Philipe Gilbert Future Tour de France Champion

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mr. tibbs

mr. tibbs

Mar 10, 2009
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Ferminal said:
He will face tough competition from Boonen, Haussler and Cancellara.
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haha_oh_wow.jpg


Well played, Ferminal.
 
Fowsto Cope-E

Fowsto Cope-E

Jul 27, 2010
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function said:
Right, but its the high power to weight ratio for TT time durations that is needed for gt climbs. Anyway Which TT results did you have in mind?
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Well, a high power-to-weight ration is essential in TTs, and he has placed top 10 in the Vuelta TT the last 2 years. Power-to-wieght isn't as important in Flat TTs as it is in climbs but is still very important; this is why Contador even stands a chance in a TT vs. Cancellera. So, he has proven that he has a high power-to-weight ratio and is obviously not too heavy as he has shown he can climbs, though so far only on short climbs. Does this mean he should be able to win the tour? no, but I wouldn't put it past him if he ever does try.
 
La Pandera

La Pandera

Jul 18, 2010
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El Pistolero said:
Say that the mister fat ***.

It's still 7-0 for Armstrong.

It is normal. Armstrong hardy raced except the Tour and the Amstel Gold Race(one of the most dangerous races though). He took no risks and that's why he never had injuries and his mental strength kept him focused for 3 weeks to minimize crashes. Just look at the Beloki crash. That was a very quick reaction of Armstrong and one the reasons why he had so little bad luck. Insult him what you like, but he was something special even without the dope. Unlike Ullrich he also never was a fatty and always looked sharp during his GT career.
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How did that strategy change upon his return? His luck simply ran out. He raced even less than before and yet crashed more in the past 2 years than in his entire career prior to his return. I'm not minimizing his accomplishments but he was extremely lucky to have avoided serious injury and crashes in those 7 years. You speak of his steely focus, explain his carelessness in riding too close to the fans on the side of a wide road in the infamous crash on Luz Ardiden (sp) in the 2003 Tour?

The Ullrich fatty stick is so tired and worn out. Ullrich was human and flawed riding for a talented but disfunctional team with contrasting priorities (Zabel and Vino). Armstrong had an entire team working in lock step to put him in the best position to meet his goal. Armstrong had the stability of a team always there to support him to the fullest. Ullrich started the Armtrong reign with knee issues, followed by being dumped by his team for his social indiscretions, reached his most competitive level riding for a thrown together Bianchi team. Turmoil, some self inflicted, left him in less than ideal circumstances to compete with such a single minded juggernaut that was the Postal/Discovery team and Armstrong.

I personally have more respect and admiration for Ullrich and how he dealt with lack of success in defeating Armstrong than I have for LA. In the end though Armstrong, I will admit was more focused than Ullrich and inspite of his mind games stating that Ullrich was the most talented rider in the world, it was obvious that Armstrong was superior in the mountains and at minimum Ullrich's equal in the ITT's.

My apologies for going way off topic.
 
El Pistolero

El Pistolero

Jul 16, 2010
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La Pandera said:
How did that strategy change upon his return? His luck simply ran out. He raced even less than before and yet crashed more in the past 2 years than in his entire career prior to his return. I'm not minimizing his accomplishments but he was extremely lucky to have avoided serious injury and crashes in those 7 years. You speak of his steely focus, explain his carelessness in riding too close to the fans on the side of a wide road in the infamous crash on Luz Ardiden (sp) in the 2003 Tour?

The Ullrich fatty stick is so tired and worn out. Ullrich was human and flawed riding for a talented but disfunctional team with contrasting priorities (Zabel and Vino). Armstrong had an entire team working in lock step to put him in the best position to meet his goal. Armstrong had the stability of a team always there to support him to the fullest. Ullrich started the Armtrong reign with knee issues, followed by being dumped by his team for his social indiscretions, reached his most competitive level riding for a thrown together Bianchi team. Turmoil, some self inflicted, left him in less than ideal circumstances to compete with such a single minded juggernaut that was the Postal/Discovery team and Armstrong.

I personally have more respect and admiration for Ullrich and how he dealt with lack of success in defeating Armstrong than I have for LA. In the end though Armstrong, I will admit was more focused than Ullrich and inspite of his mind games stating that Ullrich was the most talented rider in the world, it was obvious that Armstrong was superior in the mountains and at minimum Ullrich's equal in the ITT's.

