Teams & Riders Peter Sagan discussion thread.

[mr. tibbs]

Re:

Relax, he'll win on Champs Elysees from a break a la Vino. Oleg will promise him the Aston Martin he promised Majka last year.

Haha this, please. Everything from his riding over the past few months to the interviews linked above are making me a fan of Sagan. As recently as April, though, I was firmly in the anti-Sagan camp. Dude's winning me over, one pedal stroke and light-hearted interview moment at a time.

 

[Miburo]

Sagana didn't do anything wrong in this stage imo. It was 1v25 and he's not a climber.

He rode a brilliant stage, don't forget it was headwind too.

 

[tomorrow]

"I knew the descent from two years ago and from seeing it on television with the Beloki crash. I was again very close. I'm glad because I was going for second place. No, I'm joking. I really don't know what I should do better. I tried everything. I knew I had to try as hard as I could in the descent even if it meant dying. I was the one pulling in the climb because nobody wanted to race with me. When the Lotto went, nobody chased behind him while they all went after me."

How can somebody not like him. I like how he can the better of thinks. Some would cry how nobody wants to play with him, and some just make fun of himself.

 

[ciranda]

Re: Re:

So who is Sagan gonna lose to today? Trentin or Hagen?

Oh, Ruben Plaza it was.

Not sure why you make fun of the guy. He's making the races extremely exciting unlike many others in this tour. You're just beating a dead horse at this point

I'm not making fun of him. Well OK maybe a little bit. I'm a big fan of Sagan though and I would love to see him win a stage but how he constantly manages to throw away stages like these is starting to get both rediculous and funny.

Sagan is great. That prediction was terrible anyway, no one weaker uphill than Trentin and Boasson.

Stop embarassing yourself

Well I thought you were serious. Because if you actually expected Trentin or Boasson to win from that group it would have been a terrible prediction. Some would say an embarrasing prediction. Not me, I just watch the race.

 

[SuperBesse]

Re:

This is even better: Froomey, how are you?

http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/videozone/sporten/v-wielrennen/TourDeFrance/Tour_Opvallend/1.2396311

lol froome is so awkward. doesnt know how to react

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Re:

So who is Sagan gonna lose to today? Trentin or Hagen?

Oh, Ruben Plaza it was.

Not sure why you make fun of the guy. He's making the races extremely exciting unlike many others in this tour. You're just beating a dead horse at this point

I'm not making fun of him. Well OK maybe a little bit. I'm a big fan of Sagan though and I would love to see him win a stage but how he constantly manages to throw away stages like these is starting to get both rediculous and funny.

Sagan is great. That prediction was terrible anyway, no one weaker uphill than Trentin and Boasson.

Stop embarassing yourself

Well I thought you were serious. Because if you actually expected Trentin or Boasson to win from that group it would have been a terrible prediction. Some would say an embarrasing prediction. Not me, I just watch the race.

You should bet on cycling then because according to the bookies Hagen was the second biggest favorite from that group.

 

[TomasC]

Re: Re:

This is even better: Froomey, how are you?

http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/videozone/sporten/v-wielrennen/TourDeFrance/Tour_Opvallend/1.2396311

lol froome is so awkward. doesnt know how to react

Well I for one thought Froome's reaction had been very good

 

[Flamin]

It was great to finally see Sagan in full action on a technical downhill off a 'mountain'. I think this was the first time actually.

Incredible bike handling skills _O_

 

[Netserk]

Re:

It was great to finally see Sagan in full action on a technical downhill off a 'mountain'. I think this was the first time actually.

Incredible bike handling skills _O_

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtpQ_7Bj_YM

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

Relax, he'll win on Champs Elysees from a break a la Vino. Oleg will promise him the Aston Martin he promised Majka last year.

Haha this, please. Everything from his riding over the past few months to the interviews linked above are making me a fan of Sagan. As recently as April, though, I was firmly in the anti-Sagan camp. Dude's winning me over, one pedal stroke and light-hearted interview moment at a time.

Same here. Interview today was hilarious and his racing is winning me over as well.

