Phil and Paul

[Izzy eviel]

Harmon is far worse. It is bad enough that all he is interesting in is discussing his beloved Sky and his great buddies Cav and Brad, but then he started today to discredit other teams in the peleton for being selfish - Movistar and Europcar.

Perhaps Harmon should have his own thread as well, or a Eurosport thread maybe.

Harmon's alright. It was the other commentator who brought the up subject about Movistar & Europcar, he was merely speculating as to the reasons. It was a relevant subject to discuss.

 

[BigRingAbuse]

Stage 2 special moments

Paul: "That man has got a high speed wheelchair trying to keep up with the action"
Phil: "That's a recumbent Paul"

Paul: "Big George Hincapie, riding like a man possessed"

Paul is obsessed with 'touching your brakes' "Don't even dream about it mate. If you touch your brakes, you will be gone."

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Stage 2 special moments

Paul: "That man has got a high speed wheelchair trying to keep up with the action"
Phil: "That's a recumbent Paul"

Paul: "Big George Hincapie, riding like a man possessed"

Paul is obsessed with 'touching your brakes' "Don't even dream about it mate. If you touch your brakes, you will be gone."

Who was the lead-out train for Cav at HTC? I need a reminder.

 

[El Imbatido]

Who was the lead-out train for Cav at HTC? I need a reminder.

Or who is that guy in the red and black jersey who is aways surrounded by a team mate right near the front of the peloton as to stay out of any trouble?....


He is saying this one all the time....it is like it is his new go to thing when he has nothing to say. TBH i quite like it when commentators actually stop talking for a while

 

[SaxonUK]

I must be one of the few people who really doesn't mind the commentary, sure they waffle a little and they (though Paul mostly) get information wrong, there's usually an attempt to quickly correct what has been said.

 

[ggusta]

I must be one of the few people who really doesn't mind the commentary, sure they waffle a little and they (though Paul mostly) get information wrong, there's usually an attempt to quickly correct what has been said.

What channel are you watching? but seriously and tbh, The 1st year, maybe even the 2nd year I watched them cover the tdf, it had a sort of endearment, but when that wears off, it really wears off in a very bad way.

For me it's Roll and Sherwen and by far Roll that are just completely intolerable. I will stick up for Phil but he is pretty old and frankly, starting to slip. I also recall that when they had their bash fest in the AC vs Lance tour when AC finally put the final dagger into Lance, Phil sort of put matters right as best he could on behalf of AC when the rest of them treated AC as if he was OJ Simpson or Jerry Sandusky crashing their little Lance brown nosing house party.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Eurosport

Harmon is far worse. It is bad enough that all he is interesting in is discussing his beloved Sky and his great buddies Cav and Brad, but then he started today to discredit other teams in the peleton for being selfish - Movistar and Europcar.

Perhaps Harmon should have his own thread as well, or a Eurosport thread maybe.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=13974&highlight=eurosport+commentary

I could do with the support - there are quite a few here who even support Duffield and Carlton Kirby. I even had a text from a friend in Italy yesterday saying who the hell are these tdf commentators on Eurosport. I,ve given up with this post as I didnt get much support - cyclists are strange old gits who love the old style wittering.

 

[Andy99]

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=13974&highlight=eurosport+commentary

I could do with the support - there are quite a few here who even support Duffield and Carlton Kirby. I even had a text from a friend in Italy yesterday saying who the hell are these tdf commentators on Eurosport. I,ve given up with this post as I didnt get much support - cyclists are strange old gits who love the old style wittering.

Yeah, I agree. Eurosport is great - except for Harmon.

he has become too full of himself, yet makes simple errors and constantly name drops or talks about his 'tandem partner' (lover?).

Kelly is a must, but he really needs a different person alongside him. Even Carlton.

 

[jonny testaronny]

C'mon

In their pre-race show, Phil explained that due to NBC's takeover, they expected the viewing audience to be much more general than in the past. Therefore, due to the audience's lack of bike race savvy, the announcers were going to focus more on the "people" aspects of the race. Essentially he admitted that they were going to dumb-down the coverage.

They're really no different than they've been the past several years--can't hardly get dumber than they've been. Most grating to me now is their inability to properly pronounce riders' names. Is it Mer-kov? Meer-kof? Meer-koo? None of the above? I'm hoping that Morkov doesn't get into another break where they have to repeat his name for a few hours, or that their wildly inconsistent pronunciation of his name settles into something, you know, correct. Neither's likely to happen, however. I'd rather have Michel Wuyt of Sporza--even though I understand next to nothing of what he says, at least he pronounces names correctly, and he's far better at identifying riders. Case in point: I picked up that Voeckler was in a chase group caught behind one of the crashes in Stage 3 before Tweedledee or Tweedlebootlick did. Shouldn't happen, and wouldn't happen if I were listening to Michel Wuyt.

 

[Caruut]

I think for me, you can only appreciate quite how ridiculous the commentary is if you translate it into the language of another sport.