My apologies for going way off topic.
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He was as you say old and probably didn't focus as much as back in the day. It's clearly obvious luck wasn't involved at all. He hadn't ridden for 4 years in a peloton. He still managed to get through the 2009 Tour without any big falls you know ;)

Armstrong was heavily involved in the structure of his own team. So what if he build up a good team, why would you want a crappy one. I fail to see how you can respect someone more who probably thought doping replaced most of his training, but ok...
 
Angliru

Angliru

Mar 10, 2009
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El Pistolero said:
He was as you say old and probably didn't focus as much as back in the day. It's clearly obvious luck wasn't involved at all. He hadn't ridden for 4 years in a peloton. He still managed to get through the 2009 Tour without any big falls you know ;)

Armstrong was heavily involved in the structure of his own team. So what if he build up a good team, why would you want a crappy one. I fail to see how you can respect someone more who probably thought doping replaced most of his training, but ok...
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As if Armstrong's performance wasn't just as "enhanced".:rolleyes:
If you believe that Ullrich's result were primarily due to the PED's (sorry moderators for contributing to take this thread off topic and into clinic territory) then you're entitled but of course I don't agree. The reason I respect Ullrich more is because of his humility in the face of all the criticism that was and still is thrown his way. I simply can't recall him saying much bad about anyone inspite of all the negative media and public statements made in his regards.
 
El Pistolero

El Pistolero

Jul 16, 2010
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Angliru said:
As if Armstrong's performance wasn't just as "enhanced".:rolleyes:
If you believe that Ullrich's result were primarily due to the PED's (sorry moderators for contributing to take this thread off topic and into clinic territory) then you're entitled but of course I don't agree. The reason I respect Ullrich more is because of his humility in the face of all the criticism that was and still is thrown his way. I simply can't recall him saying much bad about anyone inspite of all the negative media and public statements made in his regards.
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He trained a lot more than Ullrich. What I'm saying is Ullrich could have done a lot better with the same medical program and a better training program.
 
1

18-Valve. (pithy)

May 4, 2011
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Bordercollie1 said:
Time to look at the other classy one dayers who had a crack at the GTs:

Bartoli had a go at the tour in 2001 (Mapei kit next to Ullrich when he gets 'the look' from LA on the Alpe)

Bugno is the best proof that a top one day rider can win the Giro and compete at the Tour. Admittedly the Indurain era tours had less mountain top finishes.

Sarroni won the Giro (albeit in an era when you had to produce an italian passport on the startline)

Cassagrande (remember him?) was a classy classics rider but a no hoper at the Tour until he lost a whopping 7 kilos. Second place at the Giro was his best GT result.

Those were the best I could come up with. Anyone come up with better examples?
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other (not necessarily better) examples:



Di Luca. 4th, 1st, 8th and 2nd at the Giro in '05, '07, '08 and '09.

Jalabert. 1st, 5th and 7th at the Vuelta, 4th at the Tour, 4th at the Giro.

Scarponi in a way. 4th at the Giro last year at age 30, no other top 10 GT results up until now, even though he tried. Did more than okay in the hilly classics in '03 - '04.

Scarponi and Di Luca are more the climber type, but not Jalabert.

That's all I could think of. Armstrong was already mentioned in a previous post.



Not sure I buy the "it was a very, very different time back then"-type talk. Unless Gilbert - and others - are superhuman.
 
F

FeyRRR

BANNED
May 4, 2011
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Tour is out of his reach, but the Vuelta is within his reach IMO. There are less mountains, but steeper. But if you look at his performance on the Mur de Huy he won't have any problems with climbing them. Only problem is:can he handle threek weeks?
 
zapata

zapata

Jul 19, 2009
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therealtimshady said:
gilbert is a great rider but he needs to stop chasing the worlds only each year - you cant bank your season on one race that the majority of riders dont really care about
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what? what do you mean? i don't understand any of that.
 
F

Franklin

May 26, 2009
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You guys are just to funny.

There are a slew of riders like Gilbert winning GT's later in their career... they are named in this thread :cool:

Kelly, Jalabert, Armstrong, Valverde, Di Luca, Casagrande. And we have the oddballs as Vino, Bugno and Cunego which fall square between Classics and GT's.

Even the claims of his horrible TT are being shot down by past results... as a non specialist he held his own.

