Teams & Riders Peter Sagan discussion thread.

[KGB]

Yeah?Opssss,then better to try to win something this season

 

[Akuryo]

Gazzetta stats today say Sagan won 75 times and came second 63 times since 2010. Well, soon he will have more second places than wins it seems.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

very bad tactics by TInkoff today.

First they go 4 in line before the final hill but there is no point cause Sagan never follows these trains and is much better at finding position on his own.
And when Stybar attacked Gatto should always have been on his wheel immediately. No reason not to.

No Sagan should have be on STYbar's wheel...he is the guy being paid 4 million euros and the supposed best rider

Gatto probably hadn't the legs...that was easily the move to follow so where was Sagan ?

Well, sagan should have been on stybars wheel, but I think he's not there yet, thats why gatto was marking the moves, no sagan. Had he had the legs, he would have been in front, as he's been so many times, and maybe would have attacked himselft before stybar. He must have known the finish is so much in favour of a lone attacker.
On the contrary, this time, he went in the second half of the group up the hill. This tells me, that he's not good in such rumps so far. His racing in Strade Bianche confirms it, he tried to to work hardly to drop everybody before the finish in sienna, because he had known he hadn't had the upper hand in that steep ramp on cancellara and stybar. 2 or 3 years ago, hell even last year(when his form finally came) he would have eat them alive there.
For him, there's only hope that he can get there till Flanders.

Well in 2014 he came to Siena with Kwiatkowski and Sagan got eaten alive. IMO the problem is just that Sagan isnt able to do a good sprint after working a lot. That seems strange since he was always very good in the sprints in last years tour after he worked during the stage, but besides that he seems to have problems to do a good finish after working hard. Last year in the Ronde he wasnt even able to hang on GVA's wheel when he tried to catch Kristoff on the finish line and we will never know how good he would have sprinted in last years World Championships because he finished solo, but I think on the final bump he might have had problems to follow other riders if he had been in a small group.

His problem is that he can win two kind of stages and in both its always very difficult for him. In bunch sprints Sagan is always good but pure sprinters like Greipel, Kittel, Cav,... are usually a bit stronger. In hilly stages with finishes which are too hard for pure sprinters he is suddenly the big favorite, so if someone attacks (which is likely in stages with hard finishes) everyone expects him to react. However if he reacts everyone chases him and if they catch him again his sprints aren't that good anymore. So normally he can only win if although the finish is hard, there is still a reduced bunch sprint or if he attacks alone (like in the WC last year). A strong team would be very helpful for him but unfortunately he doesnt have one

 

[HelloDolly]

I really think this idea oft Sagan's team not being strong enough is rubbish and a lame excuse

He is a good bike rider but unfortunately for him there a lot of other good bike riders in the peloton and some are better than him at specific stage finales

Canellera, Stybar, Degenkolb
or
Greipel, Cav, Kittel
or
GVA, Kwait ,Matthews

Its a sad fact for him and his fans...But he is the best paid rider int he peloton ...so at least he has that consolation

BTW ...bad push on the Lampre rider

 

[LaFlorecita]

Edit: sorry wrong thread

 

[Akuryo]

Re:

I really think this idea oft Sagan's team not being strong enough is rubbish and a lame excuse

He is a good bike rider but unfortunately for him there a lot of other good bike riders in the peloton and some are better than him at specific stage finales

Canellera, Stybar, Degenkolb
or
Greipel, Cav, Kittel
or
GVA, Kwait ,Matthews

Its a sad fact for him and his fans...But he is the best paid rider int he peloton ...so at least he has that consolation

BTW ...bad push on the Lampre rider

Problem for riders like Sagen or Kwiatkowski is the modern era. Too much specialists around. 30 years ago when everybody rode everything they would have dominated. But now they are jacks of all traits but can't win because some guy who only focusses on that one aspect of cycling is going to be stronger.

 

[KGB]

Re:

I really think this idea oft Sagan's team not being strong enough is rubbish and a lame excuse

He is a good bike rider but unfortunately for him there a lot of other good bike riders in the peloton and some are better than him at specific stage finales

Canellera, Stybar, Degenkolb
or
Greipel, Cav, Kittel
or
GVA, Kwait ,Matthews

Its a sad fact for him and his fans...But he is the best paid rider int he peloton ...so at least he has that consolation

BTW ...bad push on the Lampre rider

That's ok.Will be boring if he wins all.If you put on second position Sagan then all three scenarios will be more accurate.He needs only Oss,anothrer guys could be anyone really.

