Teams & Riders Peter Sagan discussion thread.

[del1962]

Re:

Gotta, say, some might not like this, but Cancellara made all sorts of public statements a few years ago about Sagan not pulling in a few classics, especially when he beat Cancellera. After that, Sagan always does his share since. In fact, too much. Now Sagan is seeing what it is like to have guys not pull. Whether they had two riders the previous day or not in that break away...Van Avermaet needs to stop patting himself on the back. He has literally sat on and not done anything the past many races where he beat Sagan, yet he thinks he is a better racer and said he gained confidence that he can "beat" Sagan. haha..I find this hilarious. Sit on 4 guys wheels, never take a pull, then brag/claim how great you are. Sad actually coming from a Belgium. I would say Merck likely isn't impressed with that.

Not taking anything away from Van Avermaet, but his tactics of sitting on the back and refusing to pull is pretty much proof of his inability to face off with the best riders 1-1 and when there are no other riders with them to help Greg out. More power to him though, if those are his orders from the team and race tactics, so be it to get you a win. That is what he is paid to do for him team, win.

Sagan said it best though about the entire stage race, if they didn't cancel the mountain stage due to weather, none of the guys who were in contention for the overall, himself/Van Avermaet, would had ever happened, they would have been off the back in the climbs and never finished within 5-10 minutes of the leaders.

One race where Greg sat on because of tem tactics, whar about the other times he has beaten Sagan head to head,.

I do agree that Sagan takes a lot more pulls on the front that he needs to, he should take his turns but sometimes you feel he does much more work than others in the group

 

[animir]

some statistics from TA:
- Sagan was the most consistent rider
- Sagan has beaten GVA in two sprints (stage 2 - for the second place and stage 4 for the seventh place)
- Sagan has beaten GVA in ITT
- Sagan had the best ITT from all top ten GC riders

- Sagan was beaten in one sprint by GVA ( stage 6 - for the first place - yes that one from the break)
- Sagan was beaten in GC by GVA by one second...

 

[Carstenbf]

Let's just remind ourselves that podium'ing most of the starts you have is at least somewhat of a positive problem, no?

Personally I'll never forget his display in the '15 Tour. Some people were laughing and ridiculing. For me it was one of the more impressive displays I've had the pleasure of witnessing during my 20+ years of watching cycling.

 

[Red Rick]

Yup, I don't think there's any reason to be laughing now, he won the biggest one last year, and in great fashion. He'll be ready for the classics. It's gonna be hard though, Sanremo is likely too easy without le Manie, and Cancellara is looking beastlike for Vlaanderen and Roubaix

 

[del1962]

Re:

Yup, I don't think there's any reason to be laughing now, he won the biggest one last year, and in great fashion. He'll be ready for the classics. It's gonna be hard though, Sanremo is likely too easy without le Manie, and Cancellara is looking beastlike for Vlaanderen and Roubaix

He just needs to be more cute if he is in a break with Canc

 

[Gloin22]

I don't see how he can win any monuments this year, his sprint after tough race is hilariously weakened, I bet Cancellara will able to outsprint him in Ronde or even Roubaix. MSR, he'll be beaten by someone faster, as ever.

 

[Volderke]

Re:

Let's just remind ourselves that podium'ing most of the starts you have is at least somewhat of a positive problem, no?

I think that is because people judge riders by their potential. Sagan's potential is to win, and to win a lot.
When he is collecting podium places, he will get criticized for not winning.

When another rider with less potential gets a podium, he will be applauded.

 

[DFA123]

He's just too honest as a rider. Having such a fast sprint, he holds all the aces really. He can sit at the back of a group and not do much work, knowing that he would still have a great shot at winning if it all came back together.

He also should look at how Kristoff and Degenkolb won RVV and PR last year. They made decisive moves themselves, but both were highly calculated before. They both waited until Terpstra went and immediately got on his wheel - identifying that he was the rider most likely to be there at the finish. Sagan seems to attack at strange times, which don't suit his strengths. Then he compounds the problem by working too hard.

Still, he's great to watch - certainly better than he would be if he raced with more conservative (and probably better) tactics.

 

[carolina]

I think one of the big problems is the fact that other riders refuse to work with him. Just look at last year Tour. He was in a group with degenkolb and kristoff, but when stybar attacked everyone just looked at him and waited for him to pursuit. Fast forward to the stage plaza won, everyone that was in the break with him refused to help him catch plaza. They rather lose the stage, then work with him and have a tiny chance of winning.

