Penn St., Sandusky and Joe Paterno

[Alpe d'Huez]

Disturbing. But doesn't surprise me one bit.

I also noticed the same as you. The first to talk also seemed those with most to lose as far as reputation and money go, and sadly, quite culpable it seems.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

It appears those in charge did know and were aware of the consequences.
http://www.centredaily.com/2012/06/29/3247105/graham-spanier-and-other-penn.html#storylink=cpy

Thanks for the link. I read that and it is pretty clear others were aware. But here's an excerpt from that link that makes me believe they were not aware they were legally on the hook to take action, because I did not see any acknowledgement they knew their butts would be in trouble if they did not take action:

Curley also commented on getting “professional help” for Sandusky, according to the report.

Spanier responded a few hours later, saying “I am supportive” and that “The only downside for us is if the message isn’t ‘heard’ and acted upon and we then become vulnerable for not having reported it. But that can be assessed down the road.”

Spanier also called it a “humane and a reasonable way to proceed.”

Schultz responded the next day, according to the report, saying, “This is a more humane and upfront way to handle this.” The report said Schultz said they’d inform The Second Mile and then “play it by ear” about going to the “other organization.”

I presume the "other organization" to be the police. I think at this point they were just worried how to handle Sandusky and what would be better for him and the school (e.g. "humane and reasonable"). If they were aware they were on the hook I would have expected to see something like "do you realize if we don't go to the 'other organization' that we could go to jail".

 

[Steve H.]

Here is a link to a NY Times article: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/s...sky-e-mails-indicate.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all
Remember, at that time Curley is head of the police, for Penn State so I assume he was well aware of the consequences for failure to report.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Having read CNN's excerpts from the e-mails, I can't believe anyone at this point could defend JoPa. It's now quite clear he was aware of what was going on and sought to protect himself, his legacy and the school. He was not a senile old man who didn't understand what was going on.

And like Steve noted, I agree that Curley, Shultze and Spanier had no excuse if he claims he was unaware of any legal ramifications. You can't be in a position like that and not understand that a senior official having sex with a 9 year old boy in a shower is illegal. I would even argue that McQueary should have known when Curley didn't take action and the months passed, that he should have sought outside authorities. Though McQueary, because of his youth and position as an assistant in the school, is the only possible one who could have been unaware that the school (primarily Curley, Schultze, Spanier and Paterno) were breaking the law by not taking action. There is no way the others can claim this. That's a horrible, horrible excuse. Horrible.

The entire thing is just disgusting and revolting beyond comprehension. A horror well beyond one man molesting boys and not getting caught.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Absolutely agree Alpe. My only question now is when are the others, who failed to inform authorities, going to be prosecuted?

 

[Steve H.]

I would even argue that McQueary should have known when Curley didn't take action and the months passed, that he should have sought outside authorities. Though McQueary, because of his youth and position as an assistant in the school, is the only possible one who could have been unaware that the school (primarily Curley, Schultze, Spanier and Paterno) were breaking the law by not taking action.

The entire thing is just disgusting and revolting beyond comprehension. A horror well beyond one man molesting boys and not getting caught.

There is some evidence McQueary may have been allowed to continue/advance as long as he kept quiet.
Curley and Shultz are already facing criminal charges, just perjury though. A lot more info will probably come out in the civil suits against PSU, Second Mile, the Paterno estate and other involved individuals.
The new PA budget includes the money re-instated for PSU.

 

[rhubroma]

Having read CNN's excerpts from the e-mails, I can't believe anyone at this point could defend JoPa. It's now quite clear he was aware of what was going on and sought to protect himself, his legacy and the school. He was not a senile old man who didn't understand what was going on.

And like Steve noted, I agree that Curley, Shultze and Spanier had no excuse if he claims he was unaware of any legal ramifications. You can't be in a position like that and not understand that a senior official having sex with a 9 year old boy in a shower is illegal. I would even argue that McQueary should have known when Curley didn't take action and the months passed, that he should have sought outside authorities. Though McQueary, because of his youth and position as an assistant in the school, is the only possible one who could have been unaware that the school (primarily Curley, Schultze, Spanier and Paterno) were breaking the law by not taking action. There is no way the others can claim this. That's a horrible, horrible excuse. Horrible.

The entire thing is just disgusting and revolting beyond comprehension. A horror well beyond one man molesting boys and not getting caught.

The show, and profit, must go on. Not even ******ing youth must get in the way.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

The whole story just hit our local news today. Looks like others who knew what Sandusky was doing also knew the legal implications of inaction to at least some extent. Does not look good for the culpable ones.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

The Louis Freeh report on Sandusky's case is due in about an hour. It's going to be heavily scrutinized, but what I think will be most intriguing is just how much he focuses on who legally broke the law, and if he focuses at all on ethics.

