Teams & Riders Peter Sagan discussion thread.

[SKSemtex]

Public announcement. DS who has not signed Peter Sagan for 2015 yet, do it immediately and call us to Gazeatta.

 

[Jspear]

Public announcement. DS who has not signed Peter Sagan for 2015 yet, do it immediately and call us to Gazeatta.

The cyclingnews article said that Cannondale could follow Sagan to Tinkov. If that happened I wonder what would happen to the rest of the Cannondale Team? I don't think that Sagan should go to Tinkov. He would not have as much support in races like the Tdf, because Tinkove has such strong GC riders. Right now he has as much support as he could want pretty much in every race he rides.

 

[Jspear]

The cyclingnews article said that Cannondale could follow Sagan to Tinkov. If that happened I wonder what would happen to the rest of the Cannondale Team? I don't think that Sagan should go to Tinkov. He would not have as much support in races like the Tdf, because Tinkove has such strong GC riders. Right now he has as much support as he could want pretty much in every race he rides.

 

[coimbrawu]

imo Sagan should go to BMC, for Allan Peiper and Daniel Oss.

Cannondale has a bunch of talent but many of them are more or less affected as they have to work for Sagan. So Sagan leaves the team is good for others. But Cannondale is not willing to lose Sagan because he is the best ad for them

 

[VeloHuman]

imo Sagan should go to BMC, for Allan Peiper and Daniel Oss.

Cannondale has a bunch of talent but many of them are more or less affected as they have to work for Sagan. So Sagan leaves the team is good for others. But Cannondale is not willing to lose Sagan because he is the best ad for them

BMC will want him to age 15 years before they sign him. He's too young and in his prime to fit their mold right now.

 

[Jelantik]

Think Contador is on his way out though.

According to Gazetta it is his private contract with Specialized that is going down the drain, and him staying... At least thats how I read it. He does have a contract for 2015 too. We will see how the season pans out, but if Contador is back to 2011 form or a close approximation then Tinkoff will be willing to do a lot to keep Contador - and Cannondale would likely be glad for the opportunity to get a personal contract with Contador. Lots of ways to fix it.


However, I don't really believe there's anything substantial to the story. Sagan could be on his way- Feltrin, Tinkoff and Riis all wants him. And pretty sure they would also love to get Mohoric, Villella and Basso. But thats it.

+1. I don't think it's going to be that easy to just walk out. From the way contador has been talking, he seemed very happy with the team. I think that's important for him. It's a little different than when he was at Astana. It definitely would be interesting if Cannondale is following sagan to tinkoff. As you said, that means personal contract with specialized will go down the drain or contador must leave. But which team can afford to buy him out his contract? Alonso's team might have the money, but contador wants team that can help him win races. New team especially from scratch would be difficult to immediately be competitive in GT race on their first year. And contador isn't getting younger either. That's a certainly a headache. Unless like you said, contador back to his top form. Then yes, contador at least got some bargaining chips.

 

[Jspear]

BMC will want him to age 15 years before they sign him. He's too young and in his prime to fit their mold right now.

Is that some cheap slap on BMC? Sure BMC might not have a team like sky(for stage races) or OPQS(for classics and sprints), but they still are a pretty good team. I'm sure lot's of riders wish they had results like Cadel(Tdf winner, podium finisher, giro podium finisher, UCI World champ), or even TVG or Phinney. They've had more early season success then Cannondale so far this year.(I know it's extremely early in the season, but still)

 

[coimbrawu]

Is that some cheap slap on BMC? Sure BMC might not have a team like sky(for stage races) or OPQS(for classics and sprints), but they still are a pretty good team. I'm sure lot's of riders wish they had results like Cadel(Tdf winner, podium finisher, giro podium finisher, UCI World champ), or even TVG or Phinney. They've had more early season success then Cannondale so far this year.(I know it's extremely early in the season, but still)

After tour 2013, BMC replace John Lelangue with Allan Peiper, the man behind Ryder Hesjedal's giro success and play an important role in old HTC-Highroad glorious days. And they change BMC's old school training method to a modern way, which makes BMC become the team win most after July 2013. Besides, it's surprise Cannondale can't find a good leadout for Sagan when Oss left them. So if he come to BMC, at least he would have a very good leadout and decent classic team. But I know it is hard.