I can't even imagine how frustrating it must be for him.

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

In the classics I don't think his problem is his tactics or others not cooperating necessarily, imo he just hasn't been good enough last few years. In easier editions where he can sprint, he consistently gets outsprinted; Degenkolb and Kristoff are simply faster, especially after a lot of kilometers. In tough editions he consistently gets dropped; whether it be Cancellara, Terpstra, Vanmarcke, Van Avermaet etc. if one of these guys has a strong year they're just a notch above Sagan for RVV and PR and they'll drop him every time.

Until Sagan improves his endurance so that he can deal with Canc, Terpstra, Vanmarcke etc. in tough editions with long finales, or until he improves his sprint so that he can win against Degenkolb and Kristoff, I just don't see him winning a 250km+ classic.......

 

[trucido]

Re:

I think one of the big problems is the fact that other riders refuse to work with him. Just look at last year Tour. He was in a group with degenkolb and kristoff, but when stybar attacked everyone just looked at him and waited for him to pursuit. Fast forward to the stage plaza won, everyone that was in the break with him refused to help him catch plaza. They rather lose the stage, then work with him and have a tiny chance of winning.

I can't even imagine how frustrating it must be for him.

He needs to spend some time with Gerrans or in the immediate term glue himself to Matthews's wheel in MSR.

He can then proclaim later after coming 4th how he had enough legs left to win but somehow didn't.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

In the classics I don't think his problem is his tactics or others not cooperating necessarily, imo he just hasn't been good enough last few years. In easier editions where he can sprint, he consistently gets outsprinted; Degenkolb and Kristoff are simply faster, especially after a lot of kilometers. In tough editions he consistently gets dropped; whether it be Cancellara, Terpstra, Vanmarcke, Van Avermaet etc. if one of these guys has a strong year they're just a notch above Sagan for RVV and PR and they'll drop him every time.

Until Sagan improves his endurance so that he can deal with Canc, Terpstra, Vanmarcke etc. in tough editions with long finales, or until he improves his sprint so that he can win against Degenkolb and Kristoff, I just don't see him winning a 250km+ classic.......

The counter argument to that would be to look at the Worlds last year. Perhaps not as hard as RVV or PR, but it was certainly tougher than MSR. He kept his powder dry all race and went all-in with one huge, perfectly timed effort. When has he tried a similar tactic in the monuments? Last year he had the opportunity at MSR when he went a few bike lengths clear, but he sat up and waited for the sprint.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re:

In the classics I don't think his problem is his tactics or others not cooperating necessarily, imo he just hasn't been good enough last few years. In easier editions where he can sprint, he consistently gets outsprinted; Degenkolb and Kristoff are simply faster, especially after a lot of kilometers. In tough editions he consistently gets dropped; whether it be Cancellara, Terpstra, Vanmarcke, Van Avermaet etc. if one of these guys has a strong year they're just a notch above Sagan for RVV and PR and they'll drop him every time.

Until Sagan improves his endurance so that he can deal with Canc, Terpstra, Vanmarcke etc. in tough editions with long finales, or until he improves his sprint so that he can win against Degenkolb and Kristoff, I just don't see him winning a 250km+ classic.......

I think there are lots of examples of Sagan actually being strong enough. Kwaremont in 2013 is one of them and Paterberg last year is another.

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

Re: Re:

The counter argument to that would be to look at the Worlds last year. Perhaps not as hard as RVV or PR, but it was certainly tougher than MSR. He kept his powder dry all race and went all-in with one huge, perfectly timed effort. When has he tried a similar tactic in the monuments? Last year he had the opportunity at MSR when he went a few bike lengths clear, but he sat up and waited for the sprint.

Yeah I think MSR is his best chance. WC's are odd though, even EBH came 2nd in a WC once while he clearly can't handle 250+ km normally. I'm also not that sure that MSR is necessarily easier, not in terms of endurance at least. MSR is significantly longer and in a tough edition with serious racing over the Cipressa and the Poggio, the finale will be longer than in Richmond, methinks. But yeah, MSR will be his best chance I think.

 

[pastronef]

https://twitter.com/friebos/status/710453131998531584

Daniel Friebe ‏@friebos
Sagan to @Gazzetta_it today: 'I didn't know Milan-Sanremo existed until I turned pro.'

