotten all about or that have picked up the points without ever doing anything memorable.

You have far too much time on your hands, but well done nonetheless

 

[auscyclefan94]

And this is why if CW said the grass was green I would go outside to check. If he doesnt even know the story on australias only pro tour race, how can we trust him about Tirreno adriatico etc. I hope pegasus are at the TDU and it would be idiotic if they are not, but CW needs to learn that sometimes its best to say nothing (yes, just like sky)

I made a mistake saying that. my bad not chris white's as you convienently like to blame him.

McEwen - 34 (4th TDU, 1st Trofeo Mallorca, 4th in a Tirreno sprint, 4th in a Giro sprint, 4th in 5 separate Tour stages, a 1st and a 2nd in Eneco stages, 7th GP Jef Scherens, 2nd Memorial Rik van Steenbergen, 6th GP de Fourmies, 11th Paris-Tours)
Tuft - 108 (8th, Delta Tour Zeeland, national TT, 2nd and a stage in the Tour of Denmark, 5th and a stage at Eneco)
Knees - 121 (11th at Gent-Wevelgem, national RR, 5th in a Tour stage)
Roberts - 188 (5th TDU, 1 stage of Vuelta a Murcía, 5th in a Tour stage)
Cornu - 208 (TT win and 2nd in Ronde van België, 9th in Eneco)
Morajko - 216 (1st Tour of Małopolska, 1st Course de Solidarność, national RR)
Traksel - 274 (1st Kuurne-Bruxelles-Kuurne, 3rd Nokere-Koerse, 3rd Driedaagse van West Vlaanderen)
Hunter - 336 (9th TDU, 2 stage wins in the Vuelta a Murcía, a 3rd in a sprint at Romandie, a 4th in a sprint in California and a 5th in a sprint at the Tour)
Rohregger - 570 (KOM, TDU, 9th in a Giro stage)
Klimov - 637 (9th in a Tour stage)
Thomson - 713 (3rd, Tour of Wellington, a stage win in Langkawi)
Day - 902 (1st, Tour de Beauce)
Cantwell - 930 (comedy from the video of Chicchi outsprinting Cav in California; Phil Liggett actually says, without a hint of irony, "the one man who can ruin things for Columbia here, Jonathan Cantwell. Apologies to Jonathan, but I'm sure he would agree that he isn't likely to be the only man who can beat Cavendish in a field with JJ Haedo, Heinrich Haußler, Tom Boonen and Francesco Chicchi in it...)
Sulzberger - 938
Dennis - 985
Zajicek - 1013 (10th, Tour of California)
Impey - 1027
Avery - 1243
Crawford - 1619
Kemps - 1654
Lowe - 1967
Lill - 2401
Lapthorne - 2935


So actually, they have a few people with decent positions in CQ. The problem is, many of them have their positions inflated by the elevated status of races like the TDU and Eneco Tour, two races which even on CQ pay far more points than their actual worth merits. As a result, you're left with a team with many people who frankly don't merit a ProTeam position or anything like that, but have a reasonable ranking position all things considered. They have a fair few people who've accumulated points that you'd have forgotten all about or that have picked up the points without ever doing anything memorable.

With some of those riders, how much would you really know about those riders?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

With some of those riders, how much would you really know about those riders?

Oh, not a lot. A lot of them have only been doing domestic Aussie and American calendars, most of which I neither know nor care about. Some of them are young and thus have lots of room for improvement when riding at a higher level; others are 28-29 and my worry is they may be swamped and out of their depth at the higher level. Then again other latecomers to the top level like Russell Downing have acquitted themselves quite well.

All in all, however, the roster bears the unmistakable stench of BMC 2010. But without Evans. You've got your ageing name value rider with McEwen, you've got some talented journeymen, and a core of home country talent that is inexperienced or young. There are some decent talents on that team but in all honesty, if I was running a race I wouldn't have them very high on my list of teams that I wanted to invite.

Then again, if I was running a race it would be nothing but mountains start to finish, so Pegasus would be out of their depth regardless.

 

[vala-vala]

A big name

Perhaps Pegasus Racing needs....DANILO DI LUCA or THOMAS DEKKER!!!!!!!!!

 

[Hoop Dogg]

****! If your gonna throw those names out there, they might as well sign the chicken. I heard he's pretty low maintenance

 

[ttrider]

Would be jokes if they rocked up with Di Luca, Dekker, Rasmussen, Santi Perez, Mancebo and persuaded Heras to have 2 years to fill his bank account!

 

[lucybears]

A conversation with Phil Zajicek, the lone American on Pegasus finds a home
By Anthony TanUpdated: Nov 29th 2010
http://velonews.competitor.com/2010...-lone-american-on-pegasus-finds-a-home_151331

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

I cant believe the sponsors, who are relatively big names, are happy at all. The line up is nothing like the world class team promised, they seriously need another 5 class riders, Mcewen and Hunter are all that makes them worth pro conti

That's a bit harsh.