 

[KGB]

Re: Re:

I really think this idea oft Sagan's team not being strong enough is rubbish and a lame excuse

He is a good bike rider but unfortunately for him there a lot of other good bike riders in the peloton and some are better than him at specific stage finales

Canellera, Stybar, Degenkolb
or
Greipel, Cav, Kittel
or
GVA, Kwait ,Matthews

Its a sad fact for him and his fans...But he is the best paid rider int he peloton ...so at least he has that consolation

BTW ...bad push on the Lampre rider

Problem for riders like Sagen or Kwiatkowski is the modern era. Too much specialists around. 30 years ago when everybody rode everything they would have dominated. But now they are jacks of all traits but can't win because some guy who only focusses on that one aspect of cycling is going to be stronger.

Don't worry to much about Kwiatkowsky and Sagan.They are still there

 

[Akuryo]

Re: Re:

I really think this idea oft Sagan's team not being strong enough is rubbish and a lame excuse

He is a good bike rider but unfortunately for him there a lot of other good bike riders in the peloton and some are better than him at specific stage finales

Canellera, Stybar, Degenkolb
or
Greipel, Cav, Kittel
or
GVA, Kwait ,Matthews

Its a sad fact for him and his fans...But he is the best paid rider int he peloton ...so at least he has that consolation

BTW ...bad push on the Lampre rider

Problem for riders like Sagen or Kwiatkowski is the modern era. Too much specialists around. 30 years ago when everybody rode everything they would have dominated. But now they are jacks of all traits but can't win because some guy who only focusses on that one aspect of cycling is going to be stronger.

Don't worry to much about Kwiatkowsky and Sagan.They are still there

Yeah, but they could have palmares like Sean Kelly for instance and not only E3 Harelbeke and Amstel Gold Race (and WC RR of course) ...

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re: Re:

I really think this idea oft Sagan's team not being strong enough is rubbish and a lame excuse

He is a good bike rider but unfortunately for him there a lot of other good bike riders in the peloton and some are better than him at specific stage finales

Canellera, Stybar, Degenkolb
or
Greipel, Cav, Kittel
or
GVA, Kwait ,Matthews

Its a sad fact for him and his fans...But he is the best paid rider int he peloton ...so at least he has that consolation

BTW ...bad push on the Lampre rider

Problem for riders like Sagen or Kwiatkowski is the modern era. Too much specialists around. 30 years ago when everybody rode everything they would have dominated. But now they are jacks of all traits but can't win because some guy who only focusses on that one aspect of cycling is going to be stronger.

Don't worry to much about Kwiatkowsky and Sagan.They are still there

Yeah, but they could have palmares like Sean Kelly for instance and not only E3 Harelbeke and Amstel Gold Race (and WC RR of course) ...

Don't forget GW. Not as exciting as E3, but probably more prestigious to win.

The problem for Sagan, in my opinion, is that he's so strong that almost everybody rides against him. Combined with a sometimes flawed tactical use of his great power, he comes up short. He sometimes takes the wrong decisions even in finales that suit him better than anyone else (even "specialists"). Yesterday is a great example of it.

Kwiatkowski is a different story. Sometimes he's just not strong enough to follow the best, which may be related to him just not being as good as the highly specialized riders on their preferred terrain. It may also be that there are other allrounders (not specialists) who are just better and stronger than Kwiatkowski. Valverde, for instance, won many classics last year despite having the characteristics of an allrounder.

 

[KGB]

And maybe yesterday he just was not strong enough to follow Styby wheel.I think yesterday he just play perfectly to how good his form at the moment.

 

[pedromiguelmartins]

He seems like a kind guy. Kind guys never make great cyclists. That is strange... Because he can be great on short TTs, and we know that to be great on TTs, one has to be a psycho.

Remember Lance dodging beloki after he broke his leg? Cancellara attacking when Boonen was eating? Sagan has to have that sick *** mentality, if he wants lots of monuments.