Of course what may be even more interesting (disturbing) in the hours and days to come is the extent to which officials, alumni and fans will spin the report.

 

[Race Radio]

http://assets.espn.go.com/pdf/2012/0712/psupressrelease.pdf

Here is the report. Devastating would be a good description

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

That may be an understatement.

Much respect for Freeh for not merely concentrating on the legalities, but giving a full report on the actions (or inaction) and horrific and inexcusable decisions made by the PSU leaders.

"The most powerful leaders at Penn State University - Spanier, Schultz, Paterno and Curley - repeatedly concealed critical facts relating to Sandusky's child abuse from the authorities, the Board of Trustees, Penn State community, and the public at large."

It goes on and on, showing how these people were essentially enablers for Sandusky, for years. But I'll let you read it for yourself, if you can stomach it.

USA Today article.

 

[Steve H.]

More of the pieces fit into place regarding questionable behavior. Now you know why Paterno waited over the weekend after talking to McQueary, they were already aware! It might also be the reason MM's father said to go to Paterno, he already knew. This report does little to address the board of trustees, they seem to be happy with people thinking they are just figureheads. I didn't really expect much else, since it was the board who hired him. I was hoping they might have dug deeper into Sandusky's past. It seems to me rape in the shower is a sign of an experienced pedo. I assumed he used his stature as "the great sandusky" in the pedophilia circles, as as he had in other areas, to advance his desires.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Some are repulsed enough by the immoral acts and coverup that they (Fox Sports Link, see quote below) are calling for the death penalty for PSU football. At least for a while. And I agree. How long, I don't know. But the point of the death penalty is a message to all schools... you allow this then here's what you can expect, including the loss of football generated revenue.

Everything that has happened to Penn State so far is a half measure. And I do not believe in half measures for child rapists or institutions that harbor them. Neither should you.

What is a full measure, you ask.

The death penalty, as delivered by the NCAA, is a good starting point. I used to believe this was too harsh. After listening to those boys testify and then reading details in the Freeh reports like Sandusky having special seats to Paterno’s record-breaking game in 2011 and an email from then-athletic director Tim Curley saying, after talking with Paterno, he no longer believed reporting Sandusky to child authorities was the right course of action, I have changed my mind.

The football program needs to go away for a while.

A big reason this was allowed to happen was because the whole economy of Penn State was football. If you take that away, they might learn.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

My only criticism regarding the death penalty is that it really does need to apply most of all to the people who committed the crime. In this case, the trustees would be punished, and a message would be sent. That part is probably the strength of the argument and I would support that. But does it outweigh the punishment given to the current students and staff who had nothing to do with what happened?

Nike today removed Paterno's name from their child development center. What took them so long was of course money. There's loud calls to have his statue removed from Beaver Stadium (where the Nitney Lions play). I honestly don't know how on earth they could keep it there, but we'll see what happens.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

My only criticism regarding the death penalty is that it really does need to apply most of all to the people who committed the crime. In this case, the trustees would be punished, and a message would be sent. That part is probably the strength of the argument and I would support that. But does it outweigh the punishment given to the current students and staff who had nothing to do with what happened?

Nike today removed Paterno's name from their child development center. What took them so long was of course money. There's loud calls to have his statue removed from Beaver Stadium (where the Nitney Lions play). I honestly don't know how on earth they could keep it there, but we'll see what happens.

Yeah, the death penalty is a double edged sword b/c it does also punish the innocent. And the IS unfortunate. But sometimes I think extreme behavior requires extreme responses.

Man, the dominoes just keep falling don't they.

 

[Steve H.]

I would support the death penalty in this case. First, there are many people still in denial about Paterno's involvement in the matter. Second, the entire university and community at large realized increased profit and status from the success of the football program. I would suggest the people of Pennsylvania were "groomed" as surely as the victims of Jerry Sandusky. Say it with me "We are Penn State"

 

[ChrisE]

My only criticism regarding the death penalty is that it really does need to apply most of all to the people who committed the crime.

The players could be released and allowed to find scholarships elsewhere, even div 1. An exception to the rule can be made in this case.

Others whose employment depends on football? That is unfortunate but thems are the breaks.

Death penalty is warranted.

 

[Steve H.]

As more and more information is revealed, it keeps getting worse.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/14/s...ract-amid-jerry-sandusky-inquiry.html?_r=2&hp.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

After some thought, I have to agree with Chris and on3am@n and say I support the death penalty for PSU football. I make this decision without hesitation. Players can transfer, coaches can get work elsewhere, and everyone else will just have to tough it out. But this entire situation is so horrific, so despicable, I think to give PSU the death penalty is not only the best, but more appropriate and effective way to send a message to all of college sports that if you allow something like to happen - and there is now no doubt that upper brass at PSU, including JoPa, absolutely allowed it to happen - that you will be punished to the fullest extent, without exception.