 

[argyllflyer]

Honestly, Sagan, who regards himself as an all-rounder, is in danger of becoming the 'jack of all trades, master of none'.

I just spotted the Cycling News article...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sagan-struggles-to-smile-after-second-place-in-strade-bianche

...but I was thinking about this before I read it. Sagan is talked up as a great Classics rider but after 4 years in the WT peloton (now in his 5th), his biggest one day win is Gent-Wevelgem.

He will usually not beat the top sprinters on a flat finish but can place high enough to pick up points in those jersey competitions. He can see off the top guys and the rest in more selective sprints. In Classics season though, those kind of finishes may have cobbles and climbs before they're reached, and he's at this point not the best at that either.

When it comes to the steep ramps, he won't win Fleche Wallonne (he gave it a good go last year), nor Amstel Gold so long as the best puncheurs and those better at climbing than him are around. Maybe Strade Bianche is another race he will struggle to win in decent climbing company as evidenced yesterday.

He's started this season quite sluggishly and last year, a couple of early/late season events aside, was a disappointment compared to 2012 - think of him in the Tour in Belgium beating Spartacus or leaving Chavanel for dead in Boulogne.

He seems to thrive when the competition is at its weakest.

Is Sagan the new EBH?

I love watching the guy but I feel he seems to have lost something. Last year was a great opportunity to win Milan-Sanremo - no major sprinters close by, yet he got it wrong. A more sprinter-friendly route this year doesn't bode well.

 

[contessador]

Honestly, Sagan, who regards himself as an all-rounder, is in danger of becoming the 'jack of all trades, master of none'.

I just spotted the Cycling News article...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sagan-struggles-to-smile-after-second-place-in-strade-bianche

I love watching the guy but I feel he seems to have lost something.

The look on Sagan's face when Kwiatkowski flew by him was sad. I felt bad for him. He was wearing the #8 riding the eighth edition. I am guessing he thought the race was his.

The commentator said that Sagan was out practicing wheelies at the finish line to prepare for SB, while Kwiatkowski was with his team seriously doing reconnaissance. That sums it for me.

That said, I hope to see him smiling and celebrating again soon

 

[wayahead]

Sagan is talked up as a great Classics rider but after 4 years in the WT peloton (now in his 5th), his biggest one day win is Gent-Wevelgem.

He will usually not beat the top sprinters on a flat finish but can place high enough to pick up points in those jersey competitions. He can see off the top guys and the rest in more selective sprints. In Classics season though, those kind of finishes may have cobbles and climbs before they're reached, and he's at this point not the best at that either.

When it comes to the steep ramps, he won't win Fleche Wallonne (he gave it a good go last year), nor Amstel Gold so long as the best puncheurs and those better at climbing than him are around. Maybe Strade Bianche is another race he will struggle to win in decent climbing company as evidenced yesterday. (...)

Is Sagan the new EBH?

I love watching the guy but I feel he seems to have lost something. Last year was a great opportunity to win Milan-Sanremo - no major sprinters close by, yet he got it wrong. A more sprinter-friendly route this year doesn't bode well.

Context is important. He lost something and he gained something. Sagan is fifth year a pro, but his role evolves, and so far he still improves his results.

2010, Sagan 19-20 yo neopro, promising sprinter. Some WOW results, e.g. his first two WT victories at P-N. Promising start, some expectations, some doubts. Fatigue in the second half of season.

2011 (21 yo), sprinter. No Tour. 3 victories at Vuelta. Great DH skills, some ability to survive mountains - in comparison to other sprinters. No classics expectations and results. Obvious progress to previous year.

2012 (22 yo), sprinter, promising classics rider, making mistakes, gaining necessary experience. Astonishing uphill sprint in Chieti (T-A). 4th at MSR due to team tactic prefering Nibali. 5th at RVV, clearly not on the level of Boonen, Pozatto, Balan, making mistakes on Oude, no Cance. 3th AGR, sprinting too early, his biggest mistake of the classics season. Green jersey, 3 victories at Tour, great performance. Disappeared after Tour, fatigue, maybe beer. Obvious progress in compare to previous year.

