Teams & Riders Peter Sagan discussion thread.

[Lance Armstrong]

Re:

Decent ride today, but he needs to go for it a bit more. You can't always expect others to lead you out, Peter, sometimes you have to chase!

You really expect Sagan to pace bunch of climbers? He was spent at the top, just like Hushovd 4 years ago.

 

[BigMac]

Re:

Decent ride today, but he needs to go for it a bit more. You can't always expect others to lead you out, Peter, sometimes you have to chase!

Yes he should, except he doesn't. The last years Sagan has seen others ride against him on stages like this due to his superiority and tendence to come out on top on such finales. While so, he also always rode agressively and not only attacked, he was there to close gaps and respond to others' moves. Of course they exploited this, and countless times he ended up losing races by spending himself completely and creating bridges for others to jump from behind and counter him. I'm only surprised it took him so long to finally learn and think, I will not let others to arrogantly play me, and mark a turning point in such shameless paradigm. So I say, well done Peter. He was being trashed for riding the way he used to, now he his criticized as well. Today Valverde made me mad with him for a long time - the way Sagan stood in the mid front of the group while everybody blatantly stared at him confused (as if Sagan had the obligation to go after Dan Martin). I know his personality is sometimes detestable, and you can argue 'this is racing', but I'll still think he has been put in an unfair situation and is doing what he must do to make things diferent.

 

[Netserk]

Sagan's main mistake was closing the door on Contador. Other than that he did just fine today.

 

[ad9898]

Re: Re:

Sagan in yellow tomorrow as I predicted a few days ago, TS just need 12 seconds over Sky, lets hope so as he fully deserves it after this first week.

Not with Van Garderen just 2 seconds behind Sagan.

That is a problem ;-)

 

[Psalmon]

Re:

Sagan's main mistake was closing the door on Contador. Other than that he did just fine today.

It did look like that. I was even wondering if Contador was coming up to pace/help Sagan...At that point the remaining group was not going to catch even Martin, they were over 100 feet back. Sagan was in the running for Green and none of the GC were going to make a big delta on a 2% remaining stretch.

But of course Sagan doesn't have eyes in the back of his head and he was worried about attacks to his right not AC on his left, same kind of zig and zag as the other day when Stybar won. Sagan was working to max points in that remaining sprint and did enough to get Green. Jersey #2. Holy moly! the guy only got outsprinted by Valverde after that climb.

Now all that remains is TS beat Sky and BMC in the TTT, hmmmmm. Froome was not super confident about questions on the TTT, just the political, we have a great group of guys... Tejay, was dead dog confident in his interview, we are (REALLY) confident. You could see it in Tejay's eyes. He knows. Froome hopes.

I think TS may get time back on Sky tomorrow but will not beat BMC. BMC will likely win (if it were a computer game). They have 4/6 guys from the champion Worlds team. It would still be cool to see Sagan in Yellow, Green, and White, woah, but I think he'll be in second again to Tejay this time.

As for Green, I think Peter can keep it to Paris with all the lumpy stages between 13 and the Alpes. So much for the new points system! However, if AC gets Yellow in the Pyrenees, that opportunity may float away.

 

[Jancouver]

Would be awesome to see Sagan in yellow.

If that was the case, he would have Yellow, Green and White jerseys!

Anybody can remember when was a last time somebody had all three jerseys after stage 9?

 

[elfed68]

Re: Re:

Decent ride today, but he needs to go for it a bit more. You can't always expect others to lead you out, Peter, sometimes you have to chase!

He was spent after Froome´s attack.

Hang on, give the guy a break, staying up there with the GC guys was an an amazing achievement, he's a big guy with serious talent, do you not recognise this?

Just seeing all the sprinting talent fall by the wayside and Sagan in the lead bunch next to Froome was pretty amazing, I hope he gets his day in yellow, he so deserves it!

 

[Electress]

Re: Re:

Decent ride today, but he needs to go for it a bit more. You can't always expect others to lead you out, Peter, sometimes you have to chase!

He was spent after Froome´s attack.