There are a lot of riders on that list who any Pro Conti team would be glad to have, and a few who would be perfectly at home in the ProTour.

Do you really think that someone like Svein Tuft, who is one of the top dozen or so time triallists in the world, isn't worth a spot in pretty much any team? He brought Garmin a couple of decent stage wins last year.

They don't have ProTour strength in depth, but they look like a pretty good Pro Conti squad to me. Not Cervelo or Vacansoleil good, but better than most.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

They don't have ProTour strength in depth, but they look like a pretty good Pro Conti squad to me. Not Cervelo or Vacansoleil good, but better than most.

The ProConti teams last year:

Vacansoleil - 7th (Marcato, Leukemans, Feillu, Riccò*, Carrara all in the CQ ranking top 100, + Hoogerland 107th. Highest ranked: Marcato, 31st)
Cervélo - 16th (Hushovd, Tondó and Sastre all in the CQ top 100 - highest ranked = Hushovd, 19th.
Cofidis - 19th (Moncoutié, Dumoulin and Duque all in the CQ ranking top 100, and Taaramäe, Keukeleire (101st) and Minard also putting in good scores. Top ranked = Moncoutié, 59th)
Bouygues - 20th (Voeckler and Fedrigo in the top 100 plus several in the top 200. Best ranked: Voeckler, 35th)
BMC - 21st (Only Evans in top 100, with a few between 100 and 200. Hence I used them as my comparison for the new Pegasus team. Only difference: Evans ranks 6th overall on CQ and isn't 38)
Androni - 23rd (Scarponi and Bertagnolli in top 100, with a few between 100 and 200 including Serpa 104th. Top scorer: Scarponi, 12th)
Skil-Shimano - 24th (only Kenny van Hummel - 98th - in top 100. A number of other riders in the 150-300 region. Probably the first team that Pegasus can legitimately claim to be stronger than).
Saur - 25th (Jérôme Coppel - 70th - their only top 100. Also Julien Simon and Jimmy Caspar in top 200)
TopSport - 27th (top scorer Kristof Vandewalle, 118th)
ISD - 28th (may have scored higher had Rujano and Sinkewitz been on full year deals; nonetheless top scorer Giovanni Visconti, 22nd - and with others in the top 200, potentially another comparison for the strength in depth of Pegasus)
CarmioOro - 29th (Pardilla and Ventoso in top 100, Pardilla best in 72nd. Also Sella in top 200).
CSF - 30th (Pozzovivo in 41st, but also Belletti and Modolo in top 200 - again, useful comparison for strength? Probably a bit weaker than Pegasus).
Xacobero - 31st (Mosquera the obvious top scorer, ranked 30th. No other big scorers)
Acqua e Sapone - 32nd (Paolini and Garzelli in top 100, Paolini best in 78th. Other results lacking, but squad depth not far off Pegasus)
Landbouwkrediet - 33rd
De Rosa-Stac Plastic - 34th
Ceramica Flaminia - 37th*
CCC Polsat-Polkowice - 41st
Andalucía-Caja Sur - 42nd
Vorarlberg-Corratec - 80th**
Scott-Marcondes César-São José dos Campos - 90th**

* the transfer of Riccò's points obviously alters the rankings for these two teams.
** these teams lost ProContinental registration temporarily, in Vorarlberg's case never regaining it, due to financial problems during the season.

My conclusion? Pegasus are a decent but not spectacular ProConti team. They will be outranked also by FDJ (18th) and Geox, in addition to those ProConti teams mentioned above (obviously Cervélo and Vacansoleil won't be there as ProConti teams next year). They look to be on a par with BMC or ISD in terms of their roster; but their highest ranked rider is simply not as dynamic or as much of a guarantor of results as Evans or Visconti.

 

[auscyclefan94]

The ProConti teams last year:

Vacansoleil - 7th (Marcato, Leukemans, Feillu, Riccò*, Carrara all in the CQ ranking top 100, + Hoogerland 107th. Highest ranked: Marcato, 31st)
Cervélo - 16th (Hushovd, Tondó and Sastre all in the CQ top 100 - highest ranked = Hushovd, 19th.
Cofidis - 19th (Moncoutié, Dumoulin and Duque all in the CQ ranking top 100, and Taaramäe, Keukeleire (101st) and Minard also putting in good scores. Top ranked = Moncoutié, 59th)
Bouygues - 20th (Voeckler and Fedrigo in the top 100 plus several in the top 200. Best ranked: Voeckler, 35th)
BMC - 21st (Only Evans in top 100, with a few between 100 and 200. Hence I used them as my comparison for the new Pegasus team. Only difference: Evans ranks 6th overall on CQ and isn't 38)
Androni - 23rd (Scarponi and Bertagnolli in top 100, with a few between 100 and 200 including Serpa 104th. Top scorer: Scarponi, 12th)
Skil-Shimano - 24th (only Kenny van Hummel - 98th - in top 100. A number of other riders in the 150-300 region. Probably the first team that Pegasus can legitimately claim to be stronger than).
Saur - 25th (Jérôme Coppel - 70th - their only top 100. Also Julien Simon and Jimmy Caspar in top 200)
TopSport - 27th (top scorer Kristof Vandewalle, 118th)
ISD - 28th (may have scored higher had Rujano and Sinkewitz been on full year deals; nonetheless top scorer Giovanni Visconti, 22nd - and with others in the top 200, potentially another comparison for the strength in depth of Pegasus)
CarmioOro - 29th (Pardilla and Ventoso in top 100, Pardilla best in 72nd. Also Sella in top 200).
CSF - 30th (Pozzovivo in 41st, but also Belletti and Modolo in top 200 - again, useful comparison for strength? Probably a bit weaker than Pegasus).
Xacobero - 31st (Mosquera the obvious top scorer, ranked 30th. No other big scorers)
Acqua e Sapone - 32nd (Paolini and Garzelli in top 100, Paolini best in 78th. Other results lacking, but squad depth not far off Pegasus)
Landbouwkrediet - 33rd
De Rosa-Stac Plastic - 34th
Ceramica Flaminia - 37th*
CCC Polsat-Polkowice - 41st
Andalucía-Caja Sur - 42nd
Vorarlberg-Corratec - 80th**
Scott-Marcondes César-São José dos Campos - 90th**

* the transfer of Riccò's points obviously alters the rankings for these two teams.
** these teams lost ProContinental registration temporarily, in Vorarlberg's case never regaining it, due to financial problems during the season.

My conclusion? Pegasus are a decent but not spectacular ProConti team. They will be outranked also by FDJ (18th) and Geox, in addition to those ProConti teams mentioned above (obviously Cervélo and Vacansoleil won't be there as ProConti teams next year). They look to be on a par with BMC or ISD in terms of their roster; but their highest ranked rider is simply not as dynamic or as much of a guarantor of results as Evans or Visconti.

I honestly can not be bothered to argue with you or anyone else but having Vacansoleil at 7th and BMC at 21st is obviously indicates that those rankings have flaws just like the PT rankings.

 

[Anonymous]

I honestly can not be bothered to argue with you or anyone else but having Vacansoleil at 7th and BMC at 21st is obviously indicates that those rankings have flaws just like the PT rankings.

Why?

if you are going to argue that you have to at least put forward an argument.

I tend to agree that Vacon are ranked far higher than BMC for whom if you subtract one rider there is nothing left.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Remember that Vacansoleil also gained about 400 points from Riccò's Ceramica Flaminia days too.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Why?

if you are going to argue that you have to at least put forward an argument.

I tend to agree that Vacon are ranked far higher than BMC for whom if you subtract one rider there is nothing left.

I am not denying that vancasoleil had a better year but saying they were the 7th best team and BMC were 21st indicates there is a clear inbalance in the rankings. Because a fair majority hate the uci and anything to do with it that you completely shutdown those rankings and pump up the CQ rankings. With a little more luck to BMC during this year and not having all the cobbled classics team having a slump in form then BMC's year would look much more formidable.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Remember that Vacansoleil also gained about 400 points from Riccò's Ceramica Flaminia days too.

Without those points CQ ranking still puts them 7th.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I am not denying that vancasoleil had a better year but saying they were the 7th best team and BMC were 21st indicates there is a clear inbalance in the rankings. Because a fair majority hate the uci and anything to do with it that you completely shutdown those rankings and pump up the CQ rankings. With a little more luck to BMC during this year and not having all the cobbled classics team having a slump in form then BMC's year would look much more formidable.

Yes, but it's all hypothetical. Cervélo could hypothetically have had a much better year if Haussler hadn't spent most of it injured. Vacansoleil could hypothetically have had a much better year if they'd been invited to more big races, races that BMC often were a waste of an invite at (ie mostly things that Evans wasn't racing or that weren't in Switzerland - they even had their invite taken away from them at Dwars Door Vlaanderen because the organisers felt the team they were sent was a joke). Sky could hypothetically have had a much better year if Boasson Hagen hadn't been injured. Caisse d'Epargne could hypothetically have had a much better year if Valverde's points hadn't been completely arbitrarily removed considering that even CAS said they could see nothing wrong with Valverde's 2010 rides.

It's all swings and roundabouts. I'm surprised that Skil appear to be lower than where Pegasus would be, because I imagine them as being much more visible.

