Teams & Riders Peter Sagan discussion thread.

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

Yeah it's very hard for Sagan to win with his team situation. He was strong in de Ronde, but he can't miss any move, he can't attack too much, he can't win solo, so he's down to hoping he doesn't miss the winning move and win the sprint

Wasting Oss before the Kruisberg was a dumb move. Not being onto Terpstra was a terrible move. The last one you can blame everyone for, because what followed was incredibly predictable.

What would have followed if Sagand went with Terpstra was also incredibly predictable ………and to the extend that i find it hard to believe that this line of reasoning is still present in the debate.

But maybe you suggest that Oss should be the one to follow Terpstra - if yes - than i agree - i am also inclined to believe that Oss should have be saved for covering exactly those terpstrasque attacks - as many as he could.

But yeah, i guess - there was probably idea that Oss was supposed to sustain hard tempo to postpone the beginning of QS attacking carousel (first Terpstra, than Štybar, than Gilbert and if needed second round) as late as possible - in best scenario to Paterberg.

Oss would not hold Terpstra's wheel for long, just like Nibali didn't. Terpstra is the best roleur on the team, strongest rider to go solo, that means you must mark his moves, he's the great danger. Sagan really should've been on his wheel, and Van Avermaet also. The best man to let go is Stybar, then Gilbert and then at the end Terpstra.
Sagan made not one mistake, but couple of them. First he put Oss to work with 4 Steppers in the group, huge mistake! He should've force Lampaert to work, or maybe Roelandts. If Lampaert attacks, Oss covers. If Stybar attacks, he lets that go to somebody else to cover. Stybar, although a great rider, wouldn't last to the finish, he just isn't that kind of rider, he never produced something similar. Oss could hold him on the leash, and then Sagan and co. would caught him on the Kwaremont or after Paterberg. If Gilbert attacks, that's a danger one, but I bet Van Avermaet, Benoot, Naesen and Vanmarcke would thought the same, someone would close that. That leaves Terpstra, they considered him as a wing man, but he was the main man. And he'll be the main man tomorrow also. If they let him go unmarked, they will see him next time at the Velodrome. The last mistake was dropping strong group at the Paterberg, that group was his last chance of catching Terstra, although odds were not big.
So, for money, Sagan needs to mark only two guys tomorrow, Terpstra and Van Avermaet. If one of them escapes, it's game over for him.

 

[cyclopsnoobie]

Re: Re:

Yeah it's very hard for Sagan to win with his team situation. He was strong in de Ronde, but he can't miss any move, he can't attack too much, he can't win solo, so he's down to hoping he doesn't miss the winning move and win the sprint

Wasting Oss before the Kruisberg was a dumb move. Not being onto Terpstra was a terrible move. The last one you can blame everyone for, because what followed was incredibly predictable.

Oss would not hold Terpstra's wheel for long, just like Nibali didn't. Terpstra is the best roleur on the team, strongest rider to go solo, that means you must mark his moves, he's the great danger. Sagan really should've been on his wheel, and Van Avermaet also. The best man to let go is Stybar, then Gilbert and then at the end Terpstra.
Sagan made not one mistake, but couple of them. First he put Oss to work with 4 Steppers in the group, huge mistake! He should've force Lampaert to work, or maybe Roelandts. If Lampaert attacks, Oss covers. If Stybar attacks, he lets that go to somebody else to cover. Stybar, although a great rider, wouldn't last to the finish, he just isn't that kind of rider, he never produced something similar. Oss could hold him on the leash, and then Sagan and co. would caught him on the Kwaremont or after Paterberg. If Gilbert attacks, that's a danger one, but I bet Van Avermaet, Benoot, Naesen and Vanmarcke would thought the same, someone would close that. That leaves Terpstra, they considered him as a wing man, but he was the main man. And he'll be the main man tomorrow also. If they let him go unmarked, they will see him next time at the Velodrome. The last mistake was dropping strong group at the Paterberg, that group was his last chance of catching Terstra, although odds were not big.
So, for money, Sagan needs to mark only two guys tomorrow, Terpstra and Van Avermaet. If one of them escapes, it's game over for him.