Hang on, give the guy a break, staying up there with the GC guys was an an amazing achievement, he's a big guy with serious talent, do you not recognise this?

Just seeing all the sprinting talent fall by the wayside and Sagan in the lead bunch next to Froome was pretty amazing, I hope he gets his day in yellow, he so deserves it!

This. I think a whole lot of people must feel the same. It would be the best present for the way he's been working, and putting his ego to one side to do so. I've always like Peter, in spite of (indeed, possibly because of) some of his antics - he's always been refreshingly exuberant alongside his super-abundance of ability. So to see his work rewarded would be an immensely satisfying culmination to this first week, and also repay Oleg in the best way possible for all the shite earlier in the season.

 

[elfed68]

Re: Re:

Decent ride today, but he needs to go for it a bit more. You can't always expect others to lead you out, Peter, sometimes you have to chase!

He was spent after Froome´s attack.

Hang on, give the guy a break, staying up there with the GC guys was an an amazing achievement, he's a big guy with serious talent, do you not recognise this?

Just seeing all the sprinting talent fall by the wayside and Sagan in the lead bunch next to Froome was pretty amazing, I hope he gets his day in yellow, he so deserves it!

This. I think a whole lot of people must feel the same. It would be the best present for the way he's been working, and putting his ego to one side to do so. I've always like Peter, in spite of (indeed, possibly because of) some of his antics - he's always been refreshingly exuberant alongside his super-abundance of ability. So to see his work rewarded would be an immensely satisfying culmination to this first week, and also repay Oleg in the best way possible for all the shite earlier in the season.

The guy's an incredible talent, a jack of all trades but sadly the master of none, amazing rider though.

Sagan for yellow!!!

 

[Bushman]

Re: Re:

Decent ride today, but he needs to go for it a bit more. You can't always expect others to lead you out, Peter, sometimes you have to chase!

He was spent after Froome´s attack.

Hang on, give the guy a break, staying up there with the GC guys was an an amazing achievement, he's a big guy with serious talent, do you not recognise this?

Just seeing all the sprinting talent fall by the wayside and Sagan in the lead bunch next to Froome was pretty amazing, I hope he gets his day in yellow, he so deserves it!

This. I think a whole lot of people must feel the same. It would be the best present for the way he's been working, and putting his ego to one side to do so. I've always like Peter, in spite of (indeed, possibly because of) some of his antics - he's always been refreshingly exuberant alongside his super-abundance of ability. So to see his work rewarded would be an immensely satisfying culmination to this first week, and also repay Oleg in the best way possible for all the shite earlier in the season.

The guy's an incredible talent, a jack of all trades but sadly the master of none, amazing rider though.

Sagan for yellow!!!

Master of none? He is probably the best bike handler and one of the best descenders in the peloton.

 

[Psalmon]

Intermediate sprints the next 3 days will be interesting. Greipel has been out sprinting Sagan in these as you may expect, and with nothing but grupetto to look forward to after each of these, Greipel will be all in to take points and get the jersey back (it helps having the green jersey in the Grupetto too).

Only Wednesday's stage has the sprint 8km after a cat 3 climb (2 at 7%), so here are the scenarios:
- Greipel has to win Tuesday's sprint to at best tie Sagan. That will be a hard fought sprint at 124k. He may get it Tuesday.
- Sagan will get over the Cat 3 Wed, so if Tinkoff is serious about the Vert, look for a bit of pace and for 8km after, Maybe Sagan takes it back
- Early sprint on Thursday, so maybe Greipel gains some back (but if he is caught out on Wed, Sagan will keep it)

Even though they are mountain stages, there will be interesting competitions before.

 

[tann79]

Re:

Even though they are mountain stages, there will be interesting competitions before.

Will we see The Thrilla in Manila ..ehhmm.. Paris ?

 

[Psalmon]

Re: Re:

Even though they are mountain stages, there will be interesting competitions before.

Will we see The Thrilla in Manila ..ehhmm.. Paris ?