Maybe when he's older. After all, at 25 years old, Fabian had won almost nothing.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Another 2nd too early in the sprint. But looks like he has a great chance to win TA with the TT

 

[Boker]

He always entertains races. Take for example TDF15’. Maybe he doesn’t win but he races with the heart and panache. And people lםve it. Today was a fascinating stage only because Sagan went for some seconds in intermediate sprint and decided to get benefit from a split.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj-0PxFS7Dc

 

[johnymax]

Sagan is the best cyclist in the world for me and has been for the past few years. I don't care that lately he doesn't win that many races but he is constantly in action, always in attack mode, he is the no1 entertainer in the cycling world. Often he is too generous and spends too much energy before the crucial moments of the race and that's why he collects so many 2nd and 3rd places. But he doesn't care. He'll still be his aggressive self and ride his way, the Sagan way. I want him to win a monument this year so bad. But first thing first, let's win the T-A tomorrow. Go Peter!

 

[staubsauger]

Don't worry pals. The question ain't whether Saganbert is gonna win big time once again or not. The question is whether it's in the classics, sprints or even a gt!

 

[MatParker117]

Sagand

 

[IndianCyclist]

This is too much!!!! Sagan 2nd by 1 second

 

[kareeem]

Good TT anyway

 

[King Boonen]

Lol.

 

[Mr.White]

Luck is not on his side, but he's trying that's for sure! The big one is gonna come soon!

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Tough luck today, but a good time trial, and generally a showing that he can be very proud of. In my opinion he animated the race more than everyone else. I hope he wins on saturday (assuming Fabian doesn't win ofcourse )

 

[zigmeister]

Gotta, say, some might not like this, but Cancellara made all sorts of public statements a few years ago about Sagan not pulling in a few classics, especially when he beat Cancellera. After that, Sagan always does his share since. In fact, too much. Now Sagan is seeing what it is like to have guys not pull. Whether they had two riders the previous day or not in that break away...Van Avermaet needs to stop patting himself on the back. He has literally sat on and not done anything the past many races where he beat Sagan, yet he thinks he is a better racer and said he gained confidence that he can "beat" Sagan. haha..I find this hilarious. Sit on 4 guys wheels, never take a pull, then brag/claim how great you are. Sad actually coming from a Belgium. I would say Merck likely isn't impressed with that.

Not taking anything away from Van Avermaet, but his tactics of sitting on the back and refusing to pull is pretty much proof of his inability to face off with the best riders 1-1 and when there are no other riders with them to help Greg out. More power to him though, if those are his orders from the team and race tactics, so be it to get you a win. That is what he is paid to do for him team, win.

Sagan said it best though about the entire stage race, if they didn't cancel the mountain stage due to weather, none of the guys who were in contention for the overall, himself/Van Avermaet, would had ever happened, they would have been off the back in the climbs and never finished within 5-10 minutes of the leaders.

 

[Gigs_98]

I really hope Sagan can shake off his 2nd place curse soon. Considering his talent its time for him to finally win a monument this season + finally a few tour stages again. His WC title is great but without it his last season would have been pretty bad and since we can't really expect him to win this year again he has to start winning now or the season might turn out to be rather bad.
I generally want Cancellara to go berserk in the classics this year but this saturday I hope for Sagan to win

 

[Flamin]

Re:

Gotta, say, some might not like this, but Cancellara made all sorts of public statements a few years ago about Sagan not pulling in a few classics, especially when he beat Cancellera. After that, Sagan always does his share since. In fact, too much. Now Sagan is seeing what it is like to have guys not pull. Whether they had two riders the previous day or not in that break away...Van Avermaet needs to stop patting himself on the back. He has literally sat on and not done anything the past many races where he beat Sagan, yet he thinks he is a better racer and said he gained confidence that he can "beat" Sagan. haha..I find this hilarious. Sit on 4 guys wheels, never take a pull, then brag/claim how great you are. Sad actually coming from a Belgium. I would say Merck likely isn't impressed with that.

Not taking anything away from Van Avermaet, but his tactics of sitting on the back and refusing to pull is pretty much proof of his inability to face off with the best riders 1-1 and when there are no other riders with them to help Greg out. More power to him though, if those are his orders from the team and race tactics, so be it to get you a win. That is what he is paid to do for him team, win.

Sagan said it best though about the entire stage race, if they didn't cancel the mountain stage due to weather, none of the guys who were in contention for the overall, himself/Van Avermaet, would had ever happened, they would have been off the back in the climbs and never finished within 5-10 minutes of the leaders.

What on earth are you talking about?