 

[IndianCyclist]

Re: Re:

In the classics I don't think his problem is his tactics or others not cooperating necessarily, imo he just hasn't been good enough last few years. In easier editions where he can sprint, he consistently gets outsprinted; Degenkolb and Kristoff are simply faster, especially after a lot of kilometers. In tough editions he consistently gets dropped; whether it be Cancellara, Terpstra, Vanmarcke, Van Avermaet etc. if one of these guys has a strong year they're just a notch above Sagan for RVV and PR and they'll drop him every time.

Until Sagan improves his endurance so that he can deal with Canc, Terpstra, Vanmarcke etc. in tough editions with long finales, or until he improves his sprint so that he can win against Degenkolb and Kristoff, I just don't see him winning a 250km+ classic.......

The counter argument to that would be to look at the Worlds last year. Perhaps not as hard as RVV or PR, but it was certainly tougher than MSR. He kept his powder dry all race and went all-in with one huge, perfectly timed effort. When has he tried a similar tactic in the monuments? Last year he had the opportunity at MSR when he went a few bike lengths clear, but he sat up and waited for the sprint.

The reason he kept his powder dry becos he had no teammates to speak of compared to the major nations. There were no options. All he needs to do is wait and learn patience.

 

[May0maniac]

https://twitter.com/friebos/status/710453131998531584

Daniel Friebe ‏@friebos
Sagan to @Gazzetta_it today: 'I didn't know Milan-Sanremo existed until I turned pro.'

Lol,Sagan is such a frat boy.

 

[Gigs_98]

https://twitter.com/friebos/status/710453131998531584

Daniel Friebe ‏@friebos
Sagan to @Gazzetta_it today: 'I didn't know Milan-Sanremo existed until I turned pro.'

We have to accept it: Sagan used to be a Julyer

 

[Geraint Too Fast]

'Then I got away with Boasson Hagen, Gaviria and someone else.'

Sagan.

GVA is definitely under his skin.

 

[Flamin]

Re:

'Then I got away with Boasson Hagen, Gaviria and someone else.'

Sagan.

GVA is definitely under his skin.

On the Tinkoff site it says "Boasson Hagen, Gaviria and, I think, Trentin."

I doubt he deliberately refused to mention Greg.

 

[IndianCyclist]

He is a rider who deserves a entire team in his own right. Transfer from Cannondale to Tinkoff was not in his best interests even with large money. plus Oleg is very bad for him in terms of motivation. With all the resources focused on him, it will be better for him. Even in breakaways he can have support of his own teammates which he will never have with Contador.

 

[rm7]

Re:

He is a rider who deserves a entire team in his own right. Transfer from Cannondale to Tinkoff was not in his best interests even with large money. plus Oleg is very bad for him in terms of motivation. With all the resources focused on him, it will be better for him. Even in breakaways he can have support of his own teammates which he will never have with Contador.

Yes, with Contador in the Tour. But how many races do Contador and Sagan race together? Not many. Even Kreuziger was helping him in T-A, and he was their GC guy. In the classics he has a fairly strong team for himself. It's not like he's not having support from the team. In almost every race he enters, he's their undisputed captain. Even if Majka or Kreuziger is there, they'll help him, even if they have GC ambitions.

It's only in the Tour he doesn't really have the teams support.

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Re: Re:

It's only in the Tour he doesn't really have the teams support.

Yeah, and the Tour's just the biggest stage race of the year, innit? No biggie.

 

[trucido]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sagan-is-only-lacking-a-bit-of-luck-says-gatto/

"After another disappointing showing at Milan-San Remo, he was burdened, too, by questions as to whether he had the legs and tactical acumen for Monument-length racing."

So even when he gets taken out of contention through no fault of his own (and should rather be applauded on his ability to stay upright), people (including CN writers) continue to bash him, classy.

 

[del1962]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sagan-is-only-lacking-a-bit-of-luck-says-gatto/

"After another disappointing showing at Milan-San Remo, he was burdened, too, by questions as to whether he had the legs and tactical acumen for Monument-length racing."

So even when he gets taken out of contention through no fault of his own (and should rather be applauded on his ability to stay upright), people (including CN writers) continue to bash him, classy.

Funny how without the legs and tactical acumen for Monument-length racing he managed to win the worlds