Sagan needs to get one or two "0-fers" out of Greipel before Paris. Otherwise he may loose the jersey in Paris. Greipel just took the jersey back, so Peter needs some pace on the cat 3 tomorrow and to do well in the sprint. I wouldn't be surprised if Sagan tries to make the break even in the AM with a teammate, then see him drop back to peloton leaving the teammate up front. It would also help in TS did some tempo up the cat 3 behind to make sure Greipel is dropped. Sagan will need a couple more of these in the transitional stages too. After 16 it's just Paris. Some of this will depend on how AC does in the finish today...

 

[SeriousSam]

2nd to Greg.

 

[Z3lvet]

Re:

2nd to Greg.

Greg doesn´t have to sprint for points everyday, so it was quite obvious who is going to have more energy in the end.

 

[saganftw]

cant really say a bad word about sagan,he looked dead,didnt have a kick at the end...if he gave all theres not much more to ask

 

[King Boonen]

What a surprise, Sagan didn't win.

 

[Vino's Mum]

Re:

cant really say a bad word about sagan,he looked dead,didnt have a kick at the end...if he gave all theres not much more to ask

Yep. GVA held on better, that's all.

Strange to see Sagan appearing to run out of gas, though their legs must've been screaming on that finish, and they were both going pretty slow across the line.

 

[hfer07]

Re: Re:

cant really say a bad word about sagan,he looked dead,didnt have a kick at the end...if he gave all theres not much more to ask

Yep. GVA held on better, that's all.

Strange to see Sagan appearing to run out of gas, though their legs must've been screaming on that finish, and they were both going pretty slow across the line.

mistimed & tired from the previous sprint. I keep insisting is his current approach to racing that is preventing him from winning- he's relying heavily on the last meters, rather than going from a breakaway & or a bursting effort from afar when he gets the terrain in his favor.

 

[Bushman]

Re: Re:

cant really say a bad word about sagan,he looked dead,didnt have a kick at the end...if he gave all theres not much more to ask

Yep. GVA held on better, that's all.

Strange to see Sagan appearing to run out of gas, though their legs must've been screaming on that finish, and they were both going pretty slow across the line.

mistimed & tired from the previous sprint. I keep insisting is his current approach to racing that is preventing him from winning- he's relying heavily on the last meters, rather than going from a breakaway & or a bursting effort from afar when he gets the terrain in his favor.

What should he have done? There is no way he had dropped GVA on the uphill section, following GVA and trying to sprint past him on the flat section was the right thing to do.

 

[Psalmon]

Sagan netted 22 points I think on Greipel today. More net gains possible like that on Stages 14 and 16 depending on size and success of breaks. Greipel or Cav likely to win 15 (Etix and LS will control that stage) and take some back Sunday.

Then 16 17 18 intermediate sprints follow Cat 2 Cat 2 and Cat 1 climbs respectively. So if it follows this pattern, and Sagan can score in the Alps, He could wrap up the Green Jersey even before Paris. At the worst he would just need to score moderately in Paris to minimize the gap and he wins Green. Greipel just can not get over the Cat 2s or steep finishes, but it is conceivable Greipel wins 4 stages and Sagan wins Green.

 

[Sky'sthelimit]

When will Sagan's luck change.

 

[Z3lvet]

Re:

When will Sagan's luck change.

It´s not about luck, it´s about priorities. You can´t fight for green yersey and expect to win stages. Atleast not with a competition like this.

 

[gerundium]

I think he mistimed it actually today. he put his wheel next to Greg but that was like 5 meters before the line. Then he gave up and conceded two bikelengths.

 

[Psalmon]

Re: Re:

When will Sagan's luck change.

It´s not about luck, it´s about priorities. You can´t fight for green yersey and expect to win stages. Atleast not with a competition like this.

What irony. They want to reward stage winners yet the Green competition is what keeps him from winning stages. If Greipel wasn't close and not sprinting every intermediate Sprint, Sagan could cruise and win stages (and Green).

Looked like Sagan had more gas when he linked up with GVA and maybe could have just passed him with momentum, but easy to say from a chair, when you aren't heatstroke and hypoxic after 13 stages. He tried the left after the sit up and then had to go right and there just was not enough at that point. Too bad, great for BMC and GVA.