Teams & Riders Peter Sagan discussion thread.

[RedheadDane]

Re: Re:

I can't believe there are still cycling fans that don't like him. He is the best thing that happened to cycling in the last decade or so.

I'm warming up a little bit to him this year, because of how he races. People grew to dislike him because of some issues off the bike and for instance things like the wheelies he used to do, which made him come across as an arrogant *. Arrogance completely misplaced because he consistently came up short in the biggest races. I got annoyed when people acted like he was some amazing aggressive racer when really guys like Vanmarcke, Boonen, GVA, Cance have been much more aggressive in the classics. I don't really care about his WC either, because it was a terrible edition anyway. I mean, given the race that he had, he did nothing wrong, but it was a very easy edition and he attacked just a few km off the finish; good win for him, but really not very special.

But why would making wheelies make him come off as arrogant, even if he (used to) fall(s) short in the big races? Is there a minimum amount of big races you must have won before you're allowed to make wheelies?
Besides, in some cases it - to me - seems like the opposite of arrogance. For example when he's 20 minutes behind on his way up some big climb and basically goes "Well... *** this! Not gonna win today, might as well have a bit of fun." People watching it seem to find it rather funny as well.

And I don't really see anything wrong with him liking attention either. Especially since it might take focus away from others who don't like it. He's just a very extrovert person.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

But why would making wheelies make him come off as arrogant, even if he (used to) fall(s) short in the big races? Is there a minimum amount of big races you must have won before you're allowed to make wheelies?
Besides, in some cases it - to me - seems like the opposite of arrogance. For example when he's 20 minutes behind on his way up some big climb and basically goes "Well... **** this! Not gonna win today, might as well have a bit of fun." People watching it seem to find it rather funny as well.

I just see it as "well, I can't be the centre of attention for being good today, so I'll make sure people look at me. LOOK AT ME, GUYS! I'M PULLING A WHEELIE!"

"MOM!!! MOM!!! YOU'RE NOT LOOKING!"

And I don't really see anything wrong with him liking attention either. Especially since it might take focus away from others who don't like it. He's just a very extrovert person.

I have never liked that kind of person, and because he's quite an extreme example of it, my dislike is quite extreme. He belongs in a file with the likes of Cristiano Ronaldo to me.

 

[Vino's Mum]

Re: Re:

an attention whore

This is irony, right?

Every time Sagan wins a race, you write the same post, and repeat it several times, as you are now. All this generates plenty of replies, and diverts the thread into a discussion all about you and your dislike of Sagan.

Please, give it a rest. It's incredibly boring.

 

[RedheadDane]

Re: Re:

But why would making wheelies make him come off as arrogant, even if he (used to) fall(s) short in the big races? Is there a minimum amount of big races you must have won before you're allowed to make wheelies?
Besides, in some cases it - to me - seems like the opposite of arrogance. For example when he's 20 minutes behind on his way up some big climb and basically goes "Well... **** this! Not gonna win today, might as well have a bit of fun." People watching it seem to find it rather funny as well.

I just see it as "well, I can't be the centre of attention for being good today, so I'll make sure people look at me. LOOK AT ME, GUYS! I'M PULLING A WHEELIE!"

"MOM!!! MOM!!! YOU'RE NOT LOOKING!"

If people have been standing on that climb for who knows how long, with all the riders being in anyway contenders for the stage win as well as GC long gone, then he might as well give those people something to look at, as well as his Gruppetto-companions a bit of fun. It's not like he's taking focus away from the race.

 

[SeriousSam]

Not boring at all. The mystery of LS's Sagan aversion yet remains. I still feel like there must be something beyond Sagan's narcissism and attention whoring that is causing it, given that those are traits that sports and other competitive environments select for, making them riddled with self centered individuals.

 

[Cannibal72]

Re: Re:

an attention whore

This is irony, right?

Every time Sagan wins a race, you write the same post, and repeat it several times, as you are now. All this generates plenty of replies, and diverts the thread into a discussion all about you and your dislike of Sagan.

Please, give it a rest. It's incredibly boring.

To be fair, every time Sagan wins a race, someone jumps in with an explicit or implicit reference to LS' dislike for Sagan. Yes, they were vocal about it to start with, but it's hard to blame them for responding when two-thirds of the posts on this thread are unsubtly referencing them or (sometimes a little passive-aggressively) challenging them to justify their opinion, while rather defensively asserting contrary opinions.

(I'm only defending LS because they criticised Cristiano Ronaldo, which will win anyone a place in my heart.)

 

[Nick C.]