So if he gets older, gains endurance, looses punch... why not win a GT? What makes this so "implausible"? It has been done before quite a few times!

I'm not saying it will happen... but you guys are way to fast on this one.
 
Parrulo

Parrulo

Aug 5, 2010
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the reason why it was done in the past is well over the clinic.

this idea that gilbert can win a GT is pathetic. he is too heavy and can't handle the long climbs. he is in no doubt the best hilly classics specialist and one of the 3 best classic riders overall arguably the best. why would he become an average classic rider in order to become an at best average GT "contender"?
even this idea of him wining the vuelta. . . the day gilbert beats some1 like anton on the angliru cycling has officially gone back to the 90's and early 00's

my advice: don't be a blind fanboy.

and i would just like to let every1 know that gilbert is one of my favourite riders and i find the way he races absolutely amazing!!!!!
 
El Pistolero

El Pistolero

Jul 16, 2010
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Not every Vuelta has the Angliru in it and Anton usually defeats him self, so that isn't really a problem for Gilbert :p

Of course he's too heavy now.

If he keeps winning classics at this rate than he might be ready for something new in 3 years time or so. We can't know that.
 
F

Franklin

May 26, 2009
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Parrulo said:
the reason why it was done in the past is well over the clinic.

this idea that gilbert can win a GT is pathetic. he is too heavy and can't handle the long climbs. he is in no doubt the best hilly classics specialist and one of the 3 best classic riders overall arguably the best. why would he become an average classic rider in order to become an at best average GT "contender"?
even this idea of him wining the vuelta. . . the day gilbert beats some1 like anton on the angliru cycling has officially gone back to the 90's and early 00's

my advice: don't be a blind fanboy.

and i would just like to let every1 know that gilbert is one of my favourite riders and i find the way he races absolutely amazing!!!!!
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Ah yes, Armstrong, Valverde and Di Luca were 10 years ago :rolleyes:

I'm sorry, but denying the minute possibility out of hand is just being blind.

And if blood doping/Epo is on the retreat (*sure*) we can look to the 80-ies where we see a guy called Kelly. It's not Epo that made conversions like these possible. In fact in the past Classic and GT riders were rather mingled.

Classic specialist with a punch to GT conversion is a regular occurrence. It happened in the past, no reason it to think it won't happen again.
 
Parrulo

Parrulo

Aug 5, 2010
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El Pistolero said:
Not every Vuelta has the Angliru in it and Anton usually defeats him self, so that isn't really a problem for Gilbert :p

Of course he's too heavy now.
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you know what i mean.

every year the vuelta has at least a couple of decently difficult stages and a couple guys who are actually strong. i know you love gilbert pisti but even you have to admit that there is no way he can win a GT. besides if he loses weight he would become a much lesser classic rider. . . .
 
Dekker_Tifosi

Dekker_Tifosi

Mar 13, 2009
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Franklin said:
You guys are just to funny.

There are a slew of riders like Gilbert winning GT's later in their career... they are named in this thread :cool:

Kelly, Jalabert, Armstrong, Valverde, Di Luca, Casagrande. And we have the oddballs as Vino, Bugno and Cunego which fall square between Classics and GT's.

Even the claims of his horrible TT are being shot down by past results... as a non specialist he held his own.

So if he gets older, gains endurance, looses punch... why not win a GT? What makes this so "implausible"? It has been done before quite a few times!

I'm not saying it will happen... but you guys are way to fast on this one.
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Mainly because of the same reason Bettini never pulled it off.

It took Gilbert years and years to become the best. Only since 2009 did he finally do well at hilly classics. Before that he was not good enough.
He is now 28 and now at his best at the classics, took him 7/8 years since he became pro.

Turning into a GT racer now is too late imho.
Armstrong was already world champion at age 21 and a classics ace from very young age.
Gilbert was good enough to win 1.1 French races and Omloop het Nieuwsblad and that's it, until 2009.
 
El Pistolero

El Pistolero

Jul 16, 2010
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Must not have been watching Milan-San Remo in 2005-2007. Almost won in 2007. I know it's not a hilly classic, but to escape on the Poggio after a long race does say you're at your best in the hills.

+ he was in the final of the world championships in 2007 finishing inside the top 10.

I just don't get why people seem to think Gilbert popped up in 2009. He was showing massive potential from a young age already. Lot's more than TGBM.
 
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