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ahahaha that wasn't matching. That was putting fabian on the ropes.Cance > TheRest said:
I noticed something remarkably different in how Sagan rode this final compared to Omloop, Strade and E3, where he was beaten in the end every time. Today he rode the last 2 k really slow, tried to avoid getting to the front and when he got the front he kept the pace really slow. I believe that was a big part of the reason that he was able to sprint well at the end as it had given him a bit of recovery time, which he apparently needs to finish it off. In E3 and Omloop the peloton was getting really close which forced him to ride hard all the way which lead to his lack of power in the end (i believe).
This is positive in the sense that he has recognised a weakness of his and is trying to work out a solution for this but I still dont think he has fixed his 'cant sprint after a tough race' problem entirely. In a race like Flanders I can't imagine a scenario, unless Sagan and Cancellara completely destroys the race, where Sagan can afford to ride slowly and recover before the sprint as the chase after Paterberg will be hectic.
Some big positives from these races though. Sagan was the only one to follow Cancellara and even put him into trouble on the last part of the Kemmelberg today and Friday he was the only one capable of following the attack of Kwiatkowski (Sagan also came around Kwiatkowski and countered his attack IIRC). He certainly looks like one of the 2 or 3 strongest and most explosive riders on the cobbled climbs. IMO he should go on the attack rather than ride defensively; follow wheels on Oude Kwaremont and then go all out on Paterberg. I think he can drop everyone bar Cancellara and maybe GVA (or Kwiatkowski, could be a dark horse if he is in great shape).
This is positive in the sense that he has recognised a weakness of his and is trying to work out a solution for this but I still dont think he has fixed his 'cant sprint after a tough race' problem entirely. In a race like Flanders I can't imagine a scenario, unless Sagan and Cancellara completely destroys the race, where Sagan can afford to ride slowly and recover before the sprint as the chase after Paterberg will be hectic.
Some big positives from these races though. Sagan was the only one to follow Cancellara and even put him into trouble on the last part of the Kemmelberg today and Friday he was the only one capable of following the attack of Kwiatkowski (Sagan also came around Kwiatkowski and countered his attack IIRC). He certainly looks like one of the 2 or 3 strongest and most explosive riders on the cobbled climbs. IMO he should go on the attack rather than ride defensively; follow wheels on Oude Kwaremont and then go all out on Paterberg. I think he can drop everyone bar Cancellara and maybe GVA (or Kwiatkowski, could be a dark horse if he is in great shape).
- Apr 17, 2013
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Sunday will be interesting!
We can only speculate. Let's not forget that it was Fabian who kept the Stybar/GVA/Rowe away, after they had gotten the 20meter gap on Kemmelberg. To me that shows that Fabian was not 'on the ropes' on Kemmelberg - otherwise he has an otherworldly recovery.pedromiguelmartins said:
Sunday will be interesting!
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Peter feels the acid, and goes even harder (that climb) to the red line but then needs recovery.
It seems to me that Peter would've dropped Fabian there, but then Fabs would've caught him. When Fabian is on form like this.. I never saw anyone drop him 1 Vs 1 on those cobbles.
Let's tune in next Sunday to see Sagan drop him on the Patenberg and then be caught on the flat, and win in the sprint. Avatar bet?
The thing that I love about Fabian is that when he is feeling the lactic acid, he just puts the hammer down anyway and stays there, in pain, for longer.Cance > TheRest said:
Peter feels the acid, and goes even harder (that climb) to the red line but then needs recovery.
It seems to me that Peter would've dropped Fabian there, but then Fabs would've caught him. When Fabian is on form like this.. I never saw anyone drop him 1 Vs 1 on those cobbles.
Let's tune in next Sunday to see Sagan drop him on the Patenberg and then be caught on the flat, and win in the sprint. Avatar bet?
- Mar 17, 2012
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This already been here, that everyone said if Sagan survived kwaremont, he would drop Fabian on paterberg, I was amongst them, but the race revealed that with the paterberg it's same as with sprint after tough race. So you cannot compare paterberg when fresh and paterberg after 240 very tough kms. And seeing how Sagan can sprint when exhausted, I thing he will be very glad to stay with Fabian on the last paterberg.pedromiguelmartins said:
You might be right, tomorrow. If there's a big selection (only 2 or 3 left) on the kwaremont and Fabs puts the hammer down on the Patenberg, it might be too soon for Peter.
- Apr 17, 2013
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Exactly. The harder Fabian races, the tougher it will be for Sagan to stay with him. Yesterday nothing had happened up until Kemmelberg and so it is not a surprise that Sagan had the explosiveness to create a narrow 1 meter gap between him and Fabian. Flanders is a different race, and obviously Kwaremont suits Fabian more than Peter - I am sure it will be the same tactics as in 2013, if Trek manages to keep things together for the finale.tomorrow said:
- Oct 23, 2011
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I'm warming up a little bit to him this year, because of how he races. People grew to dislike him because of some issues off the bike and for instance things like the wheelies he used to do, which made him come across as an arrogant ***. Arrogance completely misplaced because he consistently came up short in the biggest races. I got annoyed when people acted like he was some amazing aggressive racer when really guys like Vanmarcke, Boonen, GVA, Cance have been much more aggressive in the classics. I don't really care about his WC either, because it was a terrible edition anyway. I mean, given the race that he had, he did nothing wrong, but it was a very easy edition and he attacked just a few km off the finish; good win for him, but really not very special.