As Steve has noted, and I commented on before, the board of trustees may have been mostly in the dark on this, but they cannot hold onto that excuse at every step. They can't have their cake and eat it too. They should have been more active in what was going on with the people they hired and oversaw. And many of them should have simply resigned when this scandal broke. What happened at PSU with Sandusky and his enablers, should never, ever, ever happen again, and a death penalty would be a wake-up call to not only coaches and AD's, but to school presidents and hands-off boards of trustees that they can't just look away and assume everything is fine, and someone else is taking care of every problem.

That NYT article is very disturbing. What absolute selfish greed Paterno had, and how blind his faithful followers were. It makes me sick to read that, knowing he was well aware of Sandusky's raping of boys when negotiating that. It's just sickening. A death penalty ruling would also help future boards of trustees to stand tall when taking needed actions, knowing they must be the highest arbiter and responsible for the ultimate well being of their entire university, and all of it's staff, students, alumni, and visitors.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

After some thought, I have to agree with Chris and on3am@n and say I support the death penalty for PSU football. I make this decision without hesitation. Players can transfer, coaches can get work elsewhere, and everyone else will just have to tough it out. But this entire situation is so horrific, so despicable, I think to give PSU the death penalty is not only the best, but more appropriate and effective way to send a message to all of college sports that if you allow something like to happen - and there is now no doubt that upper brass at PSU, including JoPa, absolutely allowed it to happen - that you will be punished to the fullest extent, without exception.

As Steve has noted, and I commented on before, the board of trustees may have been mostly in the dark on this, but they cannot hold onto that excuse at every step. They can't have their cake and eat it too. They should have been more active in what was going on with the people they hired and oversaw. And many of them should have simply resigned when this scandal broke. What happened at PSU with Sandusky and his enablers, should never, ever, ever happen again, and a death penalty would be a wake-up call to not only coaches and AD's, but to school presidents and hands-off boards of trustees that they can't just look away and assume everything is fine, and someone else is taking care of every problem.

That NYT article is very disturbing. What absolute selfish greed Paterno had, and how blind his faithful followers were. It makes me sick to read that, knowing he was well aware of Sandusky's raping of boys when negotiating that. It's just sickening. A death penalty ruling would also help future boards of trustees to stand tall when taking needed actions, knowing they must be the highest arbiter and responsible for the ultimate well being of their entire university, and all of it's staff, students, alumni, and visitors.

Well said. Sending the message and giving out a wake up call to all school staff across the country is exactly what is needed. I'd even put that a higher priority than punishing PSU, which is needed too.

So anyway, now that we are all agreed the death penalty is warranted, the next step, or question, is will the NCAA act on it and hand out a death penalty to the PSU football program? Typically the NCAA hands out penalties for rule infractions involving things like recruiting and student affairs. As far as I know, they have not levied out penalties for criminal acts or for allowing criminals acts to take place without notifying the authorities.

Here is an official NCAA statement on the PSU situation posted on July 12 on the NCAA website (LINK):

Statement by Bob Williams, vice president of communications

“Like everyone else, we are reviewing the final report for the first time today. As President Emmert wrote in his November 17th letter to Penn State President Rodney Erickson and reiterated this week, the university has four key questions, concerning compliance with institutional control and ethics policies, to which it now needs to respond. Penn State’s response to the letter will inform our next steps, including whether or not to take further action. We expect Penn State’s continued cooperation in our examination of these issues.”

Notice the date NOVEMBER 17 2011. And the letter above requested PSU to respond by DECEMBER 16 2011. So, it sounds like the NCAA has the response from PSU that they requested regarding the "four key questions" in the link above. So the NCAA should be close to a decision, no?

 

[Steve H.]

I think the NCAA is still waiting for a response to the initial set of questions they asked of PSU. http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...eeds-to-respond-regarding-possible-violations
When there were the recent board elections, the people who won were Paterno supporters vowing to reinstate him. I have little faith in them. At least the halo around Paterno has been removed from the mural.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Incredible we have been waiting since Nov-December 2011.

Just a little play on words for fun: I'd like to see the Paterno followers reinstate him now. I also have little faith in them on that account.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Here's an article on the halo being removed.

 

[Steve H.]

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/07/jerry_sandusky_case_three_men.html
It appears more victims are coming forward, some from the 1970's. In the comment section a post states there are at least 45 additional.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Should have just painted over the entire image.

Now the family of Paterno has instructed its lawyer to form a "group of experts" to conduct a comprehensive review of the facts and conclusions presented last week in the Freeh report. http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_...-lions-paternos-conduct-own-review-freeh-data
I don't think it will get anywhere.