Phil and Paul

[FitSsikS]

I really do like the Eurovision guys. Even though I can't always understand what Sean Kelly says...

That said, I wish I had a dollar for every time he opened with,

"Well yes, of course..."

 

[Kender]

I know they repeat themselves etc, i can live with that...

what constantly grates on my nerves it the

"on a stage/day like today" or "on a stage/day like this"

why not just say "on this stage" or "today"

 

[Rouetheday]

I'm guessing our British forum members got a chuckle out of Paul's remark during the TT when Cadel was shown taking a sip from his bottle. Paul reckoned that Cadel was being extra careful, since during the Dauphine TT he'd "lost his bottle".

 

[CobbleStoner]

That said, I wish I had a dollar for every time he opened with,

"Well yes, of course..."

Sean Kelly has always been one of my fav's, class guy, hardman, good DS, and a great commentator, I always put on the audio from his stream and turn the tv sound down on the oi yoi yoi's and oh la la la la's live daily broadcast.

and I must thank ASO and EuroSport for the coverage on Sunday of the entire stage from the gun, that was awesome to watch.

 

[sadfitty]

Just watched the 2005 Tour again. 30 seconds after Valverde won stage 10 ahead of Armstrong Phil talks about how this is Armstrong's 22nd stage win. Could they be more biased if they tried?

 

[webbie146]

"Wiggins is a man possessed"

Will hear this one plenty of times in the upcoming stages

 

[The_Z_man]

I don't know if this has already been mentioned, but they keep calling it the "Colom-bee-air". Shouldn't it be the "Colom-bee-ay"? Also, they rarely refer to it as "Grand".

 

[Warhawk]

I don't know if this has already been mentioned, but they keep calling it the "Colom-bee-air". Shouldn't it be the "Colom-bee-ay"? Also, they rarely refer to it as "Grand".

I think you're right about the pronunciation.

But it seems like everyone around here drops the "Grand" too, so I'll give them a pass on that.

 

[joe_papp]

Haven't heard anyone mention this yesterday when Schleck finished the TT. (I won't say I am a fan of Phil's because frankly, he needs to retire and it's sad to watch a fellow man's mind slip because I know one day I will be that man.)

Phil was saying however much time Schleck had lost and he finished in like 30th place with still a few more coming in after him that pushed him further back. But he generally was saying that it was nothing to be proud of.

And Paul, ever the PR guy selling sh!t as gold, jumped right in and said hat normally he would have finished about 100th and on and on and generally tried to put lipstick on a pig.

And this is why I like Phil. Because he actually does know cycling even if he can't commentate any longer and clearly he had had his fill of Paul's shameless shilling for Radio Shack when clearly they are toast and an overall embarrassment.

And here's what he came back with after just sying it was not a TT to be proud of: 'Well in that case it was brilliant.' If you have it on your DVR go back and watch Schleck come in. It's fabulous.

+1 for Phil. They're awful. But if anyone of that horrendous crew gets it right, it's usually him.

I literally JUST watched this exchange and have to agree that Phil was brilliant and absolutely scathing in his sarcastic reply to Paul. Utterly devastating and you could hear the disgust rising in his voice. Amazing what can be revealed in only a few seconds.

Phil's momentarily redeemed himself slightly in my eyes, whilst Paul confirms what a corporate cycling w-hore he is - and what credibility he lacks.

...

Though they're not comparable from the perspective of lack of credibility or obvious, calculated bias, P&P commentary on bike races seems to be the equivalent of Speed Channel's F1 coverage (USA) vs. the programming produced by the BBC - a total joke.

What a great thread! I imagine I might even like Phil or Paul if I knew them outside of watching the broadcast, but for me the number of errors per broadcast they make just ruins it.

I get that NBC wants commentary dumbed down - that's fine, no problems with that. But that's not what's wrong with them. Others have mentioned the problems:

1.They never shut up. You watch even a baseball or American football game and you don't see that kind of verbal diarrhea. I'm certain that NBC has broadcast tests that show that American audiences don't like a lot of dead air. I'm equally certain that the space between effectively minimizing dead air and what P&P do is vast.

2.They are repetitive to the point of nausea. I'm not talking about making the same point - that could be accepted as part of dumbing down coverage. But the same phrases over and over again. I'm loving some of the examples people have posted in this thread.

3.They are wrong over and over (and over and over) again. Dozens of times per broadcast, possibly into the hundreds for a long mountain stage that gets 4 or 5 groups on the road. For me, this is the cardinal sin. Maybe it doesn't bother most people, but Dear God keep your trap shut rather than commit your 27th mis-identification of the broadcast. Don't comment definitively on why a rider is doing something unless you actually know. Etc, etc.
And there are many shades of being wrong. Even if I reduce it to situations where they are objectively incorrect, the number is is still large. But if you add the cases where they posit things that are massively unlikely, it just makes my brain hurt. They are particular bad on this when it comes to whether certain riders can get over climbs.


Some have commented that a lot of this is due to only having limited access to feeds and the complexities. I'm sorry, but that's BS. I'm certain many of us in the forum can follow what's going on far more accurately than these guys report it. Yes, it takes a certain skill to broadcast in an effective manner and a certain skill to follow cycling races and a certain skill to synthesize the two. Only a minority of individuals would have these skills. But they certainly exist and have not been leveraged by NBC.