2013 (23 yo), classics rider, more endurance, fading sprint - he had to choose and he did it this way. First year of big classics expectations. Strong start in Oman, SB, great T-A (Sant'Elpidio). MSR 2nd, his biggest career fail so far. E3 2nd to Super-Cance. G-W 1st. RVV 2nd, but no fail: Cance - gap - Sagan - gap - others. No P-R (team decision and mistake), Brabantse Pijl 1st. Early season superform dissappeared during AGR. Green jersey, 1 win at Tour, slower than Kittel, Greipel and Cav, but much more durable. Great end of the season in US and Canada - Montreal 1st. 22 victories in the season. Obvious progress in compare to previous year.

2014 (24 yo), classics rider, time to deliver. Only way to improve his 2013´s results is to win his first monument. Early season form not as good as year before, hopefully peaking later? But too soon to judge him before classics season emerges. I´m full of expectations.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Sagan's palmares is already ahead of EBH's. I see Sagan expanding that gap in the future.

Important cobbles season coming up for both riders.

 

[Jancouver]

While the last few years it was "just riding and having fun" I think this year his training is more structured and he is trying to peak for RVV. I think if he fails to win at least one monument this year he may decide to lose some weight and be more competitive in those "Punchers" races like Amstel or SB. I can even envision him as the next Valverde type of guy if he slims down.

 

[VeloHuman]

Is that some cheap slap on BMC? Sure BMC might not have a team like sky(for stage races) or OPQS(for classics and sprints), but they still are a pretty good team. I'm sure lot's of riders wish they had results like Cadel(Tdf winner, podium finisher, giro podium finisher, UCI World champ), or even TVG or Phinney. They've had more early season success then Cannondale so far this year.(I know it's extremely early in the season, but still)

Wasn't a slap, more of a poke BMC is one of my favorite squads. Recently they have undeniably made a habit of bringing in superstars whose best years are behind them, ie. Gilbert, Hushovd, Sanchez. Doesn't mean they don't also have a lot of talent.

 

[coimbrawu]

his weakness should be his motivation. He rarely said I want to win something or I will kill/destroy/revenge, etc. but just the race is funny or I will try. And seems the early success has affect his motivation. There are so much glory and money he has already earned but he also spent too much time on those things unrelated to training. To this point, I'm very disappointed with him (if he really want to be a great rider, but not just a good one).

 

[phanatic]

Honestly, Sagan, who regards himself as an all-rounder, is in danger of becoming the 'jack of all trades, master of none'.

He's the master of the points jerseys. 4X Cali, 3X TdS, 2X TDF, 1X Oman, and Sardegna and Poland saw him win the overall as well as the points competition.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Sagan the new Zabel...

Zabel won a plethora of MSR tho, and podium flanders as well (like Sagan).. plus won AGR

 

[wayahead]

some quality training today...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X28zRuTVEqM

he´s back on his 2013´s level IMO

 

[Poursuivant]

Bookies have Cav as favourite for MSR but Sagan should be I think

 

[Rollthedice]

some quality training today...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X28zRuTVEqM

he´s back on his 2013´s level IMO

He came in 20th. Great training!

 

[rhubroma]

An incredible performance for Sagan. Granted he was 'rested' from yesterday, but still...

My guess is the tream told him to give it a go, that is ride the stage full out, to see where he stands in this kind of terrain.

Certainly he's on track for the classics.

 

[Jancouver]

Slowly starting to think that Sagan may very soon be a good candidate for the "Greatest rider without a monument win".

He is still young, but something is missing ...

 

[Gloin22]

Cancellera won his first monument at 26..

Sagan is 24 ..

He'll win one.. No doubt.

 

[Jspear]

Cancellera won his first monument at 26..

Sagan is 24 ..

He'll win one.. No doubt.

I agree most definitely. Fabian was saying recently in an interview, You don't just come here and win Flanders. It's something that takes a lot of time, hard work, and experience. He'll get there....he's already practically there.

 

[wayahead]

I read a several theories of what is his problem:

1. It has something to do with a distance.
2. He is tactically unexperienced, panicking when isolated etc.
3. It has something to do with cobbles and his "high" bike position causing him problems on Oude Kwaremont and maybe on flat cobbled sections as well. He always seems to struggle on Oude Kwaremont and he was dropped there on almost every occasion and by many on-form riders, not only by Cance. RvV ’13 is in fact an exception.
4. It’s simply his not-so-good form.

Many of this could be resolved next Sunday, if he will ride P-R.

What do you think? And what should Sagan do? What trade-offs to do not to became next EBH?