"I have very good friends in the group. [If] Everybody stay with me then it's very hard to beat everybody, but it's ok," he added on another runner's up position.

lol.
It's true though. I understand his breakaway companions a bit, but they are not going to win this way as well.
From the moment I saw that break I knew that the first that would attack and get a gap would win. As nobody would ride with Sagan among them.
Unless he completely crushes his breakaway companions he can't win since everyone else is looking at him.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

It's not very reasonable to blame riders of other teams trying to do what's best for them, rather than what's best for Sagan.

So wasting your own small chance at winning to make sure the guy with 50% chance of winning lose is in your best interest?

You make it seem like an individual rider's choice in the break boils down to
Don't work: 0% chance to win
Work: >0% chance to win

This is obviously not true, and the reason it's not true is exactly because there are other riders present and it's always much better to follow wheels than be the one to work. It's just not individually rational to work in many situations like that, even though everyone working equally would be collectively better for everyone. The tragedy of the commons applies to riders in a break chasing the guy who wrote away.

What if I told you that you can cooperate a little bit without completely ruining your own chances. If a couple of guys do a little bit of work and keep Plaza closer, Sagan would also be more inclined to do more work, and if you keep Plaza close enough, you might be able to attack and close the gap, etc etc. Wayy more scenarios that way than when nobody does anything and everybody rolls to the line one minute back

Sounds great, you guys do that, I'm gonna hang on at the back and my chance to win will be even higher.

So, you can either work with Sagan to bring back any attackers, knowing that you have no chance in a sprint, or force Sagan to do all the work so he tires himself out, and if he does bring the attacker back, you suddenly have a chance of winning. Third scenario: You work a bit with Sagan, bring back any attackers, then attack yourself. However, if nobody else is prepared to work, you will no longer be the best of the rest as you'll be tired unlike the others, so again it's a no win situation

 

[tomorrow]

well, now I just wonder, when the green is definately sealed unless sagan abandons, if he will be stubborn enough to keep trying to get into the break till the last stage, as he's obviously not going to win in Paris(only in Vino style as somebody already mentioned). From the interviews he looked like he would keep trying.

 

[Captain_Obvious]

Lieven van Gils did a most charming interview with Sagan on Vive Le Velo tonight. It's impossible to not like the guy. I hope it's put online somewhere. Great stuff.

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

It was great to finally see Sagan in full action on a technical downhill off a 'mountain'. I think this was the first time actually.

Incredible bike handling skills _O_

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtpQ_7Bj_YM

There was barely any image of Sagan descending. All focus on Cunego.

 

[Tonton]

Sagan is winning...fans.

 

[Miburo]

Sagan is winning...fans.

I'm a fan since today with his ride and the wolf of wall street reference

 

[Carl0880]

Re: Re:

It's not very reasonable to blame riders of other teams trying to do what's best for them, rather than what's best for Sagan.

S
You make it seem like an individual rider's choice in the break boils down to
Don't work: 0% chance to win
Work: >0% chance to win

This is obviously not true, and the reason it's not true is exactly because there are other riders present and it's always much better to follow wheels than be the one to work. It's just not individually rational to work in many situations like that, even though everyone working equally would be collectively better for everyone. The tragedy of the commons applies to riders in a break chasing the guy who wrote away.

What if I told you that you can cooperate a little bit without completely ruining your own chances. If a couple of guys do a little bit of work and keep Plaza closer, Sagan would also be more inclined to do more work, and if you keep Plaza close enough, you might be able to attack and close the gap, etc etc. Wayy more scenarios that way than when nobody does anything and everybody rolls to the line one minute back

Sounds great, you guys do that, I'm gonna hang on at the back and my chance to win will be even higher.

So, you can either work with Sagan to bring back any attackers, knowing that you have no chance in a sprint, or force Sagan to do all the work so he tires himself out, and if he does bring the attacker back, you suddenly have a chance of winning. Third scenario: You work a bit with Sagan, bring back any attackers, then attack yourself. However, if nobody else is prepared to work, you will no longer be the best of the rest as you'll be tired unlike the others, so again it's a no win situation

The situation today had a ton more factors. If your a guy like Riblon or Pantano, you could sit on Sagan's wheel for the entire stage and may not beat him in a sprint. You are suppose to be better climbers then Sagan, and when Plaza broke away you were on a 6-7 percent gradient. You are far more likely to drop Sagan here instead.