CQ is all about what results you've got lately. There are some teams who have a number of underperforming stars, but the stars have that draw factor plus the fact that we know that they CAN achieve that makes them valuable for race organisers; there are some teams who punch above their weight by not really having stars but accumulating a lot of results (Cofidis being the best example).

 

[auscyclefan94]

I think it runs a bit deeper with under performance with BMC

Evans (was very close in many early season races and could of done better in giro)
Burghardt, Ballan, Kroon (very dissapointing in classics)

Many other guys debuted in grand tours which they were not suppose to be riding in. Because of the heavy riding schedule for many of the riders, they were stuffed mid year because of the heavy sheduling. With more riders and gurantee's into more races, the team will perform much better

That is why I think that to judge who deserves invites to races or pro tour status by a points system never actually works.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

But the thing is, I'm judging Pegasus against 2010 BMC, not against 2011 BMC. 2011 BMC will more than likely be much better.

A points system doesn't work because it doesn't take into account a team's potential (a rider like Andy Schleck scores fewer points than André Greipel because he only races a handful of races to win, for example, and an injury to a key rider can completely hamstring a team's chances, like EBH and Haussler. Or Xacobeo's 2009 Giro when Mosquera was out hurt).

But if we do have a points system, it shouldn't be on what the team currently have but what they had when they scored the points. You don't promote a football team based on who they've signed, you promote them for coming top of their league.

 

[hubbard]

so who knows who the big new secret sponsor is? it must be exciting.

 

[Anonymous]

I think it runs a bit deeper with under performance with BMC

Evans (was very close in many early season races and could of done better in giro)
Burghardt, Ballan, Kroon (very dissapointing in classics)

Many other guys debuted in grand tours which they were not suppose to be riding in. Because of the heavy riding schedule for many of the riders, they were stuffed mid year because of the heavy sheduling. With more riders and gurantee's into more races, the team will perform much better

That is why I think that to judge who deserves invites to races or pro tour status by a points system never actually works.

surely more race invites will create just as heavy a schedule, they havnt signed that many riders to compensate.

But we are getting heavily sidetracked.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

My conclusion? Pegasus are a decent but not spectacular ProConti team.

Yes. I think that's a fair evaluation of them.

Their roster isn't good enough for the ProTour and they aren't going to dominate as a Pro Conti team, but they are certainly well worth their Pro Conti spot. I would expect them to get some decent results at that level and that's a good starting point for a team intent on moving up in the world.

 

[lucybears]

Jamie Ford caught up with Robbie McEwen at the recent Pegasus Training camp on the Sunshine Coast.
http://click.cyclingfever.com/?jump=3/12721/1289574350-26

 

[ingsve]

But the thing is, I'm judging Pegasus against 2010 BMC, not against 2011 BMC. 2011 BMC will more than likely be much better.

A points system doesn't work because it doesn't take into account a team's potential (a rider like Andy Schleck scores fewer points than André Greipel because he only races a handful of races to win, for example, and an injury to a key rider can completely hamstring a team's chances, like EBH and Haussler. Or Xacobeo's 2009 Giro when Mosquera was out hurt).

But if we do have a points system, it shouldn't be on what the team currently have but what they had when they scored the points. You don't promote a football team based on who they've signed, you promote them for coming top of their league.

I think comparing Pegasus to BMC 2010 is fair points wise but not pedigree wise. Both teams have a handful of riders that fit into PT level teams but the likes of Ballan, Burghardt, Hincapie etc are far bigger profiles than Hunter, Lowe, Tuft etc. One gets a feeling that the potential was much greater in BMC 2010 than it is for Pegasus 2011. The comparison only works when BMC 2010 underperforms like they did this year.

 

[Night Rider]

The comparison only works when BMC 2010 underperforms like they did this year.

I don't really know if they did under perform, were expectations really that high? I can certainly think of worse under performers i.e. Quick Step.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I don't really know if they did under perform, were expectations really that high? I can certainly think of worse under performers i.e. Quick Step.

In the cobbled classics they certainly underperformed...

 

[profff]

ballan had a very bad season and he was sidelined because of not proven doping allegations in the cobble classic season that is the most important for him,aniway a very deceiving season for a former ronde and wc winner.
karsten kroon almost lost the season bacause facial fractures at the beginning of classic season, that is the most important for him
they had no sprinter, capable of scoring wins in flat stages.
cadel evans broke his arm in the most important race of the season or at least the one that was his main target of the season the race he was supposed to peak for (imho, he was going to fail anyway after such an hard giro...).
i can find a lot of reason for bmc underperformance of last year
there was hype, there was bad luck, but the season was anyway deceiving

2010 bmc potential was by far greater than 2011 pegasus: bmc had in his roster 2 world champion, a monument winner, semiclassic winners, people on the podium of GTs. I cannot see anything similar in pegasus: mc ewan is a great sprinter, winner of many stages in GTs, but i cannot see much more...