Some of the things they say are the equivalent of turning on the football to hear the co-commentator say, "Now you can see that Rooney has actually kicked the ball to his team-mate there. That means his team keep possession - if he'd tried to run through all of them, he wouldn't have gotten through, and the other team would have had the ball". Then the commentator replies "Yes, possession is extremely important in the sport of football".

They are like a never-ending "cycling for beginners" DVD.

 

[Froome19]

Today something like

No drag at all at the finish the sprinters wont feel a thing, the only thing they need to be worried about is the roundabout

 

[the asian]

Harmon is bearable compared to Phil & Paul. I shed the TV coverage with Phil & Paul in favor of Eurosport Live Streaming. Kelly is the key difference. However the pair who commentated at the Dauphine for Eurosport are very biased and very annoying.
Harmon isn't much biased, even though he seems to have a grudge against Movistar.

 

[nickel999]

I like Harmon's "stories" of when he rides a portion of the stage. He did a good one on alpe d'huez a few years back, Very Hard! Very Hard ride!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Harmon is bearable compared to Phil & Paul. I shed the TV coverage with Phil & Paul in favor of Eurosport Live Streaming. Kelly is the key difference. However the pair who commentated at the Dauphine for Eurosport are very biased and very annoying.
Harmon isn't much biased, even though he seems to have a grudge against Movistar.

Harmon loves Evans, and Valverde kept beating Evans. Then they screwed over Levi in Paris-Nice, and Team Sky kicked up a stink about it, so Harmon hates them because Team Sky hate them. Oh, and Ventoso was the one who mentioned Cav holding on to cars, and poor José Joaquín Rojas gets a bunch of abuse for no real reason other than that he would have been the benefactor if the anti-Cav brigade had had their way last year.

Movistar are quite often given this kind of bad-boys-of-the-péloton reputation because of that tendency to not play by the Anglophone teams' rulebook of morals and practices, because their having several strong riders but no overly strong contenders means they often try different things breaking up the nice pattern many teams have set for the day, because the Spanish are bogeymen in terms of success and in terms of suspiciousness, because they have some shady names in their ranks, because Ventoso said something about Mark Cavendish 14 months ago...

They've done a few things that were perhaps a bit morally dubious this season, for sure, but at the same time, they had a rotten 2011 and may have decided, you know, to hell with it, we're going to try to win whether we have to upset the cosy cartel at the top to do it or not.

 

[BigRingAbuse]

Phil stage 5: "The onion comes back together again, round either side of the roundabout they go". The workings of senility, but a nice metaphor nevertheless.

 

[DominicDecoco]

Oh, and Ventoso was the one who mentioned Cav holding on to cars, and poor José Joaquín Rojas gets a bunch of abuse for no real reason other than that he would have been the benefactor if the anti-Cav brigade had had their way last year.

"At one point a Belgian journalist asked what I meant about the accusations against Cavendish. I turned the question around and asked him where exactly he had heard it. Had he seen it himself? He hadn't and no other journalists that I spoke to had.

I tried to find out where the rumours started. And everywhere they could be traced back to Rojas and Moviestar. Philip Gilbert also said that Mark was holding on to cars, and so I asked him how he knew it.
-"As far as I know you weren't anywhere near at the alleged time this should have happend".
Gilbert admitted that it was something he had heard from Rojas. It's impressive since both of Rojas and Gilbert are 10 minutes in front of Mark in the mountains and none of them can see what he's doing. This entire spin comes from the spanish camp it turns out. "

(After last Champs-Élysées stage) "By coincidence I meet Unzue that evening. He laughs and says sorry for the trouble. "'C'est la guerre', he says."
"I said - Yes, yes. I know while laughing.""

Sportsdirektøren, Brian Holm

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

I think for me, you can only appreciate quite how ridiculous the commentary is if you translate it into the language of another sport.

Some of the things they say are the equivalent of turning on the football to hear the co-commentator say, "Now you can see that Rooney has actually kicked the ball to his team-mate there. That means his team keep possession - if he'd tried to run through all of them, he wouldn't have gotten through, and the other team would have had the ball". Then the commentator replies "Yes, possession is extremely important in the sport of football".

They are like a never-ending "cycling for beginners" DVD.

Very funny.

 

[UpTheRoad]

Phil has watched and commentated on today's crash a number of times and I think he will go to his grave thinking Nibali was next to Greipel and then crashed.

It was clearly Sagan and even the different jersey couldn't sway Liggett from his belief that Nibali hit the deck. He did veer a bit and say Basso once, but immediately corrected himself to switch back to Nibali.

 

[Casualfan]

I think for me, you can only appreciate quite how ridiculous the commentary is if you translate it into the language of another sport.

Some of the things they say are the equivalent of turning on the football to hear the co-commentator say, "Now you can see that Rooney has actually kicked the ball to his team-mate there. That means his team keep possession - if he'd tried to run through all of them, he wouldn't have gotten through, and the other team would have had the ball". Then the commentator replies "Yes, possession is extremely important in the sport of football".

They are like a never-ending "cycling for beginners" DVD.