I really do not think that any of QS main trio could be “best man to let go” - to let any of them go is/was huge mistake - only it was not Sagans mistake (i explained my point of view somewhere earlier on this thread).

In your post your blueprint of different strategy depend on somebody else cooperation - you mentioned it couple of times - i bolded it - yeah, your strategy could work….except that in reality nobody cooperates with Sagan in group (this is exactly point of this “complaining controversy” of last days), no “than someone closes that” is happening, they stubbornly let Sagan do the work, because this is considered as “smart” - it looks like it is generally adopted basic principle of road racing nowadays - do not cooperate with Sagan, because that means that you are dragging him to the line where he beats you - so be smart and let him do do work!

It seems that there prevails this "You are WC, you are the strongest so if you want to win you must do it alone (or with your team) - and do not dare to complain you whiner!" attitude in the peloton.

For tomorrow - i think that P-R suits rest of Bora squad better - so i hope for better team performance - but I do not dare unleash my optimism to much because precedence of top-level team race from Bora is something that we are awaiting yet.

 

[Netserk]

Y'a haters, take your "overrated" and stick it up where the sun doesn't shine! _O_

 

[SKSemtex]

Re:

Y'a haters, take your "overrated" and stick it up where the sun doesn't shine! _O_

 

[Eclipse]

Absolute class. Add another one to the Palmares =)

 

[Scarponi]

Beast

 

[repre]

Not a good roleur they said.... take it!

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

Y'a haters, take your "overrated" and stick it up where the sun doesn't shine! _O_

He was basically gifted the win. Dillier has got to be the dumbest cyclist to ever exist.

 

[MuskyOurSaviour]

Re: Re:

Y'a haters, take your "overrated" and stick it up where the sun doesn't shine! _O_

He was basically gifted the win. Dillier has got to be the dumbest cyclist to ever exist.

Wouldn't that be Gilbert for targeting this race.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Y'a haters, take your "overrated" and stick it up where the sun doesn't shine! _O_

He was basically gifted the win. Dillier has got to be the dumbest cyclist to ever exist.

Wouldn't that be Gilbert for targeting this race.

Nope, for skipping it last year when he actually had a chance to win with his monster shape.

Everything played out perfectly for Sagan today, but you still have to pull it off and he did. Chapeau

 

[burning]

Re: Re:

Y'a haters, take your "overrated" and stick it up where the sun doesn't shine! _O_

He was basically gifted the win. Dillier has got to be the dumbest cyclist to ever exist.

If the cobbled specialists are not the dumbest cyclists of the peloton, Sagan would have never won..

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

Y'a haters, take your "overrated" and stick it up where the sun doesn't shine! _O_

He was basically gifted the win. Dillier has got to be the dumbest cyclist to ever exist.

Maybe it proves the unimportance of the race since all the others didn't want to win :lol:

 

[saganftw]

Re: Re:

Y'a haters, take your "overrated" and stick it up where the sun doesn't shine! _O_

He was basically gifted the win. Dillier has got to be the dumbest cyclist to ever exist.

sure he should have sat on sagans wheel and watch how terpstra group catch up to them and finish with a fine 9th place or something i would also take that instead of making sure i get a podium finish

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Y'a haters, take your "overrated" and stick it up where the sun doesn't shine! _O_

He was basically gifted the win. Dillier has got to be the dumbest cyclist to ever exist.

If the cobbled specialists are not the dumbest cyclists of the peloton, Sagan would have never won..

Nor would Terpstra last week, or at E3 though. Sagan deserved his victory for seeing how passively the cobbled favourites are racing this season, and gambling on a move which paid off.

Which of course, doesn't dispute the theory that cobbled specialists are the dumbest cyclists in the peloton. But at least Sagan wasn't among them today, for a change.

 

[d-s3]

Re: Re:

Y'a haters, take your "overrated" and stick it up where the sun doesn't shine! _O_

He was basically gifted the win. Dillier has got to be the dumbest cyclist to ever exist.