Anyway, I have to acknowledge that this year he's been riding very well. His ride at GW really surprised me. I didn't think he had it in him to ride like this in a 240km race with a very long finale. But even before that at E3, Strade and the opening weekend, he rode very well, taking initiative, attacking from quite far out. He's developing into a proper classics rider. That development is certainly positive for me!
johnymax said:
I'm warming up a little bit to him this year, because of how he races. People grew to dislike him because of some issues off the bike and for instance things like the wheelies he used to do, which made him come across as an arrogant ***. Arrogance completely misplaced because he consistently came up short in the biggest races. I got annoyed when people acted like he was some amazing aggressive racer when really guys like Vanmarcke, Boonen, GVA, Cance have been much more aggressive in the classics. I don't really care about his WC either, because it was a terrible edition anyway. I mean, given the race that he had, he did nothing wrong, but it was a very easy edition and he attacked just a few km off the finish; good win for him, but really not very special.
Anyway, I have to acknowledge that this year he's been riding very well. His ride at GW really surprised me. I didn't think he had it in him to ride like this in a 240km race with a very long finale. But even before that at E3, Strade and the opening weekend, he rode very well, taking initiative, attacking from quite far out. He's developing into a proper classics rider. That development is certainly positive for me!
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Your comment shows pretty much how little you've watched of him. And Sep aside (who only ever shows up during the classics season anyway), all the others you mentioned are at least 4 years older with much more professional experience. It's not like he loses in the aggressive racing category to them prior to this year either.
And your comment about his WC win is ridiculous. What does he have to do to win "special"? Front wheelie into forward flip bike throw on the line in a bunch sprint?
Maaaaaaaarten said:
Your comment shows pretty much how little you've watched of him. And Sep aside (who only ever shows up during the classics season anyway), all the others you mentioned are at least 4 years older with much more professional experience. It's not like he loses in the aggressive racing category to them prior to this year either.
And your comment about his WC win is ridiculous. What does he have to do to win "special"? Front wheelie into forward flip bike throw on the line in a bunch sprint?
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- Feb 20, 2010
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And the fact that people seem to think that not only is this behaviour likable, but people who AREN'T won over by this moronic clowning around are somehow defective for not being so, only exacerbates things. Maybe he's been better in 2016 (I have been trying to avoid him because I always end up getting into the kind of argument I can sense I'm about to spark again now), but the off-bike sycophancy remains just as unbearable. "How can anyone dislike him?" Very easily, thank you for asking.
He's an awesome bike rider. He adds a lot to races. He's an amazing talent. But I absolutely despise him, and want him to go away and never return and be roundly ignored forevermore.
It's not that he's stopped being a douchebag and an attention whore, it's that he's changed the way he shows it so that it is less abrasive. Literally everything about the way he acts, conducts and comports himself screams "LOOK AT ME!" to me, and that hasn't changed. He's just had to tone it down because he went too far over the line and his profile got too big for him to get away with it anymore. That doesn't tell me he's matured, that tells me he's learnt a bit about PR. It's not about holding a grudge for youthful mistakes, it's that I don't see him as being likable now.DFA123 said:
And the fact that people seem to think that not only is this behaviour likable, but people who AREN'T won over by this moronic clowning around are somehow defective for not being so, only exacerbates things. Maybe he's been better in 2016 (I have been trying to avoid him because I always end up getting into the kind of argument I can sense I'm about to spark again now), but the off-bike sycophancy remains just as unbearable. "How can anyone dislike him?" Very easily, thank you for asking.
He's an awesome bike rider. He adds a lot to races. He's an amazing talent. But I absolutely despise him, and want him to go away and never return and be roundly ignored forevermore.
- May 25, 2010
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I can understand you dislike him, but your overreacting reaches "moronic clowning" levels as well.
I'm sorry as I highly respect most of your posts and thoughts, but this hating because he's a bit of a childish showoff is also quite ridiculous. So maybe stick to your plan to avoid anything regarding him.
He sure has unlikeable traits, but he's also a guy with his heart at the right place. Unable to express himself properly in english though.
I can understand you dislike him, but your overreacting reaches "moronic clowning" levels as well.
I'm sorry as I highly respect most of your posts and thoughts, but this hating because he's a bit of a childish showoff is also quite ridiculous. So maybe stick to your plan to avoid anything regarding him.
He sure has unlikeable traits, but he's also a guy with his heart at the right place. Unable to express himself properly in english though.
- Feb 20, 2010
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If you think that his behaviour can be tolerated because of his talent as a rider and the factor he adds to races, I get that. I disagree, but I'm happy to respect that. But those who think his off-bike behaviour is something that should not just be accepted but actually celebrated, even promoted, I will never be able to reconcile with, nor do I have any intention of trying to.
Thank you for at least acknowledging that there are perfectly good reasons not to like him. Because as I pointed out, the fact that we're repeatedly treated to love-ins about how it's impossible to dislike him only makes things worse.Kwibus said:
If you think that his behaviour can be tolerated because of his talent as a rider and the factor he adds to races, I get that. I disagree, but I'm happy to respect that. But those who think his off-bike behaviour is something that should not just be accepted but actually celebrated, even promoted, I will never be able to reconcile with, nor do I have any intention of trying to.
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