I think that's the brief though. The TV companies know that a lot of fans will only watch the Tour and first timers will start by watching the Tour, so they speak in "dumbed down" terms. I know what you mean though. Paul knows far more about the architecture and landmarks in France then he does about racing. Ask him who the architect of a building was, when it was built or how long it took to build, he's an expert. Ask him to identify a non Anglo speaking rider, he's clueless.

That said, I still watch them every year. I think it's a combination of "They're idiots, but they're OUR idiots" and the fact that I have grown up listening to their commentary.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

I've just been watching some footage from the 80ies an early 90ies with Phil commenting and actually Sherwin getting interwies after the stages. It's hard to take that both of them are, except for the tone of talking, bull**** by now. Maybe they were also back than but it couldn't be noticed. But it's hard for me to have hard feelings towards them knowing that they actually had to do 30 minute shows or even worse some 30(!) years back. Seems only natural that they'd enjoy joining what they thought would be the winning side at the end of their carriers.
Still it's very hard to take that those very homogeneous and nice reports from the old days were made by the same guy's I can't stand listening to for 10 minutes nowadays. As if they'd not be the same persons. But maybe it was just the format covering it up those days?

 

[Caruut]

I think that's the brief though. The TV companies know that a lot of fans will only watch the Tour and first timers will start by watching the Tour, so they speak in "dumbed down" terms. I know what you mean though. Paul knows far more about the architecture and landmarks in France then he does about racing. Ask him who the architect of a building was, when it was built or how long it took to build, he's an expert. Ask him to identify a non Anglo speaking rider, he's clueless.

That said, I still watch them every year. I think it's a combination of "They're idiots, but they're OUR idiots" and the fact that I have grown up listening to their commentary.

It is definitely the brief. In my mind, it's a ridiculous brief. If I were in charge of the coverage, I would try and focus more on discussing the season, riders' form, maybe the lives of riders, the demands of racing and stuff. Certainly less on repeatedly hammering home the same tactical points with the same tired clichés. In this age, is it that hard to put a little online tutorial on the website and refer to it every now and then, or a series of little explanation shorts pre- or post- live coverage?

 

[Marcuccio]

TBH - Phil and Paul don't bother me a great deal - I tune out most the BS.

I get the feeling that they are encouraged to dumb down or simplify their choice of words and descriptions as a way of enlightening the new fans out there, and to perhaps make it easier to learn and follow for first time viewers.

In Australia, there's an Aussie (Matthew Keenan) guy who does a bit of the lead up commentary in the TdF (before Phil and Paul) and even he tends to ramble and go off on random tangents every now and then, but hey, it's probably part of a push by SBS to bring new cycling fans in to the fold without confusing them more than they need to be.

 

[woodburn]

Phil has watched and commentated on today's crash a number of times and I think he will go to his grave thinking Nibali was next to Greipel and then crashed.

It was clearly Sagan and even the different jersey couldn't sway Liggett from his belief that Nibali hit the deck. He did veer a bit and say Basso once, but immediately corrected himself to switch back to Nibali.

He also called the win for Urtasun right as Goss was swallowing him up.

 

[movingtarget]

Harmon loves Evans, and Valverde kept beating Evans. Then they screwed over Levi in Paris-Nice, and Team Sky kicked up a stink about it, so Harmon hates them because Team Sky hate them. Oh, and Ventoso was the one who mentioned Cav holding on to cars, and poor José Joaquín Rojas gets a bunch of abuse for no real reason other than that he would have been the benefactor if the anti-Cav brigade had had their way last year.

Movistar are quite often given this kind of bad-boys-of-the-péloton reputation because of that tendency to not play by the Anglophone teams' rulebook of morals and practices, because their having several strong riders but no overly strong contenders means they often try different things breaking up the nice pattern many teams have set for the day, because the Spanish are bogeymen in terms of success and in terms of suspiciousness, because they have some shady names in their ranks, because Ventoso said something about Mark Cavendish 14 months ago...

They've done a few things that were perhaps a bit morally dubious this season, for sure, but at the same time, they had a rotten 2011 and may have decided, you know, to hell with it, we're going to try to win whether we have to upset the cosy cartel at the top to do it or not.

Lots of the commentators seem to love Evans now. Maybe they did not think he would ever win a Tour ? Liggett seemed to think that the French loved Andy. Not sure how accurate that was. Harmon tries not to be too critical of ex-dopers but can't help himself. He is almost happy when previously banned riders get beaten and always mentions their history. Not so happy when they win like Vino at Liege the second time.

 

[The Barb]

With 3.5km to go in yesterday's stage, and the break leading by 25 seconds, Paul said, "They will have to have at least 30 seconds once they get to the final kilometre."

Really??? If they had 30 seconds lead they would be more than 500m in front (if peloton going more than 60km per hour) with 1000m to go. I'd even back myself to hold on and win in that situation.

I just can't understand how someone with decades of experience as a rider and cycling broadcaster could say something so wrong.

Then, Phil in the last 200 metres: "This is the win of a lifetime - Pablo Urtasun is coming up to the line!!!" Literally a few short seconds later Urtasun is overtaken and spat back to 25th.

PLEASE, Paul and Phil, tell us what is happening (preferably with a little insight) but don't tell us what will happen when you plainly have no idea whatsoever.