Phil, Paul and Bob.

[ChrisE]

Why not? Other commentators in other languages do. You should listen to non-english language commentary. They are quite open in calling out suspect performances and talking about doping. Something the english language commentators and journalists have failed to do since 1999.

Furthermore, it is not that they merely remained silent - they also participated (and continue to) in attacks on whistleblowers like Landis, Hamilton etc. They were part of the whole 'machine' - not passive observers, but rather active participants.

That goes for Phil, Harmon, Benson, Freibe, mainstream media hacks at Yahoo, AP etc

If Walsh, Kimmage, etc could speak out and be critical then why not any of the others? If Phil, CN hacks etc wanted an easy life then fine but again they deserve all the criticism and abuse they get for their decisions and their actions.

Do P and P work on non-English channels? Non American channels? That is their lot, and where their bread is buttered.

I don't speak any other language except some Spanish....mainly the cuss words. So, I don't know what others are saying, and the only time I hear it is when eurosport feed is down but it is all jibberish. So, I have to trust you to an extent; but I doubt even a rated G level of the vitriol of the Clinic is conveyed over the airwaves regardless of language.

You see, that is bad for business. Commentators jamming cyclists for doping tends to drive away sponsorship. I have always said on here and in other forums that the incentive is to cover up the doping, not expose it. When FL defenders said his positive was a frame by "the French" I called BS on that for this very reason. You get somebody running their mouth like you would expect on TV than they will get slapped down pronto.

Again, I have no beef with the criticism towards them, but I think we find ourselves in similar situations daily and I understand their position.

 

[the vagabond]

As bad as P & P are - and they are bad - I find Sean Kelly even more unbearable, measured by percentage of time I have to have mute on. In my mind, I call him diarrhea mouth - it just dribbles out without stopping and then when you finally think he's stopped Harmon directs another question at him, and it's right back on the toilet seat. And the accent is just brutal - for this American, English accents are fine, Australian accents are rather pleasant, but Irish accents are just brutal on the ears.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

That is my point - the english language media took their 30 pieces of silver.

They did have a choice - they had three options: to be silent, to be active in the machine, or to quit. They chose to be active in the Armstrong myth and the attacking of whistleblowers.

I have every sympathy for the dissenters, I have no sympathy for the party hacks.

 

[Berzin]

It is easy for me to understand why they are like they are....they are not so stupid to believe LA was clean. They made a choice and are entrenched. So what?

It's called integrity. As in, what's wrong with exhibiting some for a change.

They could commentate on the races and talk up whomever the producers tell them to without being deceitful, without going out of their way to defend the lies we've all been told all these years, which is what they're going to do during the upcoming Tour de France.

 

[carl spackler]

Again, I have no beef with the criticism towards them, but I think we find ourselves in similar situations daily and I understand their position.

This for me is a huge part of the problem that leads to large scale corruption. If you have the courage to be honest, why not expect that same courage from others? How do you expect the opinion of the public to change if the people supposedly reporting the facts are liars? Their crimes are large, because they are entrusted to tell the truth. Or are you saying that they are not?

I sold cars for a living at one time, and I told less lies than they do.

When I met my wife she was not a cycling fan, but she was amused by Phil, Paul, and Bob. Unfortunately it has taken much work for me to get her to understand that they are frauds, and she is my wife.

IMHO they deserve to go down unless they come clean just like a rider. if not more so. They are shameless shills.

 

[Michael Brown]

ChrisE, quit being so balanced and reasonable. You get in the way of vigilante justice.

 

[ChrisE]

This for me is a huge part of the problem that leads to large scale corruption. If you have the courage to be honest, why not expect that same courage from others? How do you expect the opinion of the public to change if the people supposedly reporting the facts are liars? Their crimes are large, because they are entrusted to tell the truth. Or are you saying that they are not?

I sold cars for a living at one time, and I told less lies than they do.

When I met my wife she was not a cycling fan, but she was amused by Phil, Paul, and Bob. Unfortunately it has taken much work for me to get her to understand that they are frauds, and she is my wife.

IMHO they deserve to go down unless they come clean just like a rider. if not more so. They are shameless shills.

Good analogy. We all have our limits, don't we?

 

[orbeas]

P & p

Dont forget that Sherwin was involved with Armstrong at Motorola with Sean Yates, and I think Armstrong invested in one of Sherwins Africa business deals.

 

[rickshaw]

IMHO they deserve to go down unless they come clean just like a rider. if not more so. They are shameless shills.

Maybe. I think they are just guys doing a job. They go to work, punch in, find out what race it is and start talking. The trick is to make it sound like they are still interested after 25 years. Always say the obvious, be amazed at the amazing, avoid dead air. Punch out, go home, collect the check.