I'm convinced that the root of most of their problems is not senility or even Phil's love of the sound of his own voice, but their absurd commitment to creating drama. Enthusiasm is great; making something sound more important than it is. . .isn't. A large percentage of their mistakes are made in an attempt to inject more drama than is actually occurring. A cycling race - especially a stage of a grand tour - is a complex and beautiful balance of many tensions and subplots. Even for the crudest American audiences NBC can reasonably expect (and they're never going to get the guys that spend hours per week arguing on sports talk radio so they shouldn't even be considering appealing to that demo), a proper balance in the broadcast would be a heckuva lot more effective than what P&P do. Great moments are only obvious in the proper context, and overdramatizing removes that. We in America love to overdramatize, but you don't see it on the scale of P&P in the regular coverage of any other sport in America.

Wow, just read your post and I'm going to copy it verbatim and publish it on my blog - you hit the nail on its head multiple times with a forged-steel hammer.

 

[whittashau]

It amazes me that Phil and Paul don't even know that Nibali has quite the reputation as a descender.

 

[El Imbatido]

Phil today called Marcus Burghardt....Magnus Backstedt

Also today when Mike Tomolaris was talking about Voeckler (talking about his spirit or tenacity i think)....said 'it flows through his veins' .......i lol'd hard. Sorry for bringing up doping

 

[Michele]

They dont??

 

[UpTheRoad]

It amazes me that Phil and Paul don't even know that Nibali has quite the reputation as a descender.

They have blocked that out of their minds due to the decent of the Grand Bornand (???) in 2009 where Nibali caught their hero.

 

[Frosty]

Am sure i heard them mention his very good descending several times at the start of the Colombier descent?

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

In my head this is what it looks like when they are getting ready for a days work

 

[whittashau]

Am sure i heard them mention his very good descending several times at the start of the Colombier descent?

Yes, but after repeating several times to watch for Evans as he's a great descender without mention of Nibali, and after they almost acted surprised that Nibali made an attack, for them to again act surprised that he was gaining time. To then act like following Sagan was the reason for his gains on the descent.

 

[BigRingAbuse]

Phil had definitely been on the vin rouge a bit early today:

"Look at him, Rens Voigt, flooding those legs"

 

[burning]

They have blocked that out of their minds due to the decent of the Grand Bornand (???) in 2009 where Nibali caught their hero.

"Armstrong is a great descender, he can descend extremely well"

 

[pkreed71]

1.They never shut up. You watch even a baseball or American football game and you don't see that kind of verbal diarrhea. I'm certain that NBC has broadcast tests that show that American audiences don't like a lot of dead air. I'm equally certain that the space between effectively minimizing dead air and what P&P do is vast.

I agree wholeheartedly, which is why I now look for the Eurosport stream to watch whenever I can. There are 2 noted exceptions, though. Any NFL broadcast on CBS involving Phil Simms and any baseball on Fox involving Tim McCarver. They're just as bad as Phil & Paul.

I must admit I feel a little guilty harping on Phil & Paul. In the US they are who got me into watching cycling and eventually following everything here on CyclingNews. However, when I had the opportunity to listen to the Eurosport crew I learned so much more and realized the massive difference between the two crews.

 

[egtalbot]

I agree wholeheartedly, which is why I now look for the Eurosport stream to watch whenever I can. There are 2 noted exceptions, though. Any NFL broadcast on CBS involving Phil Simms and any baseball on Fox involving Tim McCarver. They're just as bad as Phil & Paul.

I must admit I feel a little guilty harping on Phil & Paul. In the US they are who got me into watching cycling and eventually following everything here on CyclingNews. However, when I had the opportunity to listen to the Eurosport crew I learned so much more and realized the massive difference between the two crews.

I hear you about Simms, though I still think P&P are worse (though they seemed a little subdued today). Not very familiar with McCarver.

I agree about feeling a little guilty. They're human beings and cycling fans and as I mentioned, I might like them in person. But it is extremely frustrating listening to such poor coverage. It's just like reading a novel where the author has a couple of bad habits that ruin an otherwise great story, it grates on you.

 

[egtalbot]

Wow, just read your post and I'm going to copy it verbatim and publish it on my blog - you hit the nail on its head multiple times with a forged-steel hammer.

Now if only I could be that effective in my next 20K TT. . .

Thanks for the kind words and I'm honored if you see fit to repost.

 

[T-Nielsen]

"Armstrong is a great descender, he can descend extremely well"

Funny how everybody els could se, that he was a scared old man everytime it went downhill just a little.

 

[Carlo Algatrensig]

Phil had definitely been on the vin rouge a bit early today:

"Look at him, Rens Voigt, flooding those legs"

And also at one point today there was a rider called "Teine Rarrame"

 

[ericthesportsman6]

It really frustrated me today when VDB attacked and Phil decided to ignore it and spend the minute casually talking about KOM points.

 

[Frosty]

And also at one point today there was a rider called "Teine Rarrame"

Jurgen Rolland too Cant be easy to continually be talking about the racing though while presumably getting some messages from your director etc.