Weren't the issues with Sagan from the first year he rode the Tour and had the assorted celebrations after his multiple stage wins. The only one I remember now was the Hulk one. My recollection is that several riders like Cancellara commented to the effect that it was not their cup of tea, so to speak.

In fairness to him McEwen did the 'running man' after a stage win and we heard nothing, but it wasn't McEwen's first Tour.

 

[Vino's Mum]

Re: Re:

To be fair, every time Sagan wins a race...

LS's post in the race thread, a minute after Sagan's win at the Worlds:

I hate cycling. **** this sport. **** everything to do with this sport. **** that guy and anyone who likes him and defends him.

Open the link, there's pages more of the same. It's tiresome.

 

[Billie]

Re:

Weren't the issues with Sagan from the first year he rode the Tour and had the assorted celebrations after his multiple stage wins. The only one I remember now was the Hulk one. My recollection is that several riders like Cancellara commented to the effect that it was not their cup of tea, so to speak.

In fairness to him McEwen did the 'running man' after a stage win and we heard nothing, but it wasn't McEwen's first Tour.

Contador does the pistol. Flecha did the arrow and bow. Cav did the middle finger. Let them celebrate however they want.

 

[Bushman]

Libertine,

I would like to hear when Sagan has done anything "unlikeable" during the last year or so. For example celebrating too wildly or arrogantly, drawing unnecessary attention or something like that. I'm saying this because I honestly cannot remember such a situation with him. I understand why you may not like him for some of his actions (the podium thing in E3 (wasn't it?) was a massive f*ckup, I agree). But saying he hasn't matured but only enhanced his PR skills seems very rough on him to me.

Simply I believe that we just perceive his actions and motives in such different ways that we will never agree on this. And that is alright, you can't agree with everyone all the time. I can understand that you can dislike his wheelies and cocky celebrations if you perceive them as actions of arrogance, lack of respectfulness towards his competitors or heavy attention-seeking. However, I simply dont interpret his actions in such a way. There is no doubt that Sagan likes the attention, no doubt. But when I see him making a wheelie in the Grupetto on Alp d'huez, I don't see a rider hungering for attention, I see a rider who first and foremost likes to have fun on the bike and who wants to give something to the spectators, to his fans. I believe his motive for doing this is that he likes the feeling of giving something back to his fans and when he can't win the least he can do is entertain.

Another thing: I have never (unless my memory fails me) seen or heard Sagan being disrespectful towards his competitors. In defeat he is always humble and respectful towards fellow bike riders. Even when he has had a reason to be p*ssed off (when he time and time again is marked out of the race) I have never heard him criticising his opponents. He is always positive, or at least attempts to be so, even when things aren't going his why.

Comparing him with Cristiano Ronaldo is unfair IMO. As much as I admire Ronaldo for his hard work and dedication and will to win, I can't stand his attitude. He is a sore loser, he looks like a crybaby when he is struggling and he is very selfish on the pitch. Sagan on the other hand is, as I explained above, IMO very respectful towards opponents but also towards his teammates. I dont recall him calling his team out even though he has been let down quite a few times in his career already and when his team does a proper job he is the first one to praise them.

I respect that people have different opinions and that you won't ever agree with me but sometimes I can't help but feel that you are blinded by negative feelings towards Sagan from past actions and therefore you interpret every action of him in a negative way. The same could probably be said the other way around for those who are fans of Peter Sagan, though. So I dont really know where this post is leading.

 

[Cannibal72]

Re: Re:

To be fair, every time Sagan wins a race...

LS's post in the race thread, a minute after Sagan's win at the Worlds:

I hate cycling. **** this sport. **** everything to do with this sport. **** that guy and anyone who likes him and defends him.

Open the link, there's pages more of the same. It's tiresome.

1) Hyperbole's a thing, you know.

2) LS only continued after being directly asked about their attitude.

 

[Red Rick]

Aaaaand another thread turns to ***

 

[DonEsteban]

Soo, lets move back on topic.

Although Sagan recently does not have high win %, it seems to me the attacks/breaks he is in/he initiated have incredibly high chance of staying ahead of the peloton till the very end. Anybody has the numbers?

When was the last time he was in a significant move that was brought back? I remember the Tour the France stage last year where Kwiatkovski caught him and then sat, but otherwise I am drawing blanks ...

 

[Billie]

Bodnar looked really bad today.

Gatto and Brutt (incredible ride by him in GW) are the only two teammates who even have a chance to make it over 2nd ascent of Kwaremont and Pater on Sunday. He'll most likely even be alone but he must be used to it by now.

 

[trucido]

Re:

Bodnar looked really bad today.