Should Dillier not work, Sagan would attack and drop him. Dillier would end up - what - 15th?
By working he got 2nd (and minimal chance for a win).
Dillier made very good decision.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

Y'a haters, take your "overrated" and stick it up where the sun doesn't shine! _O_

He was basically gifted the win. Dillier has got to be the dumbest cyclist to ever exist.

Maybe it proves the unimportance of the race since all the others didn't want to win :lol:

Nah if it was an unimportant race Valverde would have been at the start-line.

 

[repre]

Re: Re:

Y'a haters, take your "overrated" and stick it up where the sun doesn't shine! _O_

He was basically gifted the win. Dillier has got to be the dumbest cyclist to ever exist.

Maybe it proves the unimportance of the race since all the others didn't want to win :lol:

Nah if it was an unimportant race Valverde would have been at the start-line.

and gifted a win to teammate!

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

Y'a haters, take your "overrated" and stick it up where the sun doesn't shine! _O_

He was basically gifted the win. Dillier has got to be the dumbest cyclist to ever exist.

Should Dillier not work, Sagan would attack and drop him. Dillier would end up - what - 15th?
By working he got 2nd (and minimal chance for a win).
Dillier made very good decision.

sagan clearly couldn't drop him. Dillier would have won if he sat in the wheels for the last 10km.

 

[movingtarget]

Dillier had no options at all and he rode a great race. Sagan was brilliant and took advantage of the usual hesitation at a critical point in the race and he was also smart to hold the group together instead of just trying to ride away from them. He did what needed to do to win and it never looked in doubt from about 40 km from the finish. GVA nowhere near 2017 spring form and Quickstep's tactics were curious at best.

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

Y'a haters, take your "overrated" and stick it up where the sun doesn't shine! _O_

He was basically gifted the win. Dillier has got to be the dumbest cyclist to ever exist.

Wouldn't that be Gilbert for targeting this race.

Yeah, I mean it's simple, just did what Valverde does, target the race that no one else does

 

[SKSemtex]

I have a feeling Sagan could get rid of Dillier long time ago. they both new it and made kind of agreement. imho
I think Sagan still had huge reserve on the end.
It is quite easy to figure out on his face when he is in red.


No way chasers could bring down 1 min from 30 km mark.

Cance could not do 17 seconds in Rvv.

Sagan was strong already last week and
Iif Terpstra did not attack before Kwaremont he would have won solo after Paterberg.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

Y'a haters, take your "overrated" and stick it up where the sun doesn't shine! _O_

He was basically gifted the win. Dillier has got to be the dumbest cyclist to ever exist.

Wouldn't that be Gilbert for targeting this race.

Yeah, I mean it's simple, just did what Valverde does, target the race that no one else does

Target the same races you know you can win without ever taking risks. Yeah, Gilbert at least has the balls to try something different and take risks. Same with Nibali who won Milan-San Remo in a brilliant fashion. Nothing worse than valverde fanboys.

 

[El Pistolero]

I have a feeling Sagan could get rid of Dillier long time ago. they both new it and made kind of agreement. imho
I think Sagan still had huge reserve on the end.
It is quite easy to figure out on his face when he is in red.


No way chasers could bring down 1 min from 30 km mark.

Cance could not do 17 seconds in Rvv.

Sagan was strong already last week and
Iif Terpstra did not attack before Kwaremont he would have won solo after Paterberg.

yeah, no. If he had that much reserves he would have won with ten bike lenghts like Boonen in 2008.

 

[Blanco]

Maybe he just doesn't like to win :lol:

 

[tobydawq]

I have a feeling Sagan could get rid of Dillier long time ago. they both new it and made kind of agreement. imho
I think Sagan still had huge reserve on the end.
It is quite easy to figure out on his face when he is in red.


No way chasers could bring down 1 min from 30 km mark.

Cance could not do 17 seconds in Rvv.

Sagan was strong already last week and
Iif Terpstra did not attack before Kwaremont he would have won solo after Paterberg.

yeah, no. If he had that much reserves he would have won with ten bike lenghts like Boonen in 2008.

He probably didn't find the race important enough to go all-out in the sprint. Saving himself for Amstel.