At least their stand on doping has been consistant over the years

 

[Benotti69]

Maybe. I think they are just guys doing a job. They go to work, punch in, find out what race it is and start talking. The trick is to make it sound like they are still interested after 25 years. Always say the obvious, be amazed at the amazing, avoid dead air. Punch out, go home, collect the check.

At least their stand on doping has been consistant over the years

Nope! They have have not played the 'see no evil, hear no evil speak no evil' on the doping issue in regards to Armstrong, in fact they have actively aided him by dismissing other riders like LeMond, Landis and the other day live on TV Hamilton.

They need to disappear from cycling.

 

[Elagabalus]

Not to mention that Phil and Paul were the ones who placed the C4 charges at the World Trade Center on September 11th...


Wow, so much hate for PnP. But to answer the OP. No, they are not going away. Unless they retire, of course. Nothing left to do but hit the mute button...

 

[BullsFan22]

I got more annoyed each TDF stage when Armstrong was riding and Phil and Paul were commentating on OLN/VERSUS. It was pretty bad bias, they were also very redundant. The Armstrong love was to be expected though, the coverage of that race is geared toward the casual fan in the US, those that really don't follow cycling unless it's a GT or specifically, the TDF. That's why you saw all those shows each week starting a month before the race. Most of those shows were about Armstrong's 'preparation' for the Tour. I don't know the ins and outs of how Phil and Paul were involved with Armstrong and any of his foundations, but it sure looks like they know something.

 

[pmcg76]

I got more annoyed each TDF stage when Armstrong was riding and Phil and Paul were commentating on OLN/VERSUS. It was pretty bad bias, they were also very redundant. The Armstrong love was to be expected though, the coverage of that race is geared toward the casual fan in the US, those that really don't follow cycling unless it's a GT or specifically, the TDF. That's why you saw all those shows each week starting a month before the race. Most of those shows were about Armstrong's 'preparation' for the Tour. I don't know the ins and outs of how Phil and Paul were involved with Armstrong and any of his foundations, but it sure looks like they know something.

I think P & P are geared towards the new or casual fans and to me, they are good at that. I think a lot of people would have experience of Phil Ligget being the first cycling commentator they heard but after a few years, something more insightful is more interesting and helpful.

 

[pedaling squares]

Phil and Paul are really only useful these days for drinking games. Bob cannot serve even that purpose. Sean Kelly is alright if you don't mind a non-stop monotone. None of them touch on many of the 'tough' issues.

I seem to remember Phil saying during one Tour de France that he doubted that he'd seen a clean winner in about 20 years. I think it was during the tour where they (OLN at the time) were promoting the Sherwin interview of Lance Armstrong that had been shot before the tour and which would be shown after the tour had ended. 2004? It stood out because I thought it was a strange thing to say when they were promoting the reigning champion.

Anyone else remember that better than me? I'm getting old...

 

[Hawkwood]

I'm not a fan of Phil and Paul, but in the former's defence didn't he make some pointed comments when LA chased down Simeoni?

 

[hwyrngr]

Very much looking forward to Sherwen commenting on 'Lance doing the perp-walk digging deep into his suitcase full of courage'.

It might come out muffled with all that humble pie in his mouth.

If and when LA does time in Federal"poun him in the a_ _"Prision, Phil can comment when his cell mate taps out the rhythm on his a_ _.

 

[Paco_P]

Why not? Other commentators in other languages do. You should listen to non-english language commentary. They are quite open in calling out suspect performances and talking about doping. Something the english language commentators and journalists have failed to do since 1999.

Commentary on Spanish TV is done by Pedro Delgado. He's entertaining, but quite circumspect about doping issues. I suppose he has too much firsthand experience...

 

[sars1981]

whats phil liggett doing today?

i really dislike that muppet. eager to revel in his pain, i couldn't help wanting to hear his opinion on the latest lance drama. he always seems to make a stern effort to pander to the "clean cycling" agenda. i cant help wondering if even he is not shameless enough to come out and support lance this time. he apparently hasn't been on record in a while - at least as far as google news goes.

is phil at home crying and receiving a shoulder rub from his wife at this moment?
chasing a pint of vodka with a bottle of painkillers?

 

[rickshaw]

OK

Nope! They have have not played the 'see no evil, hear no evil speak no evil' on the doping issue in regards to Armstrong, in fact they have actively aided him by dismissing other riders like LeMond, Landis and the other day live on TV Hamilton.

They need to disappear from cycling.

you are right
I'm wrong

but if we get rid of everyone who has been / is complicite in cycle-doping there won't be many left

 

[mewmewmew13]

Is this where I can put in a complaint?
I cringed everytime P & P pronounced Tjallingii as "Jangle-y".