Gatto and Brutt (incredible ride by him in GW) are the only two teammates who even have a chance to make it over 2nd ascent of Kwaremont and Pater on Sunday. He'll most likely even be alone but he must be used to it by now.

He won't be alone, that's what Cancellara's back wheel is for

 

[Kwibus]

Re:

Libertine,

I would like to hear when Sagan has done anything "unlikeable" during the last year or so. For example celebrating too wildly or arrogantly, drawing unnecessary attention or something like that. I'm saying this because I honestly cannot remember such a situation with him. I understand why you may not like him for some of his actions (the podium thing in E3 (wasn't it?) was a massive f*ckup, I agree). But saying he hasn't matured but only enhanced his PR skills seems very rough on him to me.

Simply I believe that we just perceive his actions and motives in such different ways that we will never agree on this. And that is alright, you can't agree with everyone all the time. I can understand that you can dislike his wheelies and cocky celebrations if you perceive them as actions of arrogance, lack of respectfulness towards his competitors or heavy attention-seeking. However, I simply dont interpret his actions in such a way. There is no doubt that Sagan likes the attention, no doubt. But when I see him making a wheelie in the Grupetto on Alp d'huez, I don't see a rider hungering for attention, I see a rider who first and foremost likes to have fun on the bike and who wants to give something to the spectators, to his fans. I believe his motive for doing this is that he likes the feeling of giving something back to his fans and when he can't win the least he can do is entertain.

Another thing: I have never (unless my memory fails me) seen or heard Sagan being disrespectful towards his competitors. In defeat he is always humble and respectful towards fellow bike riders. Even when he has had a reason to be p*ssed off (when he time and time again is marked out of the race) I have never heard him criticising his opponents. He is always positive, or at least attempts to be so, even when things aren't going his why.

Comparing him with Cristiano Ronaldo is unfair IMO. As much as I admire Ronaldo for his hard work and dedication and will to win, I can't stand his attitude. He is a sore loser, he looks like a crybaby when he is struggling and he is very selfish on the pitch. Sagan on the other hand is, as I explained above, IMO very respectful towards opponents but also towards his teammates. I dont recall him calling his team out even though he has been let down quite a few times in his career already and when his team does a proper job he is the first one to praise them.

I respect that people have different opinions and that you won't ever agree with me but sometimes I can't help but feel that you are blinded by negative feelings towards Sagan from past actions and therefore you interpret every action of him in a negative way. The same could probably be said the other way around for those who are fans of Peter Sagan, though. So I dont really know where this post is leading.

Excellent post. I tried to make a post like this yesterday, but couldn't find the right words.

Saying Sagan is a narcist is just plain wrong, if he was one then he wouldn't be humble in defeat. Also his racing mentality absolutely suggest otherwise. Race to have fun and entertain, instead of racing like an egoist and win a lot more.
Actually the guy is an extravert who likes to give. Positive energy most of the time, ofcourse for some that might look differently, but that's how I see it.

 

[Kwibus]

Re:

Soo, lets move back on topic.

Although Sagan recently does not have high win %, it seems to me the attacks/breaks he is in/he initiated have incredibly high chance of staying ahead of the peloton till the very end. Anybody has the numbers?

When was the last time he was in a significant move that was brought back? I remember the Tour the France stage last year where Kwiatkovski caught him and then sat, but otherwise I am drawing blanks ...

Attacking in Flanders is usually rewarded as chasing ia just increibly hard and at the end of the final climb the strongest are usually upfront while the people that got dropped have to chase them. While they usually have the numbers they tend to be weaker.
Main reason why flanders racing is great. Allthough with sunny weather with no wind G-W is a sprinters race far from entertaining. Some of the flanders races need bad weather to be interesting.

 

[DonEsteban]

Re: Re:

Soo, lets move back on topic.

Although Sagan recently does not have high win %, it seems to me the attacks/breaks he is in/he initiated have incredibly high chance of staying ahead of the peloton till the very end. Anybody has the numbers?

When was the last time he was in a significant move that was brought back? I remember the Tour the France stage last year where Kwiatkovski caught him and then sat, but otherwise I am drawing blanks ...

Attacking in Flanders is usually rewarded as chasing ia just increibly hard and at the end of the final climb the strongest are usually upfront while the people that got dropped have to chase them. While they usually have the numbers they tend to be weaker.
Main reason why flanders racing is great. Allthough with sunny weather with no wind G-W is a sprinters race far from entertaining. Some of the flanders races need bad weather to be interesting.

I am not talking about the Flanders only ... Strade Bianche, Tireeno-Adriatico stages, worlds, Tour de France stages ...