Also, this isn't a one day race or a flat stage. Sagan had been in the break, and a major working part of the break, for 3 consecutive days. We are starting the 3rd week of the Tour. If you don't think you can drop him on a climb with these additional factors, then you never thought you could win in the first place. Now Sagan proved to still be strong afterwards, but you didn't know that beforehand.

Most of the break tried the sitting on and not doing anything to help Sagan tactic today. They ended up with a 0 percent chance of winning, because they could not hold onto Sagan making him do all the work. At least if you attacked you could have been joined by Sagan on the descent, then you could see then your tactics to try and catch Plaza.

 

[Lance Armstrong]

So that's is why he is on attack every day:

After the exchange, Sagan was asked why he went into the breakaway for a third straight day, replying because "I have big balls" leaving the interviewer stunned before letting out a nervous laugh and continuing on.

 

[joe_papp]

Re: Re:

It's not very reasonable to blame riders of other teams trying to do what's best for them, rather than what's best for Sagan.

So wasting your own small chance at winning to make sure the guy with 50% chance of winning lose is in your best interest?

Not to mention the potential to bank a favor w/ Sagan & Tinkoff|Saxo for somewhere down the road. Of course, why didn't Sagan try to buy some help in the final 10kms or whatever anyway? Surely he could've secured services of at least one of his breakaway companions for the right price, to be paid only on event of PS's winning the stage (1/2 payment if work is done but he still fails to win).

 

[Tonton]

Re: Re:

It's not very reasonable to blame riders of other teams trying to do what's best for them, rather than what's best for Sagan.

So wasting your own small chance at winning to make sure the guy with 50% chance of winning lose is in your best interest?

Not to mention the potential to bank a favor w/ Sagan & Tinkoff|Saxo for somewhere down the road. Of course, why didn't Sagan try to buy some help in the final 10kms or whatever anyway? Surely he could've secured services of at least one of his breakaway companions for the right price, to be paid only on event of PS's winning the stage (1/2 payment if work is done but he still fails to win).

Oleg's too cheap. Vino would have cut a deal .

 

[Carl0880]

Re: Re:

Oleg's too cheap. Vino would have cut a deal .

Oleg would complain that any additional money and Sagan be required to win the Tour with what he spent.

I really want to see Sagan attempt a Elysses breakaway style a la Vino. As long as he has the green jersey locked, he hasn't shown he can win a mass sprint again the sprinters, but I think he does have the power to pull that off. Just need that moment of hesitation on the peleton.

 

[TomLPC]

Not sure if it's been posted yet, here is Sagan's descent. Beautiful cycling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHgeNu5Gq-c

 

[KGB]

Now he'll just put chery on top his cake with win in Paris sprint..He'll show what 'be soson'' means!!

 

[Martin]

Lieven van Gils did a most charming interview with Sagan on Vive Le Velo tonight. It's impossible to not like the guy. I hope it's put online somewhere. Great stuff.

Here: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yMSBhxhjpFU

 

[Ludwig's Olaf]

Re:

Rider of the TDF - To be in breakaways for 3 consecutive days, and still be fighting for the stage finish is awesome.

That was more like half the peloton than a breakaway, and the main field did not chase. A recreative ride but for the last gentle climb. How much did the main contenders pull back on Sagan on the climb and descent? Three, four minutes? Sagan's team told him the Spanish guy pulled out too much time, but he could not chase him down uphill on his own. That simple. If it had been a Contador in this breakaway, he would have gotten assistance by other riders, because he pays back such debts. Sagan doesn't, and the more 2nd places he collects, the crazier he's becoming. What's he trying to do, anyway? The green jersey can't be taken from him anymore, he can't win a stage with a moderate hill towards the end, so why doesn't he stay with his team?