 

[Carols]

LS wrote:
Maybe he's been better in 2016 (I have been trying to avoid him because I always end up getting into the kind of argument I can sense I'm about to spark again now), but the off-bike sycophancy remains just as unbearable. "How can anyone dislike him?" Very easily, thank you for asking.

Someday I may warm up to him, but today is Not that day

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

To be fair, every time Sagan wins a race, someone jumps in with an explicit or implicit reference to LS' dislike for Sagan. Yes, they were vocal about it to start with, but it's hard to blame them for responding when two-thirds of the posts on this thread are unsubtly referencing them or (sometimes a little passive-aggressively) challenging them to justify their opinion, while rather defensively asserting contrary opinions.

A thousand times this.

 

[ABRider]

Re: Re:

an attention whore

This is irony, right?

Every time Sagan wins a race, you write the same post, and repeat it several times, as you are now. All this generates plenty of replies, and diverts the thread into a discussion all about you and your dislike of Sagan.

Please, give it a rest. It's incredibly boring.

Thank you! I have been reading this column for years and have posted twice. Both because LS won't let up on Sagan.
He has matured, as he should, with age. He's having fun, he brings life to the sport, like Agasse did to Tennis.
We get it. LS hates him. It's the "Peter Sagan Discussion Thread", not as though he was mentioned inadvertently in someone else's thread and LS felt the need to comment. Why is he/she even here?

 

[trucido]

Re: Re:

To be fair, every time Sagan wins a race, someone jumps in with an explicit or implicit reference to LS' dislike for Sagan. Yes, they were vocal about it to start with, but it's hard to blame them for responding when two-thirds of the posts on this thread are unsubtly referencing them or (sometimes a little passive-aggressively) challenging them to justify their opinion, while rather defensively asserting contrary opinions.

A thousand times this.

The LS dislike is the same thing that happens to Peter when people call him 2agan, eternal second, Sagand etc. Then when you call them out after they'll claim they were just joking it or it was for fun etc.

Of course the only difference is LS has the inclination to respond, whereas Sagan probably doesn't give a rats or is even aware he has a thread on some forum.

 

[RedheadDane]

Re: Re:

To be fair, every time Sagan wins a race, someone jumps in with an explicit or implicit reference to LS' dislike for Sagan. Yes, they were vocal about it to start with, but it's hard to blame them for responding when two-thirds of the posts on this thread are unsubtly referencing them or (sometimes a little passive-aggressively) challenging them to justify their opinion, while rather defensively asserting contrary opinions.

A thousand times this.

The LS dislike is the same thing that happens to Peter when people call him 2agan, eternal second, Sagand etc. Then when you call them out after they'll claim they were just joking it or it was for fun etc.

Of course the only difference is LS has the inclination to respond, whereas Sagan probably doesn't give a rats or is even aware he has a thread on some forum.

And both things also happens for a reason. People (including myself) make fun of LS' dislike for Sagan because LS has been pretty vocal about it. Otherwise we wouldn't even know it was a "thing".

Same with people making fun of Sagan becoming second; he does have a tendency to be second.
Which kinda brings me back to whether or not he's an attention whore. Thing is; he can't help but getting attention! He gets attention for all his second places, and he gets attention when he (finally) wins a race. For several years now he's been getting attention for the fact that his Monument win is "long overdue".

 

[pedromiguelmartins]

Re: Re:

To be fair, every time Sagan wins a race, someone jumps in with an explicit or implicit reference to LS' dislike for Sagan. Yes, they were vocal about it to start with, but it's hard to blame them for responding when two-thirds of the posts on this thread are unsubtly referencing them or (sometimes a little passive-aggressively) challenging them to justify their opinion, while rather defensively asserting contrary opinions.

A thousand times this.

What? Are we talking with childs or what?

The fact of the matter is that LS has some weird irrational things going on, and it is disgusting, actually. It's called stupidity. Just read the post that was linked to Sagan's win at the WC.

Sagan is a tremendous, fantastic rider that brings a lot to the spectacle. Any time he was disrespectful or behaved poorly he had to eat and digest a lot of hate and scrutiny for that. He payed for that.

Now, no one has to "like" him, even if there's nothing rational behind liking cycling and "not liking" Peter. He is the best that cycling has to offer and represents it very well.

However, DISLIKING the guy and agreeing/defending someone that said "*** him, *** the worlds and *** everyone that likes him and this sport" just says anything that needs to be said about you.

 

[TomasC]

I love that the forum now actually does not need LS to show up to initiate this kind of discussion